“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (2 Corinthians 3:5–6) (ESV)
Assurance of salvation:
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Marymog
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Hi,
It seems you are saying that we are saved by faith/belief alone?
You started out at Romans 10:10 but left out Romans 10:9 (and Luke 12:8 which relates to it) which puts that verse in CONTEXT: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth.......thou shalt be saved.
Isn't confessing with our mouth something we DO???
How does Romans 2:6, James 2:24, Matthew 19:16-19 and Matthew 12:36-37 fit into your theory?
Also, did you know that your belief has only been taught for 500 years?
Curious Mary
It doesn't depend only on that particular chapter.
I'm talking about ALL covenants. No covenant ever abolished the previous one.
It could only make it better or add to it or take something away or change it somehow...but never abolished.
My point was that there is no such covenant as a Covenant of Grace.
People use this expression to mean the New Covenant, as if God showed no grace in the O.T. or as if He showed no mercy or love for His creatures. I cannot think of one covenant that was made without God's love for mankind included in it.
This is not true.
“Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.” (Galatians 3:21–23) (KJV 1900)
false again. We are under the new covenant. There is no rapture until the last day following the resurrection.
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17) (KJV 1900)
Yes I agree that Jesus came to refresh a covenant that was very old, in existence since the creation of Adam and Eve. It existence seems to be hidden from us, but many examples of this covenant are given in the scriptures and, in fact, it is often found embedded within other covenants established or entered into much later by God.
You are again ignoring Scripture (which I posted) and continuing to insist that your FALSE DOCTRINE is true. Repeating a false doctrine a hundred times does not make it true.
So kindly go back to square one and ask yourself why the New Testament is called the New Covenant/Testament IF IT HAS NOT EVEN COME INTO EXISTENCE. When people try to nullify what God and Christ affirm, they are treading on dangerous ground.
But this particular Gr word is used that way in the New Testament. It is also used in Titus 2:4 where it is speaking of the newer women in the faith.
It has embedded in this Greek word the same Greek Root, G:3501, which is also found embedded in another 6 Greek words. It is the context of this particular Greek Word that dictates that it should be understood to mean "Newer".
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
There is only the NEW and EVERLASTING Covenant...
The one God intended from Genesis 3:15.[/QUOTE]
Matthew 26:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
This is not the new covenant stated in Jeremiah in Hebrews. That is limited to the houses of Judah and Israel. as was the Mosaic covenant.
And if you read the Old Testament prophecies connected to it, animal sacrifices return as does the physical temple, the priesthood, etc.
Where is your scriptural backing for your claim?
The one God intended from Genesis 3:15.[/QUOTE]
Matthew 26:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
This is not the new covenant stated in Jeremiah in Hebrews. That is limited to the houses of Judah and Israel. as was the Mosaic covenant.
And if you read the Old Testament prophecies connected to it, animal sacrifices return as does the physical temple, the priesthood, etc.
Where is your scriptural backing for your claim?
Matthew 26:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
This is not the new covenant stated in Jeremiah in Hebrews. That is limited to the houses of Judah and Israel. as was the Mosaic covenant.
And if you read the Old Testament prophecies connected to it, animal sacrifices return as does the physical temple, the priesthood, etc.
Where is your scriptural backing for your claim?[/QUOTE]
Scriptural backing?
Are you serious?
Have you studied the covenants from the Edenic to the New?
No scriptural backing necessary... verses are built-into every covenant from the first one to the last one.
Anyway, who knows if animal sacrifices will return...I DO KNOW that there are NONE right now. And most probably will not be since most of this world is becoming God-less.
Also, the New Covenant is for everyone. This info will be found in the Davidic Covenant. Which I'm sorry I can't get into right now so I'll just sign off.
It does state, however, that THIS NEW COVENANT is for EVERY NATION.
Do you not care to share God?
Ephesians 4:4-6
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
No, you are ignoring Scripture unless you believe in replacement theology.
Where does it say anything but that this is future? And not to the Gentiles?
You would have the church and covenant Israel coexisting. Two covenants active at the same time.
Hebrews is to the Jews, not Gentiles.
It did not promise immediate implementation anymore than God promised Abraham the instant existence of Israel.
The Jews understood this, why can't you?
It did not confuse the apostles. They worked to build the church for everyone, not to rebuild Israel as the nation of God.
God divorced Israel for their apostasy and turn to the Gentiles. He annulled the Mosaic covenant, fulfilling part of this prophecy.
Christ died and resurrected for everyone, not just use.
I'm not the one with the problem here, you are.
Hebrews 8:6-13 New International Version (NIV)
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and saida]">[a]:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”b]">[b]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Scriptural backing?
Are you serious?
Have you studied the covenants from the Edenic to the New?
No scriptural backing necessary... verses are built-into every covenant from the first one to the last one.
Anyway, who knows if animal sacrifices will return...I DO KNOW that there are NONE right now. And most probably will not be since most of this world is becoming God-less.
Also, the New Covenant is for everyone. This info will be found in the Davidic Covenant. Which I'm sorry I can't get into right now so I'll just sign off.
It does state, however, that THIS NEW COVENANT is for EVERY NATION.
Davidic covenant was to David to be fulfilled through Israel, not Gentiles.
Nor did it have anything to do with what's being discussed here.
Do you not care to share God?
Ephesians 4:4-6[/QUOTE]
Yes I'm absolutely serious about you presenting scriptural backing, which you haven't and cannot.
I studied all the covenants.
The Bible knows animal sacrifices will return. To claim otherwise is to say the Bible was a lie and undependable.
Yes most of the world is on the ungodly. That is why the saints will be rapture and Israel restored his covenant nation under a new covenant.
No, the new covenant is only for the houses of Israel and Judah. Read what I posted last post.
The Edenic covenant was conditional. Adam failed to keep the conditions.
It was to him, not you.
The Davidic covenant was with David to be fulfilled through Israel.
Yes I'm absolutely serious about you presenting scriptural backing, which you haven't and cannot.
I studied all the covenants.
The Bible knows animal sacrifices will return. To claim otherwise is to say the Bible was a lie and undependable.
Yes most of the world is on the ungodly. That is why the saints will be rapture and Israel restored his covenant nation under a new covenant.
No, the new covenant is only for the houses of Israel and Judah. Read what I posted last post.
The Edenic covenant was conditional. Adam failed to keep the conditions.
It was to him, not you.
The Davidic covenant was with David to be fulfilled through Israel.[/QUOTE]
The Davidic Covenant was a foreshadowing of Christ.
It was unconditional and depended solely on God to fulfill it.
1 Chronicles 29:22 shows that the rule of God and the rule of David is united.
God promised land to Abraham.
To David He promised that his seed would reign over the nation of Israel forever.
In fact, when Jesus first appeared in His ministry, He went to His Jewish brothers.
One of the provisions of the Davidic Covenant is that his House, Throne and Kingdom will reign forever; just as Jesus' kingdom is reigning now and forever.
Throne also refers to royal authority..which Jesus had.
Abraham was to be the Father of many...
David's was to be the kingdom of all...
The New Covenant invited all who wanted to join it.
It was God's desire from the beginning to invite all into His kingdom.
Mathew 22, the Marriage Feast.
ALL were called from the streets to join in the banquet.
John 10:16
Jesus also had other sheep which must join the fold.
God revealed Himself through the Hebrew people, but we know that in spirit, God revealed Himself to ALL manking.
YOU cannot claim God for your own.
Romans 1:19-20
Yes I'm absolutely serious about you presenting scriptural backing, which you haven't and cannot.
I studied all the covenants.
The Bible knows animal sacrifices will return. To claim otherwise is to say the Bible was a lie and undependable.
Yes most of the world is on the ungodly. That is why the saints will be rapture and Israel restored his covenant nation under a new covenant.
No, the new covenant is only for the houses of Israel and Judah. Read what I posted last post.
The Edenic covenant was conditional. Adam failed to keep the conditions.
It was to him, not you.
The Davidic covenant was with David to be fulfilled through Israel.[/QUOTE]
P.S.
How could you possibly ask for scripture to back covenants if you've studied them and now how deep this study is? Neither you nor I could know all there is to know about this subject.
Also, what verses say that animal sacrifices will return when there are veses stating that God does not want sacrifice but our heart?
Psalm 51:16-17
1 Samuel 15:22
Romans 12:1
Hebrews 10:1-4
and more.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The Davidic Covenant was a foreshadowing of Christ.
It was unconditional and depended solely on God to fulfill it.
1 Chronicles 29:22 shows that the rule of God and the rule of David is united.
God promised land to Abraham.
To David He promised that his seed would reign over the nation of Israel forever.
In fact, when Jesus first appeared in His ministry, He went to His Jewish brothers.
One of the provisions of the Davidic Covenant is that his House, Throne and Kingdom will reign forever; just as Jesus' kingdom is reigning now and forever.
Throne also refers to royal authority..which Jesus had.
Abraham was to be the Father of many...
David's was to be the kingdom of all...
The New Covenant invited all who wanted to join it.
It was God's desire from the beginning to invite all into His kingdom.
Mathew 22, the Marriage Feast.
ALL were called from the streets to join in the banquet.
John 10:16
Jesus also had other sheep which must join the fold.
God revealed Himself through the Hebrew people, but we know that in spirit, God revealed Himself to ALL manking.
YOU cannot claim God for your own.
Romans 1:19-20[/QUOTE]
The Body of Christ is composed of believing Israel and the church. They are coheirs. But that is a spiritual issue, not a physical one.
There are also those who belong to him from the age of conscience, who were not under either covenant.
You trying to have it every which way. There were times when there was no earthly covenant, there were times where there were neither Jews or Gentile on the earth yet,
Israel is the physical descendents of Abraham through Isaac. Israel is a nation,
The Mosaic covenant was with the physical nation of Israel.
Abraham was the father of many nations. But God chose to work through only one nation, Israel, in the old and new covenants.
David's throne was to rule over Israel. Christ will sit on the throne in the MK and will rule the world as its conqueror headquartered in Jerusalem.
God makes a path for all who want to find him. But that path is not the same for every individual.
The marriage supper illustrates the future marriage supper of the Lamb. Many of the guests would not attend, so he went to the streets to find other guests.
After the rapture, there will be a marriage supper of Christ to the church. Israel will be the guests and the bride will be from all nations.
But it is a spiritual event, in our resurrected bodies we will be neither male or female, Jew or Gentile. Hopefully you recognize that is currently not the case. We are very much Jew or Gentile and male or female.
You have a lot of study you need to do. Which I feel is worth it.
The new covenant is with the physical nation of Israel and Judah reunited as a single nation.
I don't claim God for my own, but I sure listen to what he says, which you do not in this issue.
Do you believe in replacement theology, meaning the church is now Israel? I can see no other reason for the claims you're making.
The Bible says under the new covenant there will be animal sacrifices. You say no, therefore you believe Israel will not return the church will continue with no end in sight,
When I asked you to provide Scriptures to defend what you said you said no. They were not needed.
When you make a claim must be willing to prove it in the church or in the world.
So again, post your verse proof.
P.S.
How could you possibly ask for scripture to back covenants if you've studied them and now how deep this study is? Neither you nor I could know all there is to know about this subject.
Also, what verses say that animal sacrifices will return when there are veses stating that God does not want sacrifice but our heart?
Psalm 51:16-17
1 Samuel 15:22
Romans 12:1
Hebrews 10:1-4
and more.[/QUOTE]
John's First Epistle has wonderful content about the believer's assurance of salvation!
bbyrd009
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