Attention Everyone

[Lapidem]

There is a distinction between being spiritual and being a Christian.
So, unbelievers can absolutely be spiritual, as that is something you can do for yourself.
But for an unbeliever to become a Christian, is not something they can do for themselves.

Being "spiritual" for example, can mean to be "pagan", and that is what you become, by following this sect or cult, and adhering to that religious spirituality.
Whereas Christianity, is God Himself causing you to become something Spiritual, that you can't cause for yourself.

Another way to think of it is this..
Religion is man made.
Christianity is God made.

I will happily debate this with you. But this thread is not the place.

 

[amadeus]

So you believe shielding the "babies" from the views of others and from all the wider world perspectives that are reality, is a good thing for them?

I can't agree. It's conditioning. It's purposeful censoring of wider perspectives that everyone should be free to hear and explore in their own way.

When a baby is 3 months old, how much of those wider perspectives of which you speak would he be able to understand? When he is 6 years old? When he is 11 years old? And so forth?

You call it censoring but you are presuming that the wider perspectives the world of men offers might be better than what God offers. Your questions and statements show to me your own deafness and blindness in the things of God. There are some things I will not allow in my home. And there should also be some things that should not be allowed in a church setting or on a Christian forum such as this one. We do the best we can hopefully to lead or protect anyone younger [spiritually] than we are. That is being a good parent or a good minister of God.

That you are where you are may be OK for the world outside, but it is also the reason you are not making rules for us.

 

[amadeus]

@Lapidem

Amadeus said: Would it be cowardly for you to leave your pre-school aged children in the care of strangers?

Lapidem said:Not necessarily no. But it's totally cowardly to put your babies through forced religious conditioning throughout the formative years of life which are then subsequently extremely hard to shake off. It's fear. It's the fear that if you were to wait until they were old enough to make an informed decision, to analyse, question and rationally appraise, that they might then not agree with your doctrine. There's an entire debate to be had on this topic.

What does any parent do to their children when they put them into any public school? What kind of brain washing goes on there? When my own children were young they went to Christian schools or we home schooled them. That was to help them become like me and their mother and hopefully like God. Why would you presume I would have hidden from them what was happening in the world? Their mother and I had lived in the world a long time already when the children came into our lives.

Amadeus said: Not being a believer why would you presume it would be crazy to a Christian believer?

Lapidem said: Why do you assume I am not a believer? Just because I don't label myself a Christian? Have you any idea how ridiculous and pious such a suggestion is? There are millions of believers. They don't need to follow your personal interpretation of what a believer is. And I didn't suggest that it would be crazy to a Christian. I suggested that the general notion of debating worldly topics whilst purposely excluding the views of other people or demographics is crazy, which it is.

I was speaking to you based on what you have revealed and what you have not. I don't know the details of your life or your beliefs and you do not know mine. This means either one or both of us may start off with wrong ideas about the other.

I also was speaking about this forum, a Christian forum, and presenting reasons as to why not just anyone should be allowed to participate everywhere.

Everyone is a believer in something, but your words to this point gave me no reason to presume you believed what I believed as a follower of Christ. Even atheists believe in something.

Debating with non-Christians about things in the secular may be a good thing, but is there really a good reason why this forum or every Christian forum should make a place where it is allowed? Perhaps?

In my home, some subjects are never discussed. That is the choice of my wife and me. Who else should make the choice for our home?

Amadeus said:

But... one does need to know God in order to understand that in God there are no contradictions even though it may seem that way to a carnal mind.

Lapidem said: But we were not talking about God were we? We were talking about the Bible, and about a thread discussing the differences between the OT and NT. There are many contradictions in the Bible, it is literally riddled with them. So again I question why so-called "Christians" would seek to censor out the viewpoints of others on such topics.

No one is allowed to have any privacy at all? Is that how you operate in your home? May any stranger walk in and speak his mind about anything with anyone who lives in the home?

There are no contradictions in the Word of God and that is what matters to me...

 

[Lapidem]

I shall endeavour to deal with your points Amadeus. I will first take the liberty of reducing your font size because making the text bigger adds no additional weight or credibility to the content and is unnecessary. In the event that you have poor eyesight you can very easily zoom in and make the text larger using CTRL-+

What does any parent do to their children when they put them into any public school? What kind of brain washing goes on there? When my own children were young they went to Christian schools or we home schooled them. That was to help them become like me and their mother and hopefully like God.

It's perhaps not too surprising that you don't see the total irony in your statement above.

I was speaking to you based on what you have revealed and what you have not. I don't know the details of your life or your beliefs and you do not know mine. This means either one or both of us may start off with wrong ideas about the other.

Indeed. And thus why it would be somewhat foolish to make any assumptions in regards to who is or who is not a "believer" and equally foolish to assume that what one person believes should be what another believes.

I also was speaking about this forum, a Christian forum, and presenting reasons as to why not just anyone should be allowed to participate everywhere.

Which suggests your haven't followed the discussion for no-one has suggested that anyone should be allowed to participate everywhere. The suggestion has merely been that on matters we would deem "General Discussion" which are not about or connected to Christianity or religious matters, that we should allow all forum members to participate freely and equally and that such discussions should be neutral in nature and thus neither reside in the Christian or Non-Christian areas of the forum.

Everyone is a believer in something, but your words to this point gave me no reason to presume you believed what I believed as a follower of Christ. Even atheists believe in something.

Why should my words do so? Why should I believe what you believe? Even amongst what you glibly term as "believers" it would be nothing short of arrogant to suggest that all "believers" should hold their beliefs and express them in the same way that you do. There are numerous flavours of Christianity, there are numerous styles of spiritual awareness of God. To suggest that there is but one way to believe, indeed "your way" is surely to limit God, to suggest that what he does for you, with you, is what he must do with everyone else. Belief is a very personal thing and is unique to each person in their individual awareness and understanding. There are "believers" who do not believe as you do, who do not interpret the Bible as you do.

Debating with non-Christians about things in the secular may be a good thing, but is there really a good reason why this forum or every Christian forum should make a place where it is allowed? Perhaps?

The point you make is moot because:

1. This forum does exist already
2. The members of the forum are already discussing things of a general nature such as vaccines and philosophy and human genders.
3. There is already a place where such discussion IS allowed in the forum

I merely suggest that the place it resides in should be neutral, neither in the Christian or Non-Christian areas and it should not matter one jot whether a Christian or Non-Christian started any given thread there.

No one is allowed to have any privacy at all? Is that how you operate in your home? May any stranger walk in and speak his mind about anything with anyone who lives in the home?

Again you totally misunderstand. The forum here quite rightly has sections devoted to Christians. You have all the privacy you need within those areas. No-one has suggested that "privacy" be removed.

Aside from that, if I had welcomed a stranger into my house I would not then ask them to leave the room and go and sit in the garden shed whilst the rest of us discussed BrExit. I would consider doing so to be rather poor manners and very much censorship of the stranger's views. A very odd way to behave indeed.

There are no contradictions in the Word of God and that is what matters to me...

There are 100s of contradictions in the Bible (I won't bandy silly terminology with you about Bible vs Word Of God) if it is interpreted in the wrong way. Indeed much of the Bible makes no sense at all if taken literally and sadly a great many Christians feel too guilty to face up to that reality and compartmentalise it instead of having the courage to listen to the intuition and reasoning that they were given at birth. Had they the courage to face it they would then see that they have interpreted the text incorrectly and in ignorance of things which underpin the true meaning. Only once that humble admission has been made can they then step on the true path of understanding to learn what the writers were referring to in the texts.

 

[Behold]

I will happily debate this with you. But this thread is not the place.

Im just responding to your point of view.
If you feel this is a "debate", then that would be your opinion.
You're welcome to it.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Can I just add that they're nice enough of to welcome non-Christians to a Christian forum in the first place when they wouldn't even have to do that at all? On an atheist forum you probably wouldn't see the same kind of hospitality.

Outstanding!

 

[JohnDB]

I'm just glad to be accused of being a Christian and found guilty of said crime...

It's my fault...I started a thread in the wrong forum.

 

[lforrest]

All of this is understood and not remotely contested. However there are areas of debate which are not about Christianity, not about "godly edification" and so on. Perhaps that's the more fundamental issue ? Threads about the merits of vaccines or specific vaccines like RNA vs others are not about godly edification. Threads about Free Will vs Determinism are irrefutably classic Philosophical discussion. What about any threads about say BrExit?

On any forum people are going to occasionally create threads that are simply "General Discussion". Pretty much every forum I know, regardless of its core focus or specialism, have sections for more General Discussion. It makes sense to have such here. And if so, such a section would not belong in either the Christian Section or the Non-Christian section. It should surely be a neutral area where ALL can openly discuss general issues and topics and where it doesn't matter who starts the threads.

Every topic worth debating with Christians will be influenced by some sort of bias based on our view.

For example we have prophecies about dark last days. As we grow near that day Christians expect to see fulfillment of prophecy regarding the rise of a new world order. If some turn of events points to this future in any way you can be sure there will be Christians who believe it, and some who deny it.

 

[Mayflower]

I shall endeavour to deal with your points Amadeus. I will first take the liberty of reducing your font size because making the text bigger adds no additional weight or credibility to the content and is unnecessary.

If you asked Amadeus, his eye sight is just bad. Id blow my words up for him, but it is a pain on my phone. But he probably has to make the screen bigger to read yours. Typing is probably a pain too.

 

[Lapidem]

Every topic worth debating with Christians will be influenced by some sort of bias based on our view.

The same is true of everybody. We are all influenced by our experiences, circumstances, beliefs and biases. This is not an excuse for segregation of topics that are not about Christianity or related matters. A wide perspective of views is a healthy thing.

For example we have prophecies about dark last days. As we grow near that day Christians expect to see fulfillment of prophecy regarding the rise of a new world order. If some turn of events points to this future in any way you can be sure there will be Christians who believe it, and some who deny it.

What has this got to do with what we are discussing? I'm asking about general discussion not religious matters. Prophecies and end times are clearly matters that relate to Christianity and thus should be in the Christian area of the forum.

 

[Lapidem]

If you asked Amadeus, his eye sight is just bad. Id blow my words up for him, but it is a pain on my phone. But he probably has to make the screen bigger to read yours. Typing is probably a pain too.

Understood and anticipated which is why I posted the simple quick way to enlarge the screen. You can literally just hold the CTRL key and use the mouse wheel if you have one or just hit the + key

 

[Mayflower]

Understood and anticipated which is why I posted the simple quick way to enlarge the screen. You can literally just hold the CTRL key and use the mouse wheel if you have one or just hit the + key

Phones are not that easy. I don't know what he uses, but obviously he has been on here for over two years and there is nothing wrong how he posts.

I encourage you to start your own threads if you want to have some good discussions. This isn't really going anywhere.

 

[lforrest]

The same is true of everybody. We are all influenced by our experiences, circumstances, beliefs and biases. This is not an excuse for segregation of topics that are not about Christianity or related matters. A wide perspective of views is a healthy thing.




What has this got to do with what we are discussing? I'm asking about general discussion not religious matters. Prophecies and end times are clearly matters that relate to Christianity and thus should be in the Christian area of the forum.

You may think they are unrelated to a Christian world view, but they are. The bias against the world runs deep, and goes both ways.

Josho suggested you quote from these other forums and start a new topic with the quote. That would also be my suggestion because we ain't changing the policy any time soon.