Ark of the Covenant in Heaven?

[PinSeeker]

This forum certainly has it's share of colorful characters...

Grace and peace to all of you.

 

[face2face]

Yes at that time He appeared UPON the mercy seat. That is news? That does not mean that the wooden box that had a mercy seat was God.

Right, God's presence was there. Later, when the ark was behind the veil in the holy of holies, there was not usually such a cloud. What is your point? Of course God led Israel in the wilderness. Of course the ark symbolized His very presence. The issue in the thread here is not that. The issue is where is that wooden box now?


Right, and what has that got to do with anything in the thread? If the ark was not holy why would God have preserved it in heaven? The ark is not God!
Obviously. That stuff represented things. Shadows of the true and what was to come.
He is no more a wooden seat than He is a bicycle. The box represented Him and His truths. The box and it's parts were not Him.
Interesting point. Jesus is that way. That does not mean Jesus is a little path on the floor of course any more than that He is a box.
Of course it speaks about Jesus. That does not mean Jesus is a part of a wooden box.

"Shall he sprinkle of the blood"

The ark was full of meaning, but it was still a little wooden box! That box's location is the subject of the thread.
So where do you think it is?

The wooden seat is not what came from the grave, and when we get to heaven we will not expect to be greeted by a seat or a box. Period.

No it states explicitly that temple and the ark were not on earth but in heaven. Only AFTER those angels that came from that temple went down to earth and after the tribulation will Jesus be ruling on earth!

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.


The angels that will go to earth with the judgments come out of that temple. It even is named. What temple is it in heaven? The temple of the tabernacle of the testimony

Jesus was the mercy of Good for us. Of course the mercy seat represented that. That does not mean either that there was no wooden box or that there was no Jesus, or that these were the same! John saw the Lamb in heaven and I can inform you He was not a walking little box.


In conclusion Jesus in not a lego or a box or a chair. The box and seat represented Him to ancient Israel.

There is an irony in your OP and your above comments which make your question pointless. I had this argument with Aunty Jane a while back but she couldn't answer the question for fear it would unravel her communities beliefs.

Jeremiah 3:15 is the future work of the Saints toward natural Israel.

Jeremiah 3:16 In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord,

Jeremiah 3:16 •In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord, “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us. They will not call it to mind, remember it, or •miss it. No, that will not be done any more.

Do you know why?

 

[face2face]

Why would hail not be able to exist there? It did not say all the poor citizens of New Jerusalem were mercilessly pelted with giant hail stones! Now maybe we would think that this means on earth, after the angels come out of the temple or etc. There certainly will be that sort of thing on earth in the tribulation. However looking at the scene, it is in heaven. The temple is where? In heaven. The ark was where? In heaven. The angels came out of a temple in heaven. I think that the seriousness of what was starting to happen was amazing. Not something usual. Like a light show with smoke and thunder on a stage on earth somewhat, to show the effect.

The ark is in heaven.
Revelation 11:19

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

So we might discuss where the earthquake and etc were, but the temple was in heaven and the ark was in the temple!

In other words you dont understand Revelation 11:19 and you cant provide an interpretation. You are a Bible Literalist...and can't be helped I'm sorry.

 

[face2face]

In conclusion Jesus in not a lego or a box or a chair. The box and seat represented Him to ancient Israel.

Jesus is the true mercy seat end of story.

 

[dad]

There is an irony in your OP and your above comments which make your question pointless. I had this argument with Aunty Jane a while back but she couldn't answer the question for fear it would unravel her communities beliefs.

Jeremiah 3:15 is the future work of the Saints toward natural Israel.

Jeremiah 3:16 In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord,

Jeremiah 3:16 •In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord, “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us. They will not call it to mind, remember it, or •miss it. No, that will not be done any more.

Do you know why?

Those are people on earth. The temple of the ark of the testimony was where? Heaven. The ark does not cease to exist because some folks down on earth have a different way to worship than they used to many thousands of years ago! Not sure what point you thought you had?

 

[dad]

In other words you dont understand Revelation 11:19 and you cant provide an interpretation. You are a Bible Literalist...and can't be helped I'm sorry.

No, in other words I will not allow you to wave away heaven or that temple mentioned in heaven, or the ark mentioned in that temple in heaven.

 

[dad]

Jesus is the true mercy seat end of story.

Exodus 25:17

And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
Exodus 25:18

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Exodus 25:19

And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exodus 25:20

And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

They were told to make a box representing stuff in the heavens. End of story. Jesus was not two cubits and a half made of gold with graven statues of angels on each end!

God ordered the mercy seat on the ark to be made by men. God was not made by men, you have that backwards!

 

[face2face]

Those are people on earth. The temple of the ark of the testimony was where? Heaven. The ark does not cease to exist because some folks down on earth have a different way to worship than they used to many thousands of years ago! Not sure what point you thought you had?

Jeremiah 3:15-16

Why do the Israelite's no longer bring the Ark of the Covenant to mind?
This is not a hard question!

 

[face2face]

No, in other words I will not allow you to wave away heaven or that temple mentioned in heaven, or the ark mentioned in that temple in heaven.

not waving it away - interpretation is the key.
Your literal approach is incorrect.

 

[face2face]

Exodus 25:17

And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
Exodus 25:18

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Exodus 25:19

And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exodus 25:20

And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

They were told to make a box representing stuff in the heavens. End of story. Jesus was not two cubits and a half made of gold with graven statues of angels on each end!

God ordered the mercy seat on the ark to be made by men. God was not made by men, you have that backwards!

Talking with you is likened to Jesus speaking to Nicodemus. The Mercy Seat is an anti-type of the Lord Jesus Christ! He represents its meaning fully.

 

[face2face]

Those are people on earth. The temple of the ark of the testimony was where? Heaven. The ark does not cease to exist because some folks down on earth have a different way to worship than they used to many thousands of years ago! Not sure what point you thought you had?

If you can't interpret the prophecy in Jeremiah 3:15-16 you will have no idea why the Israelites no longer think about the Ark - your OP is a waste of everyones time as the prophecy is clear.

 

[dad]

Jeremiah 3:15-16

Why do the Israelite's no longer bring the Ark of the Covenant to mind?
This is not a hard question!

Answered already. It is not part of the worship at that time so why would they? Jesus will be here then, so there is no need for a box to symbolise His presence.

 

[dad]

not waving it away - interpretation is the key.
Your literal approach is incorrect.

I know you are but what am i?

 

[dad]

Talking with you is likened to Jesus speaking to Nicodemus. The Mercy Seat is an anti-type of the Lord Jesus Christ! He represents its meaning fully.

No one asked what it represented, but where it is. Focus.

 

[dad]

If you can't interpret the prophecy in Jeremiah 3:15-16 you will have no idea why the Israelites no longer think about the Ark - your OP is a waste of everyones time as the prophecy is clear.

You forgot to post a point there. What is your point? The ark obviously is not used in a temple then...so what? How does that even address where it is now?

 

[face2face]

You forgot to post a point there. What is your point? The ark obviously is not used in a temple then...so what? How does that even address where it is now?

The point is you have failed to interpret Revelation 11:19 and you have failed to read the prophecy of Jeremiah 3:15-16.

If you understood Jeremiah 3:15-16 you would have no interest in asking the OP question.

When will Jeremiah 3:15-16 be fulfilled?
What is it teaching the Saints?

F2F

 

[dad]

The point is you have failed to interpret Revelation 11:19 and you have failed to read the prophecy of Jeremiah 3:15-16.

If you understood Jeremiah 3:15-16 you would have no interest in asking the OP question.

When will Jeremiah 3:15-16 be fulfilled?
What is it teaching the Saints?

F2F

Why post repetitive word salads? Your opinion does not stand in the face of the bible. The mercy seat was fashioned by man out of gold etc. It does not matter that the ceremonies of people on earth will not involve the ark of the covenant in the future. I have no idea why you might imagine it would, or more importantly, how it even relates to the topic of where the ark is.

To recap then, I think your position is as follows, and do correct anything if it is wrong. You think Jesus is actually the mercy seat. You do not believe the ark of the covenant exists in heaven and apparently have no comment on where else you think it is hiding! Is that right so far?

Since you appear to be waving away the reality of the ark and temple in heaven, it is fair to ask a few questions. Do you believe in the Rapture before the wrath of God and a final seven year time of trouble including the Great Tribulation? Do you believe Jesus will return and actually rule for 1000 years on earth? besides vague and general doubts from you, I see no clear position or addressing the OP here.

 

[face2face]

Why post repetitive word salads? Your opinion does not stand in the face of the bible. The mercy seat was fashioned by man out of gold etc. It does not matter that the ceremonies of people on earth will not involve the ark of the covenant in the future. I have no idea why you might imagine it would, or more importantly, how it even relates to the topic of where the ark is.

It relates...the issue is clear enough for one to read the text and learn from it!

To recap then, I think your position is as follows, and do correct anything if it is wrong. You think Jesus is actually the mercy seat. You do not believe the ark of the covenant exists in heaven and apparently have no comment on where else you think it is hiding! Is that right so far?

I don't think Jesus is "the" Mercy Seat, the Bible comprehensively teaches that he IS the Mercy Seat through which Grace and Forgiveness is administered. There is no other name given among men by which we can be saved! The box as you call it was to lead Israel to Christ - it taught many lessons about the Son of Man.

No, the Ark is not in Heaven and still you dont understand why that is the case after all I have written about it's symbology and why the Jews will no longer think of it at all in the future upon Christs return (hint hint!)

You just have to read the prophecy for yourself...its super clear.

Since you appear to be waving away the reality of the ark and temple in heaven, it is fair to ask a few questions. Do you believe in the Rapture before the wrath of God and a final seven year time of trouble including the Great Tribulation? Do you believe Jesus will return and actually rule for 1000 years on earth? besides vague and general doubts from you, I see no clear position or addressing the OP here.

Let me step you through the prophecy because it's clear you are resisting it.

Jeremiah 3:15-16

The ark and the 1st covenant in the millennial era (1000 years) will have no significance (Hebrews 9:1-12), there will be a better ark and an eternal covenant which is in Christ when he returns to rule as per John 2:20-21 Revelation 11:14-19; Jeremiah 31:33 and on and on and on....) , the ark of the new covenant will not be captured by the Philistines (symbolically!) due to the sins of Israel. Jeremiah 3:17 Israel and the Gentile nations will return to the Lord; Jeremiah 3:17-18 which involves the reunion of Judah and Israel is predicted as per Jeremiah 50:4-5; Hosea 1:11);

Lesson for you dad!

If Israel in the Kingdom age will totally forget the Ark of the Covenant because Christ will be in their midst why on earth are you concerned about it today? You have absolutely no basis for caring at all - no justification whatsoever for even interest sake is going against the spirit of Jeremiah 3:15-16.

Just to spell it out so clear that you in all you wisdom cannot argue or explain away.

Jeremiah 3:15-16

In those days, (post return of Christ) your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord,

1. “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us.
2. They will not call it to mind
3. remember it,
4. or miss it.
5. No, that will not be done any more!

(Why would you long for a box when you have the real thing in your presence?)

At that time the city of Jerusalem will be called the Lord’s throne.

So points 1-5 are reasons why this topic is a waste of everyone's time.

Jerusalem to date has not been called the Lord's throne and wont be till the King of Israel is sitting upon his Father Davids throne. Luke 1:32

Now we still have the symbology in Revelation 11:19 which the true Saints in their day knew and understood. They could decipher the imagery very clearly.

For another post.

F2F

@Aunty Jane this lesson was one for you to learn and understand! (Christ to reign on earth not from Heaven)

 

[dad]

It relates...the issue is clear enough for one to read the text and learn from it!

It is true then you cannot make a clear point. Your claim that Jesus is the mercy seat is laughable. He is not the staffs that carried the ark either, nor the gold angels on it, nor the lid etc etc etc

I don't think Jesus is "the" Mercy Seat, the Bible comprehensively teaches that he IS the Mercy Seat through which Grace and Forgiveness is administered.

The verse that says Jesus is literally a mercy seat in the ark of the covenant? You seem to be literally making stuff up.

There is no other name given among men by which we can be saved!

Obviously. Why interject that verse into a conversation about where the ark is? Try to have some point.

The box as you call it was to lead Israel to Christ - it taught many lessons about the Son of Man.

Yes it did. That does not tell us that the temple in heaven was not really there or that the ark was not really in it!

No, the Ark is not in Heaven and still you dont understand why that is the case after all I have written about it's symbology and why the Jews will no longer think of it at all in the future upon Christs return (hint hint!)

The bible says it is. Your vague opinion and claims it is not are worthless.

You just have to read the prophecy for yourself...its super clear.

Let me step you through the prophecy because it's clear you are resisting it.

Jeremiah 3:15-16

The ark and the 1st covenant in the millennial era (1000 years) will have no significance (Hebrews 9:1-12)

So what? That does not mean it is in heaven. Those on earth will not need a box to represent His presence, He will he HERE!

, there will be a better ark and an eternal covenant which is in Christ when he returns to rule as per John 2:20-21 Revelation 11:14-19; Jeremiah 31:33 and on and on and on....) , the ark of the new covenant will not be captured by the Philistines (symbolically!)

Try not to spam verses as if they supported you. The first verse for example, John 2, 20-21 simply was about how Jesus would raise His body from death after three days. His temple. Our bodies are the temple of the holy ghost of course. That did not mean Jesus was a house or a building or a temple. He was a man. Nor does that say there is no temple containing the old ark of the covenant in heaven.

due to the sins of Israel. Jeremiah 3:17 Israel and the Gentile nations will return to the Lord; Jeremiah 3:17-18 which involves the reunion of Judah and Israel is predicted as per Jeremiah 50:4-5; Hosea 1:11);

Have you some point there?? Of course the remnant of Israel will return to Him one day. So? How does that relate to where the ark is? Do you think it is lost?

Lesson for you dad!

The only lesson so far is that you can neither address the topic or issues, nor make a clear point.

If Israel in the Kingdom age will totally forget the Ark of the Covenant because Christ will be in their midst why on earth are you concerned about it today?

The bible tells us where it is why would the bible 'be concerned'? It is interesting why not?

You have absolutely no basis for caring at all - no justification whatsoever for even interest sake is going against the spirit of Jeremiah 3:15-16.

What self righteous diatribe. People can be interested in whatever they like! The bible talks a lot about the ark. It is a fauir question to ask where it is. Where (for the twentieth time or whatever now) do you think it is????

Just to spell it out so clear that you in all you wisdom cannot argue or explain away.

Jeremiah 3:15-16

In those days, (post return of Christ) your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord,

1. “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us.

Why would people on earth do that?? Jesus is there@! Why would they need an ark?? Why pretend that helps you?

At that time the city of Jerusalem will be called the Lord’s throne.

Obviously on earth it is His throne since we rule from there. So what has that got to do with where the ark is?

So points 1-5 are reasons why this topic is a waste of everyone's time.

That is false. No one said that on earth people would need the ark here after Jesus returns! What a foolish strawman argument.

Jerusalem to date has not been called the Lord's throne and wont be till the King of Israel is sitting upon his Father Davids throne. Luke 1:32

Obviously. So..?

Now we still have the symbology in Revelation 11:19 which the true Saints in their day knew and understood. They could decipher the imagery very clearly.

What nonsense. Some allusion to saints agreeing with you when you flat out denied the bible when it says the ark was in heaven.

 

[face2face]

It is true then you cannot make a clear point. Your claim that Jesus is the mercy seat is laughable. He is not the staffs that carried the ark either, nor the gold angels on it, nor the lid etc etc etc
The verse that says Jesus is literally a mercy seat in the ark of the covenant? You seem to be literally making stuff up.

Obviously. Why interject that verse into a conversation about where the ark is? Try to have some point.
Yes it did. That does not tell us that the temple in heaven was not really there or that the ark was not really in it!

The bible says it is. Your vague opinion and claims it is not are worthless.



So what? That does not mean it is in heaven. Those on earth will not need a box to represent His presence, He will he HERE!


Try not to spam verses as if they supported you. The first verse for example, John 2, 20-21 simply was about how Jesus would raise His body from death after three days. His temple. Our bodies are the temple of the holy ghost of course. That did not mean Jesus was a house or a building or a temple. He was a man. Nor does that say there is no temple containing the old ark of the covenant in heaven.
Have you some point there?? Of course the remnant of Israel will return to Him one day. So? How does that relate to where the ark is? Do you think it is lost?
The only lesson so far is that you can neither address the topic or issues, nor make a clear point.
The bible tells us where it is why would the bible 'be concerned'? It is interesting why not?

What self righteous diatribe. People can be interested in whatever they like! The bible talks a lot about the ark. It is a fauir question to ask where it is. Where (for the twentieth time or whatever now) do you think it is????

Just to spell it out so clear that you in all you wisdom cannot argue or explain away.
Why would people on earth do that?? Jesus is there@! Why would they need an ark?? Why pretend that helps you?


Obviously on earth it is His throne since we rule from there. So what has that got to do with where the ark is?
That is false. No one said that on earth people would need the ark here after Jesus returns! What a foolish strawman argument.

Obviously. So..?

What nonsense. Some allusion to saints agreeing with you when you flat out denied the bible when it says the ark was in heaven.

Another cloud without water...press on toward the mark leaving you with your hangups on the ark.
Enjoy!