You do.
Is that why you avoid quoting the Christian Bible?
Define "trinitarian", can you?
Are you sending your neighbors to Hell?
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I don’t. See Psalm 110:1.
I don’t avoid quoting the Bible.
Yes. I was raised trinitarian and taught trinitarianism as an adjunct college professor.
You made a colossal error when you expressed your opinion about Genesis 1. Two persons isn’t three persons.
Quote it.
Prove it.
You should have stayed home and read your Bible.
Then why don't you correct me??? Your beliefs are opinions of others that you like.
Is it necessary for me to quote it for you? Does the Bible you use not contain it?
Anyone who cares to search my posts, even posts in this very thread within the past 14 hours, will see that I’m vindicated and you’re exposed. Why would you do that to yourself?
See above.
I used scripture and the assistance of trinitarians to correct you.
It's easy. Try it.
And they will see how you avoid Bible like plague.
What do you think I quote all the time? That's why you reject my comments. I quote Bible!
You use OPINIONS! Not Scripture!
It is easy, and I have -> in this thread and in many others. You stand refuted by that indisputable fact.
They will see that you are a false accuser.
Mostly in this conversation you’ve quoted and misrepresented me.
When I reject your comments it’s primarily for the same reason that the trinitarians I’ve alluded to do.
I commonly use trinitarian commentary in my conversations with those who self-identify as trinitarian. The trinitarian commentaries use scripture - the very same scripture which you and I use.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi everyone
I'm new to the Forum and will appreciate your guidance:
Is the "Christian Apologetics" subforum open to non-Christians as well?
I'm new to the Forum and will appreciate your guidance:
Is the "Christian Apologetics" subforum open to non-Christians as well?
I believe @Nancy can help you with that, Brother,xx
No Scriptures? Of course not.
All you have are opinions! Jesus is God and Hell Fire is EVERLASTING! That's not opinion, that's Bible.
Well, since you avoid Scripture like plague ....
IOW you have ZERO Scripture, just your opinions.
So quote some Scripture for a change.
The destruction is everlasting; the destruction process isn’t.
Once a person has been destroyed in the lake of fire, they cease to exist.
Destruction in the lake of fire is an extermination event. It is the second death from which there is no recovery.
Are you sending your neighbors to hell (Gk. gehenna) -> a place of extermination.
No.
Only the man whom the living God appointed to the task (Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of the living God) has the capability, authority and responsibility to do that.
No.
Only the man whom the living God appointed to the task (Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of the living God) has the capability, authority and responsibility to do that.
“The dullard cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this: though the wicked spout like grass and all evildoers flourish, they are doomed to destruction forever …”
(Psalm 92:6-7, NRSV)
They aren’t doomed to forever being burned with fire and eaten by worms. They are doomed to destruction. The effect of destruction is forever. The fire consumes; the worm devours. Once they are destroyed it is over. They will never live again.
Contrast this with the death which everyone is appointed once to experience. The only way back to life for the dead is resurrection. Just as the Messiah was resurrected back to life from the realm of the dead (Heb. sheol; Gk. hades) so too will all who die the first death be resurrected back to life - some to be rewarded with receiving the life of the age to come, which is unending; some only briefly, to be judged and cast alive into the lake of fire where they will be destroyed.
(Psalm 92:6-7, NRSV)
They aren’t doomed to forever being burned with fire and eaten by worms. They are doomed to destruction. The effect of destruction is forever. The fire consumes; the worm devours. Once they are destroyed it is over. They will never live again.
Contrast this with the death which everyone is appointed once to experience. The only way back to life for the dead is resurrection. Just as the Messiah was resurrected back to life from the realm of the dead (Heb. sheol; Gk. hades) so too will all who die the first death be resurrected back to life - some to be rewarded with receiving the life of the age to come, which is unending; some only briefly, to be judged and cast alive into the lake of fire where they will be destroyed.
“See, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who revere my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall. And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.”
(Malachi 4:1-3, NRSV)
The imagery of destruction here is ashes -> the effect of a person being burned up, consumed by fire, taken out of existence.
(Malachi 4:1-3, NRSV)
The imagery of destruction here is ashes -> the effect of a person being burned up, consumed by fire, taken out of existence.
Hello Pancho,
You may read and reply in the Christian forums but you will not be able to make a "thread" unless in the un-orthadox section.
Welcome to the forums!
“Do not fret because of the wicked; do not be envious of wrongdoers, for they will soon fade like the grass, and wither like the green herb.”
(Psalm 37:1-2, NRSV)
”For the wicked will be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.”
(Psalm 37:9)
”Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look deligently for their place, they will not be there.”
(Psalm 37:10)
”But the wicked perish, and the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish - like smoke they vanish away.”
(Psalm 37:20)
”for those blessed by the LORD shall inherit the land, but those cursed by him shall be cut off.”
(Psalm 37:22)
”Wait for the LORD, and keep to his way, and he will exalt you to inherit the land; you will look on the destruction of the wicked.”
(Psalm 37:34)
”But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed; the posterity of the wicked shall be cut off.”
(Psalm 37:38)
(Psalm 37:1-2, NRSV)
”For the wicked will be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.”
(Psalm 37:9)
”Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look deligently for their place, they will not be there.”
(Psalm 37:10)
”But the wicked perish, and the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish - like smoke they vanish away.”
(Psalm 37:20)
”for those blessed by the LORD shall inherit the land, but those cursed by him shall be cut off.”
(Psalm 37:22)
”Wait for the LORD, and keep to his way, and he will exalt you to inherit the land; you will look on the destruction of the wicked.”
(Psalm 37:34)
”But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed; the posterity of the wicked shall be cut off.”
(Psalm 37:38)
“Therefore, as the tongue of fire devours the stubble; and as dry grass sinks down in the flame, so their root will become rotten, and their blossom go up like dust; for they have rejected the instruction of the LORD of hosts, and they have despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.”
(Isaiah 5:24, NRSV)
Universal salvation is out of the question. So, too, the existence forever of the wicked.
(Isaiah 5:24, NRSV)
Universal salvation is out of the question. So, too, the existence forever of the wicked.
“His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.”
(Matthew 3:12, NRSV)
What happens to chaff that is burned up? It is consumed by the fire, it goes up in smoke, it is reduced to ashes, it ceases to exist.
John the Baptist is using this vivid imagery to convey the future of the wicked.
What is unquenchable fire?
Unquenchable fire is fire that is not extinguished by someone. It is left to complete its destruction of the chaff.
Does the fire that burns the chaff burn forever, thus never in fact destroying the chaff?
No. Once there is no more fuel left for it to consume the fire goes out on its own.
I live in the country, on a moderately wooded plot of land. There are far more trees on my property than there would typically be for someone who is a city dweller. Every Spring I work in the yard, collecting and burning fallen tree branches. I burned a pile of branches a few days ago. While standing by with water to extinguish the fire in case it should happen to begin getting out of control, I watched the fire reduce the branches to smoke and ashes. The fire burned out on its own once there was nothing left to burn.
“The fire was quenchable!” you might object.
It was. I could have quenched it easily, if I had to. There was no one present to prevent me from doing so. If I had been suddenly called away, I would have put the fire out before leaving. I would have returned later to rekindle the fire and complete the task.
Well what then about the fire that the wicked will one day be cast into? Unlike the fire that burned the branches I collected, it is unquenchable.
Why unquenchable? Because no one will be allowed to put it out. The decision will have been made and it is final -> no one will be able to interrupt the consuming flame. There will be no reprieve. The death sentence will be carried out. The fire will complete its work. The wicked will be utterly destroyed.
(Matthew 3:12, NRSV)
What happens to chaff that is burned up? It is consumed by the fire, it goes up in smoke, it is reduced to ashes, it ceases to exist.
John the Baptist is using this vivid imagery to convey the future of the wicked.
What is unquenchable fire?
Unquenchable fire is fire that is not extinguished by someone. It is left to complete its destruction of the chaff.
Does the fire that burns the chaff burn forever, thus never in fact destroying the chaff?
No. Once there is no more fuel left for it to consume the fire goes out on its own.
I live in the country, on a moderately wooded plot of land. There are far more trees on my property than there would typically be for someone who is a city dweller. Every Spring I work in the yard, collecting and burning fallen tree branches. I burned a pile of branches a few days ago. While standing by with water to extinguish the fire in case it should happen to begin getting out of control, I watched the fire reduce the branches to smoke and ashes. The fire burned out on its own once there was nothing left to burn.
“The fire was quenchable!” you might object.
It was. I could have quenched it easily, if I had to. There was no one present to prevent me from doing so. If I had been suddenly called away, I would have put the fire out before leaving. I would have returned later to rekindle the fire and complete the task.
Well what then about the fire that the wicked will one day be cast into? Unlike the fire that burned the branches I collected, it is unquenchable.
Why unquenchable? Because no one will be allowed to put it out. The decision will have been made and it is final -> no one will be able to interrupt the consuming flame. There will be no reprieve. The death sentence will be carried out. The fire will complete its work. The wicked will be utterly destroyed.
Fire isn’t a living creature; worms are. Both were present in the refuse disposal area of Jerusalem in Jesus’ day.
Worms are quite capable of consuming decaying flesh, hence the idiom about the dead being “worm food”.
The fire doesn’t die until it completes its work; neither do worms. This is biblical imagery.
Immortal worms? Fiction.
God alone is immortal (1 Timothy 6:16). Immortality is a gift not given to the wicked, nor to worms.
Worms are quite capable of consuming decaying flesh, hence the idiom about the dead being “worm food”.
The fire doesn’t die until it completes its work; neither do worms. This is biblical imagery.
Immortal worms? Fiction.
God alone is immortal (1 Timothy 6:16). Immortality is a gift not given to the wicked, nor to worms.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi, Rockerduck!
To me, it is good that you place as minimal requirement for avoiding hell one single thing: acknowledging God.
Sounds straightforward, profound and sincere.
Others put forward their own list of criteria, based on very specific theological beliefs or views about Christ.
Now, what do you mean by "acknowledge God"?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Last year when I wrote that, it was about the Gospel reaching the world and it has. If you ask someone on the street today if they believe in God, and they said no. Then you can remind them of all the church's, crosses, Jesus saves signs, billboards, and radio ads, especially during Christmas season, etc., everywhere, and then they would have to "acknowledge" the witness of the bible, God, and Jesus on the Cross to them from all the openly displayed signs all over the world. Then they have no excuse on Judgement Day.
