B
brakelite
Guest
You are not reading THBE's posts. Or perhaps you have read them, but are misrepresenting them?So many to choose from ...
The idea that Catholics deny the incarnation is frankly ridiculous...
Peace!
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You are not reading THBE's posts. Or perhaps you have read them, but are misrepresenting them?So many to choose from ...
The idea that Catholics deny the incarnation is frankly ridiculous...
Peace!
You are not reading THBE's posts. Or perhaps you have read them, but are misrepresenting them?
World-wide power:...How does this relate to the Antichrist? The future Antichrist will be a world-wide power, essentially pagan, which will persecute...
Persecutor:...How does this relate to the Antichrist? The future Antichrist will be a world-wide power, essentially pagan, which will persecute...
No-one is suggesting that Catholics deny that Jesus became a man. The problem is in what kind of man, why, how, and who from. And who said.Lol ... What part of what I quoted did I misrepresent?
You and THBE are two peas in a pod. His quotes are an abuse of Catholic documents. Volume does not equal context. An example??? Every quote from a Catholic source is fashioned into weapon. He doesn't understand the catechism, how to use it properly or what and who it's for, he thinks Catholics sit around studying Canon Law which he grossly abuses as well. He has no idea what context means. He makes the common mistake of thinking that every single word ever wrote by any Catholic is infallible and binding, and ignores reformulation of centuries old teachings.You disagree with his sources, or what the sources are saying? You say he doesn't have a clue. So, give us an example of what he is saying in his quotes actually differs from Catholic teaching.
What you mistake as "fantasy" is known as "Biblical arguments". Catholics are taught not to approach Jesus directly, but that they need pray to Mary their "intercessor". She's known as the "wrath subduer", who "needs only to bear to Him the breasts that gave Him suck" in order to assuage His "great anger" towards sinners. This teaching is among the most sick of all Catholic doctrines and completely distorts the loving character of Jesus.Your post is full of lies and this is but an example. If you wish to try and 'correct' us at least speak to what we ACTUALLY teach amd believe rather than your fantasies...
Peace!
ByGrace, we Protestants have a responsibility to expose the lies of Catholicism which have left millions upon millions blind to Jesus' invitation to approach Him directly, a privilege that you no doubt cherish, but to which - by your disdain for those who speak out against the doctrines of Catholicism - selfishly cling. PLEASE, either join those who wish to avail this privilege to all trapped Catholics or keep your "Jane Fonda-esque" opinions to yourself regarding this matter.
These are pertinent issues and much hinges on having the facts clear
THBE is clearly one of the more academically inclined Bible students among us who has yet to lower himself to character assassination in any of his posts. Don't allow epostle to feed your fears and affect your mind towards others. Stay impartial until you weigh the evidence. This is what such discussions are all about. The weight of evidence.
Again, Roman Catholicism admits to its own past (now, after being caught in the act, and they boldly cry, "forgery!", like Judas, too late, too late, "I have betrayed the innocent blood ...", they say, but they share in no actual guilt.), and then seeks to cover over its long history, with 'forgery'! As the murderer caught, the adulterer caught! Their system indeed is the forgers of myriads of falsehoods ("Immaculate Conception", being just one) - then - and have changed nothing since, and so 'forge' lies now.... The The Decretum of Gratian is well know as a forgery!...
The "Donation of Constantine" is a forgery (and so they now admit after being caught), but knowingly used for centuries.... The The Decretum of Gratian is well know as a forgery!...
Wow. Is the hatred out of your system yet?Roman Catholic "trinity" is actually 'singularity', "one principle":
"... 237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God".58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel's faith before the Incarnation of God's Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit. ...
... 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85 ...
... 261 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
262 The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.
263 The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn 14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (⇒Jn 15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed).
264 "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine, De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).
266 "Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).
267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father
* "We believe then in the Father who eternally begets the Son, in the Son, the Word of God, who is eternally begotten; in the Holy Spirit, the uncreated Person who proceeds from the Father and the Son as their eternal love. Thus in the Three Divine Persons, coaeternae sibi et coaequales,[8] the life and beatitude of God perfectly one superabound and are consummated in the supreme excellence and glory proper to uncreated being, and always "there should be venerated unity in the Trinity and Trinity in the unity."[9]" [Online Roman Catholic Library; Credo of the People of God; Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968] - http://www.newadvent...docs_pa06cr.htm
"...that the Paraclete "is not to be considered as unconnected with the Father and the Son, for He is with Them one in substance and divinity"...
... Proceeding both from the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost, nevertheless, proceeds from Them as from a single principle. ... Hence it follows, indeed, that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the two other Persons, not in so far as They are distinct, but inasmuch as Their Divine perfection is numerically one. Besides, such is the explicit teaching of ecclesiastical tradition, which is concisely put by St. Augustine (On the Holy Trinity V.14): "As the Father and the Son are only one God and, relatively to the creature, only one Creator and one Lord, so, relatively to the Holy Ghost, They are only one principle." This doctrine was definded in the following words by the Second Ecumenical Council of Lyons [Denzinger, "Enchiridion" (1908), n. 460]: "We confess that the Holy Ghost proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son, not as from two principles, but as from one principle, not by two spirations, but by one single spiration." The teaching was again laid down by the Council of Florence (ibid., n. 691), and by Eugene IV in his Bull "Cantate Domino" (ibid., n. 703 sq.). ...
..."the Holy Ghost comes from the Father and from the Son not made, not created, not generated, but proceeding" ... " [Online Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, Holy Spirit; sections throughout] - http://www.newadvent...then/07409a.htm
"The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; one in essence, three in persons; Father unborn, Son born of the Father, Holy Spirit proceeding from Father and Son; that the Father is not Son or Holy Spirit, that Son is not Father or Holy Spirit; that Holy Spirit is not Father or Son; but Father alone is Father, Son alone is Son, Holy Spirit alone is Holy Spirit. The Father alone begot the Son of His own substance; the Son alone was begotten of the Father alone; the Holy Spirit alone proceeds at the same time from the Father and Son.
These three persons are one God, and not three gods, because the three have one substance, one essence, one nature, one divinity, one immensity, one eternity, where no opposition of relationship interferes.
“Because of this unity the Father is entire in the Son, entire in the Holy Spirit; the Son is entire in the Father, entire in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is entire in the Father, entire in the Son. No one either excels another in eternity, or exceeds in magnitude, or is superior in power. For the fact that the Son is of the Father is eternal and without beginning; and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son is eternal and without beginning.” Whatever the Father is or has, He does not have from another, but from Himself; and He is the principle without principle. Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle. Whatever the Holy Spirit is or has, He has simultaneously from the Father and the Son. But the Father and the Son are not two principles of the Holy Spirit, but one principle, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of the creature, but one principle. ..." The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV by Pope Eugene IV - http://catholicism.o...ate-domino.html
That teaches 'singularity', a 'single 'being'', which is error, for Satan himself must masquerade as three.
Hi sister,...I will remove myself from this thread, but first I'd like to ask you one thing only:
Could you explain to me what's wrong with the above explanation of the Trinity?
How do YOU understand the Trinity to be ?
Is it not three persons in One God?
There's much too much to read.Hi sister,
Read the definition (of Rome) carefully.
Study what the Bible says in regards "one" in connection with JEHOVAH Elohiym, begin with Genesis 1:1.
The question is faulty (as it is not about what "I" ('YOU') understand, only what scripture itself says in its plain statements, for God is true), but, here is a listing on the subject already posted for you, to answer your question (see also the context in the surrounding posts), for the Roman Catholic official definition (there are other def.) of "trinity" (teaches 'one principle', thus singularity, and ultimately denies the actual persons/beings of the individual Father and individual Son (and so also the Holy Ghost)) denies "the father and the son" (1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.) -
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411413Oh, Roman Catholicism will 'say' all kinds of things outwardly that sounds pleasing, sounds right at first thought, but it is in the details in the definition. This is not to be harsh. It is based in the above demonstrated materials, and myriad more. It involves carefully reading, since their material is all very carefully worded and specifically defined (and in many cases, using definitions defined in other older materials).
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411415
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411416
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411418
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411419
https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cter-that-will-stand.26071/page-6#post-411420
Neither @"ByGrace" nor anyone else on this forum need keep their opinions to themselves. We are all here to post our thoughts, and since we're not theologists, I'd say that even YOU should not act as if you are one. And even if you were,,,I would have no obligation to agree with you.ByGrace, we Protestants have a responsibility to expose the lies of Catholicism which have left millions upon millions blind to Jesus' invitation to approach Him directly, a privilege that you no doubt cherish, but to which - by your disdain for those who speak out against the doctrines of Catholicism - selfishly cling. PLEASE, either join those who wish to avail this privilege to all trapped Catholics or keep your "Jane Fonda-esque" opinions to yourself regarding this matter.
Sister, with all respect, you presently do not understand the Catholic-Lutheran 'accord' definitions therein:... In 1999 an agreement was signed with the LUTHERAN church stating that we are saved by faith alone. Methodists signed this same agreement a few years later. Evangelicals have not and the reason escapes me since it would be the truth....
No. Actually read the material that you asked for....The only debate is the filoque clause....
With all due respect to YOU,Sister, with all respect, you presently do not understand the Catholic-Lutheran 'accord' definitions therein:
Oh. I didn't see the last paragraph.Sister, with all respect, you presently do not understand the Catholic-Lutheran 'accord' definitions therein:
You have been lied to (hoodwinked):
"... 15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11] ..." - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html