Ark of the Covenant in Heaven?

[face2face]

It would probably be better for you to admit defeat and get on with getting a better understanding of the ark in heaven. It is not relevant to the issue of where the ark is to be looking at all the symbolism of the ark. It did not say the symbolism was in heaven but that a temple was in heaven that contained that ark of the covenant. It is dishonest to pretend that I am wrong in the clear reading of a simple and plain text.
It doesn't matter. There are quakes all over. There is a final great shaking at the end of the trib as well. But the rumblings and sparks at this big event at a temple do not seem to be any of those. If you claim it is one, be specific.

No, you are wrong that has been well established.
How does the tremendous storm activity relate to the Temple?

 

[dad]

No, you are wrong that has been well established.
How does the tremendous storm activity relate to the Temple?

Look at the verse.

Revelation 11:19

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

So the first part of that verse right up to the colon is talking about heaven. The last part I am not sure. It may refer to God' great power resulting in amazing effects in and around that temple. Or, possibly, it refers to earth where we see that God is now ruling.

Revelation 11:17

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Or possibly the voices and lighting etc could refer to both! The first part is heaven. No great mystery here.

 

[face2face]

Look at the verse.

Revelation 11:19

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

So the first part of that verse right up to the colon is talking about heaven. The last part I am not sure. It may refer to God' great power resulting in amazing effects in and around that temple. Or, possibly, it refers to earth where we see that God is now ruling.

Revelation 11:17

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Or possibly the voices and lighting etc could refer to both! The first part is heaven. No great mystery here.

You need to learn how the imagery is being used. Heaven can be literal and it can be symbolic! How do we know for certain it's symbolic here?
It's obvious really...and we have been over it a number of times.

 

[face2face]

The same applies to Revelation 15:8 - while the origins of what is being revealed begins in Heaven - it's the manifestation of that on earth which is in view.

As a side - those Christians who believe in Heaven going... this verse is a show stopper!

 

[face2face]

Revelation 6:12 is an example of a political earthquake - notice the exclamation "Lo" (AV) suggests it was a surprise to living at that time.

Apocalyptic earthquakes represent political, not natural phenomena. Bible symbology often represents people as "the earth" as per Genesis 6:11; Deuteronomy 32:1; Isaiah 1:2; Isaiah 65:17-18 and so on.... so that it is appropriate that "revolutions" should be represented as earthquakes.

Revelation 11:19 is in a way a Spiritual revolution when the elect and Christ reform the world of sin. Note: NOT just a great earthquake - this event is accompanied by many phenomena!

 

[dad]

You need to learn how the imagery is being used. Heaven can be literal and it can be symbolic! How do we know for certain it's symbolic here?
It's obvious really...and we have been over it a number of times.

Your opinion that what was stated clearly is nothing more than 'imagery' is noted. To be clear, are the thunders and lightning and temple just imagery also?

 

[dad]

The same applies to Revelation 15:8 - while the origins of what is being revealed begins in Heaven - it's the manifestation of that on earth which is in view.

As a side - those Christians who believe in Heaven going... this verse is a show stopper!

Not really. There was a 'do not disturb' sign on God's door basically until the plagues were done. By the way this shows that folks did enter the temple, but that they temporarily was a closure!

 

[dad]

Revelation 6:12 is an example of a political earthquake - notice the exclamation "Lo" (AV) suggests it was a surprise to living at that time.

Not at all, we know from various other places in the bible that the sun does go out and etc. Nothing to do with politics.

Bible symbology often represents people as "the earth" as per Genesis 6:11; Deuteronomy 32:1; Isaiah 1:2; Isaiah 65:17-18 and so on.... so that it is appropriate that "revolutions" should be represented as earthquakes.

[/QUOTE] We are told in prophesy that there will be a great quake in the end, that will level all cities and mountains on earth.

Isaiah 30:25

And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
Ezekiel 38:20

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Revelation 11:19 is in a way a Spiritual revolution when the elect and Christ reform the world of sin.

Wholly made up nonsense.

 

[face2face]

Your opinion that what was stated clearly is nothing more than 'imagery' is noted. To be clear, are the thunders and lightning and temple just imagery also?

Yes, imagery is used because the elect have learned how God communicates and those things hidden within are His secrets.

 

[face2face]

Not at all, we know from various other places in the bible that the sun does go out and etc. Nothing to do with politics.

We are told in prophesy that there will be a great quake in the end, that will level all cities and mountains on earth.

Isaiah 30:25

And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
Ezekiel 38:20

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


Wholly made up nonsense.

It's made up to you because you simply do not understand it... so naturally you will resist.

 

[face2face]

Not really. There was a 'do not disturb' sign on God's door basically until the plagues were done. By the way this shows that folks did enter the temple, but that they temporarily was a closure!

Again, it fits with what Scripture teaches.
Entrance into the Kingdom age will have certain conditions met.

Imagery likened to here Exodus 40:34 and here 1 Kings 8:10.

Revelation 15:8 is teaching you there will be no priestly intercession for the world on a national basis until the judgments are completed (7x). At the conclusion of that time the nations that remain will be invited to worship before the King in Jerusalem, and will find access to the anti typical Most Holy (i.e Mercy seat etc.) the Lord Jesus Christ and the Redeemed as per Zechariah 14:16.

If you have been influenced by Christian exegesis the Revelation will be labyrinth to you, as we have seen with Revelation 11:19 and now I am predicting you will do the same with Revelation 15:8.

You don't have the keys to unlock it and when shown, you reject them!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Your opinion that what was stated clearly is nothing more than 'imagery' is noted. To be clear, are the thunders and lightning and temple just imagery also?

As you can see now it's impossible for there to be earthquakes in Heaven and you now realise it's imagery we are dealing with. While in the future age it's likely a literal Temple will be built and its more than probable the earth will continue to experience such storm and seismic activities clearly you have sufficient intelligence to know that is not what Revelation 11:19 is speaking about.

If in the future if you have imagery you want explained, feel free to text me. As a side I tried showing Aunty Jane the meaning of such imagery and she found refuge in her denomination and their bias interpretations. I expect few here actually want to learn of God - most desire to man-made instruments.

F2F

 

[dad]

Yes, imagery is used because the elect have learned how God communicates and those things hidden within are His secrets.

Wisdom is plain to him that understands. Try not to attempt a holy cover for not believing the bible. The temple was a temple and the ark is the ark and heaven is heaven.

 

[face2face]

Wisdom is plain to him that understands. Try not to attempt a holy cover for not believing the bible. The temple was a temple and the ark is the ark and heaven is heaven.

I should also preface the imagery being adopted in Revelation hearkens back to the literal experiences on earth however now these events are future (unfulfilled) to mean similar occurrences to Exodus 19:16 will happen again...however not through the power of the Angelic Host but through Christ and his Saints i.e. Revelation 11:19 and others passages also. Revelation requires a great deal of understanding other prophetical works before unlocking knowledge. You continue to resist which I get, it makes you vulnerable and no one likes that feeling. If you can get past that there is much to discuss, many details within the text for you to discover. Here is a plain fact for you...it is impossible to interpret the Revelation by a plain reading of the text! Impossible! It requires a true understanding of the entire collection of books to know its mysteries. Hence why special blessings are ascribed to those who labour to understand it.

 

[dad]

Again, it fits with what Scripture teaches.
Entrance into the Kingdom age will have certain conditions met.

Imagery likened to here Exodus 40:34 and here 1 Kings 8:10.

Revelation 15:8 is teaching you there will be no priestly intercession for the world on a national basis until the judgments are completed

No. You can't disbelieve the reality in a ritualistic way using the fact that there is also some symbols used in the bible. He expects us to know the difference. When the bible says an angel or a temple or the ark that is not imagery.

(7x). At the conclusion of that time the nations that remain will be invited to worship before the King in Jerusalem, and will find access to the anti typical Most Holy (i.e Mercy seat etc.) the Lord Jesus Christ and the Redeemed as per Zechariah 14:16.

What nations do after Jesus returns is not the topic.

If you have been influenced by Christian exegesis the Revelation will be labyrinth to you, as we have seen with Revelation 11:19 and now I am predicting you will do the same with Revelation 15:8.

Revelation 15:6

And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Revelation 15:7

And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 15:8

I am not sure what you think you see reading these verses. I see a real God, real angels,real beasts,real plagues, and a a real temple in a real heaven.

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Here is a temple being filled with smoke. It is no use pretending you have some secret higher understanding. You have unbelief. Period.

 

[face2face]

No. You can't disbelieve the reality in a ritualistic way using the fact that there is also some symbols used in the bible. He expects us to know the difference. When the bible says an angel or a temple or the ark that is not imagery.

What nations do after Jesus returns is not the topic.

Revelation 15:6

And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Revelation 15:7

And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 15:8

I am not sure what you think you see reading these verses. I see a real God, real angels,real beasts,real plagues, and a a real temple in a real heaven.



Here is a temple being filled with smoke. It is no use pretending you have some secret higher understanding. You have unbelief. Period.

As a test, when do you believe the completion of the seven judgements will be?
When will the nations gain access to worshiping God?
They are actually really relevant questions!

 

[face2face]

No. You can't disbelieve the reality in a ritualistic way using the fact that there is also some symbols used in the bible. He expects us to know the difference. When the bible says an angel or a temple or the ark that is not imagery.

What nations do after Jesus returns is not the topic.

Revelation 15:6

And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Revelation 15:7

And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 15:8

I am not sure what you think you see reading these verses. I see a real God, real angels,real beasts,real plagues, and a a real temple in a real heaven.



Here is a temple being filled with smoke. It is no use pretending you have some secret higher understanding. You have unbelief. Period.

If you read over your words you will see there is really nothing I can reply to as you are caught between wanting the imagery to be literal but knowing earthquakes cannot happen in Heaven.

You have yourself in a bind.

 

[dad]

As you can see now it's impossible for there to be earthquakes in Heaven and you now realise it's imagery we are dealing with.

I happen to know you are no expert on heaven and what is possible or not there. I already covered that in a previous post. The first part of that verse is in heaven. The rest of the verse after the colon might be a bit of both, but we do not know.

While in the future age it's likely a literal Temple will be built and its more than probable the earth will continue to experience such storm and seismic activities clearly you have sufficient intelligence to know that is not what Revelation 11:19 is speaking about.

No, the setting was heaven. New Jerusalem is 1500 miles across and wide and also high. There are some big buildings there, and a temple does not need to be what you think about. If the Almighty finally rises and stirs and sets in motion the long foretold final events, then I am not at all surprised there is some smoke, lightning flashes,shaking etc at that great moment in heaven. We already know there also will be some of that on earth, so as I say, it could be both, we do not know. The first part of the verse we do know. It is in heaven. Any spiritualizing away is simply a mask for unbelief.

 

[dad]

As a test, when do you believe the completion of the seven judgements will be?
When will the nations gain access to worshiping God?
They are actually really relevant questions!

There is no use obfuscating. The topic is the ark and where it is. You have waved away the verse that tells us. You disbelieve there is a temple in heaven with the ark as we are told in the verse. Fine. I think you stated you think the ark is hidden somewhere on earth. We can disagree.

 

[dad]

If you read over your words you will see there is really nothing I can reply to as you are caught between wanting the imagery to be literal but knowing earthquakes cannot happen in Heaven.

You have yourself in a bind.

It did not say there was some heaven wide earthquake. The scene was a certain temple in heaven. Maybe you think there cannot be silence in heaven either?