BABYLON SCAMYLON

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TheHolyBookEnds

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GodsGrace

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Sister, with all respect, you presently do not understand the Catholic-Lutheran 'accord' definitions therein:



You have been lied to (hoodwinked):

"... 15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11] ..." - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
What's wrong with the above!!!!
It's all correct...

Justification is TOTALLY a work of God, the Father.
The Son is distinguished because it's the Son that was on the cross... not the Father.

ALL is worked in us through the Holy Spirit.

Are you not a Trinitarian?
I'm missing something...
 
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GodsGrace

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Rollo Tamasi

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Neither @"ByGrace" nor anyone else on this forum need keep their opinions to themselves. We are all here to post our thoughts, and since we're not theologists, I'd say that even YOU should not act as if you are one. And even if you were,,,I would have no obligation to agree with you.

Catholics don't need US to teach them anything. They were around a very long time before Protestantism came to being. They've made many mistakes...why? Because they're humans, just like we protestants are. I do hope you remember the witch burnings and the hatred we have even amoungst ourselves. I'm speaking here of calvinists and non-calvinists --- the hatred is palpable at times.

Catholics believe Jesus saves. In 1999 an agreement was signed with the LUTHERAN church stating that we are saved by faith alone. Methodists signed this same agreement a few years later. Evangelicals have not and the reason escapes me since it would be the truth.

Is it Mary you hate so much? Do you believe Jesus is happy to know how much you hate her? Do you respect her? Then why carry on about it?

And remember this: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
No catholic would ever listen to the likes of the posts I'm reading here.
How exactly do you think you're helping them?
Some are saved and some are not.
Just like Protestants.
You're missing the point.
the ecumenical council
One world church.
these agreements are only words in order to bring everyone together.
 
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GodsGrace

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You're missing the point.
the ecumenical council
One world church.
these agreements are only words in order to bring everyone together.
I'm not missing this.
The Christian faith was meant to "be together".
But the CC made many mistakes back in the "dark ages".
Now, here we are, the 21st century and our "religion" was split up back in 1,500 AD and with some beliefs that are pretty horrendous, except that they were fixed up along the way.

So, we Protestants disliked the CC because it taught works....which Calvin taught too, BTW.

Now, the CC agrees that we're saved by faith alone and it's still a problem because of the one world religion.
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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@epostle1

Why on earth did you start this thread? Give up on them. :p . . . .
I am glad this thread was so started, and with the topic it has.

The Bible says:

Matthew 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Mark 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.​

Therefore, whether I respond or no, all will come to be known, one way or another. If I speak not, the very stones (as they already are) will cry out, but many do not want to acknowledge what is revealed. God is leaving all without excuse.

I thank Jesus Christ, my Saviour, who has delivered me. He told me the truth, when humans wouldn't.

Some people seem to think 'love' excludes telling someone the truth. Ask any godly physician if telling people the truth is love.

Paul said some powerful things to the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?​

Jesus said:

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
If I told you not the truth, then I do not love you.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.​

If I do not warn you, then I do not love you. As stated, I do not hate a Roman Catholic. This is about beliefs/doctrines/practices, the "ism". I am against all error (see the Islam thread, etc), and for all truth. Therefore, do not think I hate you, the person, or "epostle1". I pray for him, as someone once prayed for me. I understand being angry at being shown these things. I get it, and is one of the reasons I do not need to insult persons (I will speak straight, by the grace of God). I have personally been there. When I myself began to see these things, I became really angry, and tried to deny these things, prove these things wrong. Yet, I had to be honest with the evidence, and with myself, and with God most of all. He showed me. If I refused what He showed me (I didn't go looking for any of it), I would love to believe a lie.
 

TheHolyBookEnds

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...The idea that Catholics deny the incarnation is frankly ridiculous...

Peace!
Strawman. I clearly demonstrated the difference. "the flesh" Philip. Think about how "the flesh" of Christ makes a difference between "fallen" (likeness of sinful flesh) and "unfallen" (as angels or Adam had before the fall), and work it through in each case in what it would do to the way in which salvation works.
 

Helen

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....and so it goes on...and on...

It is amazing how on one thread we can speak about forgiveness , love and the suchlike...and then come to a thread and find no such godly attributes!!!
..
On one thread we read phrases like "real Christians" and " genuine Christians" ...then we come to other threads and see that so few even understand what anything means...they don't act like "Real" Christians.

I have another word for you other than "real christian...= DISCIPLE
John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another. "

I think I can hear the Lord saying..." And I am Still waiting"....

There is so much twaddle posted on anti-catholic.

OBVIOUSLY the Catholics will jump to defend what they happen to hold as precious. They happen to believe what they believe...they are free to do that!!!! ...just as some protestants foolishly believe some of the junk that they have been spoon fed.
What and who makes anyone more superior than another? Seems much like "Pride in what one believes"

All the rubbish about - " We must expose the false teachings of the Catholics.
The house is on fire, the sky is falling!
Give me a break...do people really believe that ANYONE on this Site has not had that drummed into them from the moment they were 'saved'?

We all know it, we have all read it...we have all seen it, we have all heard it for decades...yet here people are ...instead of preaching the Good News of the kingdom...some feel they have some divine right to yap on and on and on about all that is wrong with someone else and have their nose into what they believe.
I personally believe that the Muslim "army" is an insidious threat to the world. It does not obsess me, I do not talk very much about it..I do not feel that I have to scream "the sky is falling" or write long boring posts about it and put a hundreds photo's up about it.

Ask yourself how good is your own walk, how perfect are you?

We need to put our own house in order...God will take care of the rest.
Go pray in some corner if you must attack what 'you' deem as evil.
God WILL have the last word, He only is the Judge of mens hearts.

YES, we know it is "a system" not the people...blah blah blah..we are not stupid.

As for THBE's dominant flooding of long posts...obviously he feels he has some divine calling to get everyone saved because we are all idiots and know nothing for ourselves, obviously we are too stupid to get on our knees with our Heavenly Father and hear for ourselves. :rolleyes:

Where is faith? God is a powerful God? ...He is alive and well...He does actually speak to those who can hear Him....yet we are so busy sorting out someone else , God gets sidelined every time as the centre and reason for our life.

It is easy to come on this Site and recognise the the Spirit of the Lord in some people. Just like in Acts 4 ..when- they "knew" that (Peter and John) had been with Jesus.." God's fingerprints show clearly on the lives that spend time in His presence. Those who are heart people..rather than mind and bookish people that have knowledge of God... yet in spite of that they do not reflect Him.... "we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but Love edifieth. "

th2cents.gif
 

GodsGrace

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....and so it goes on...and on...

It is amazing how on one thread we can speak about forgiveness , love and the suchlike...and then come to a thread and find no such godly attributes!!!
..
On one thread we read phrases like "real Christians" and " genuine Christians" ...then we come to other threads and see that so few even understand what anything means...they don't act like "Real" Christians.

I have another word for you other than "real christian...= DISCIPLE
John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another. "

I think I can hear the Lord saying..." And I am Still waiting"....

There is so much twaddle posted on anti-catholic.

OBVIOUSLY the Catholics will jump to defend what they happen to hold as precious. They happen to believe what they believe...they are free to do that!!!! ...just as some protestants foolishly believe some of the junk that they have been spoon fed.
What and who makes anyone more superior than another? Seems much like "Pride in what one believes"

All the rubbish about - " We must expose the false teachings of the Catholics.
The house is on fire, the sky is falling!
Give me a break...do people really believe that ANYONE on this Site has not had that drummed into them from the moment they were 'saved'?

We all know it, we have all read it...we have all seen it, we have all heard it for decades...yet here people are ...instead of preaching the Good News of the kingdom...some feel they have some divine right to yap on and on and on about all that is wrong with someone else and have their nose into what they believe.
I personally believe that the Muslim "army" is an insidious threat to the world. It does not obsess me, I do not talk very much about it..I do not feel that I have to scream "the sky is falling" or write long boring posts about it and put a hundreds photo's up about it.

Ask yourself how good is your own walk, how perfect are you?

We need to put our own house in order...God will take care of the rest.
Go pray in some corner if you must attack what 'you' deem as evil.
God WILL have the last word, He only is the Judge of mens hearts.

YES, we know it is "a system" not the people...blah blah blah..we are not stupid.

As for THBE's dominant flooding of long posts...obviously he feels he has some divine calling to get everyone saved because we are all idiots and know nothing for ourselves, obviously we are too stupid to get on our knees with our Heavenly Father and hear for ourselves. :rolleyes:

Where is faith? God is a powerful God? ...He is alive and well...He does actually speak to those who can hear Him....yet we are so busy sorting out someone else , God gets sidelined every time as the centre and reason for our life.

It is easy to come on this Site and recognise the the Spirit of the Lord in some people. Just like in Acts 4 ..when- they "knew" that (Peter and John) had been with Jesus.." God's fingerprints show clearly on the lives that spend time in His presence. Those who are heart people..rather than mind and bookish people that have knowledge of God... yet in spite of that they do not reflect Him.... "we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but Love edifieth. "

View attachment 3081
Amen to all.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift ofprophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
 
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Helen

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I thank Jesus Christ, my Saviour, who has delivered me. He told me the truth, when humans wouldn't.

That sounds awfully like this..that Jesus condemned while praising the humility of the 'sinner'.

Quote THBE:-I thank Jesus Christ, my Saviour, who has delivered me. He told me the truth..
Translation =
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."

.
 
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Phoneman777

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ByGrace nor anyone else on this forum need keep their opinions to themselves
We should voice objectionable or even provocative opinions - but to undermine other's sincere evangelistic efforts by demanding publicly that we "give up on them" implies they are "hopeless zealots" and is wrong, insulting, and not very Christlike.

We are all here to post our thoughts, and since we're not theologists, I'd say that even YOU should not act as if you are one. And even if you were,,,I would have no obligation to agree with you.
If I sound like a "theologist", well then praise God and thank you!

Catholics don't need US to teach them anything.
Yes, a bereaved Catholic widow who's driven almost to the point of insanity and of cursing God because she can't afford to pay the church the monetary amount necessary to get her departed husband out of Purgatory doesn't need a Protestant to teach her anything.

They were around a very long time before Protestantism came to being.
Paganism has been around longer than Catholicism (though arguably one in the same), so I guess we shouldn't try to point the Chinese from Fuxi and Nuwa or Persians from Zoroaster to Jesus, right?

I do hope you remember the witch burnings and the hatred we have even amoungst ourselves. I'm speaking here of calvinists and non-calvinists --- the hatred is palpable at times.
You're mixing Catholic decretal apples with Protestant non-canonical oranges. A few murderous zealots on the Eastern seaboard hardly represent the historic global mission of Religious Freedom of the global Protestant Church, and comparing the Salem Witch trials to the 1,260 years of church-sanctioned global Papal persecution of millions upon millions of God's saints is like comparing Mr. Rogers to Mr. Krueger.

Catholics believe Jesus saves. In 1999 an agreement was signed with the LUTHERAN church stating that we are saved by faith alone. Methodists signed this same agreement a few years later.
Faith in what, exactly? What you, as well as most non-Catholics, are not aware of is that Catholicism does not teach that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation but that salvation is something that God - without any need of blood atonement whatsoever - awards to anyone who places their faith in the priesthood/sacraments, by which they obtain forgiveness for sin and the salvation that brings. Jesus' death, relative to salvation, means nothing in Catholicism. A priest not that long ago spoke about how much he loved to sing "How Great Thou Art" in church, but when he gets to the third verse:

"And when I think of God,
His Son not sparing,
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross,
My burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin."
...he proudly declared that he shuts his mouth and refuses to sing it, and says he, too, "scarce can take it in" because the idea that God requires anything more than priestly intercession is unacceptable.

Is it Mary you hate so much? Do you believe Jesus is happy to know how much you hate her? Do you respect her? Then why carry on about it?
Why would the RCC teach a false doctrine about Mary's fleshly sinful nature in order to "prove" that Jesus did not have the same fallen fleshly nature of Adam and his posterity, and by this deny Catholics the privilege of approaching directly the open arms of Jesus? You really ought to check your emotions at the door and try to see things from a logical perspective.

And remember this: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. No catholic would ever listen to the likes of the posts I'm reading here. How exactly do you think you're helping them?
When the Protestant Reformers began proving from the Bible that the Papacy is the Antichrist, there was such unbelievably massive exodus of Roman Catholics who threw away their rosaries and fled from the darkness of the RCC into the marvelous light of Biblical Protestantism, that it took eighteen years - the longest ever church council ever convened in Catholic church history - for the RCC to figure out how to deal with the problem. And today, it is not historic Protestant doctrine that prevents Catholics from seeing the light and leaving behind the darkness, but "protestants" who are no longer protesting that are blocking the cathedral exits.[/QUOTE]
 
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Philip James

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Yes, a bereaved Catholic widow who's driven almost to the point of insanity and of cursing God because she can't afford to pay the church the monetary amount necessary to get her departed husband out of Purgatory doesn't need a Protestant to teach her anything

Wow. Just wow
 
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brakelite

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I personally believe that the Muslim "army" is an insidious threat to the world. It does not obsess me, I do not talk very much about it..I do not feel that I have to scream "the sky is falling" or write long boring posts about it and put a hundreds photo's up about it.
Hi. I know. I get that these matters do not impact some folks as they do others. Some don't feel a compelled to speak up about these things, such as in prophecy etc, as do others. However, does that mean no-one should do so? Does that mean, for example, identifying who the beast is so that people may avoid its mark, shouldn't be discussed? At all? The difference between Catholicism and Islam is that Islam is so clearly wrong that the danger is obvious. Catholicism, at least as far as I am concerned, is a counterfeit, thus not identified as false...your own views toward Catholicism case in point. Thus more needs to be written, more information offered, the masks removed.
That the Protestant church in the form of Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans (CoE/Episcopalians) and evangelicals and others are now so openly advocating and formulating alliances, agreements and unity in a way that suggests the theological differences are no longer applicable or worth consideration, is a sure sign that while the distance between Rome and the rest of the world may be closing, reveals a certain blindness on the part of Protestants that suggest that either the RCC has changed...or never was what (Reform) Protestantism accused her of...
That these discussions on this forum are taking place at all reveals starkly that there is a need for them.
The book of Revelation screams of the need for truth, and the danger of deception. The whole world, the planet's entire population, is going to follow after the beast in admiration and worship. These are God's warnings. His admonition that we study these matters because our eternal destiny depends on our full understanding that we be not deceived. Have you ever wondered why it is that for over 1000 years anyone who seriously studied these matters were almost unanimous in their conclusion that all the prophetic road markers lead to Rome?
 

Philip James

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Catholicism, at least as far as I am concerned, is a counterfeit, thus not identified as false...

Then you should be Orthodox... Not really any other option that wasnt started by men who left the apostolic community imo

Peace!
 
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brakelite

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That sounds awfully like this..that Jesus condemned while praising the humility of the 'sinner'.

Quote THBE:-I thank Jesus Christ, my Saviour, who has delivered me. He told me the truth..
Translation =
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."

.
I think we need to take great care in belittling anyones personal testimony. I also was raised Catholic. For over 20 years exposed to Catholic teaching, and taught solely in Catholic institutions. I also have the same testimony of freedom from the superstitions, corruptions, and frauds that permeate that institution. I also give Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, all the glory for delivering me and revealing to me the truth. Nothing prideful in such a testimony. It is God Who in mercy accomplished this and opened my blind eyes. Would you reply to such as a Pharisee and deny that God would show such grace to sinners such as we?
 

epostle1

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You calling Mother Teresa a liar? She said, "No Mary, no Jesus".
I would never call St. Mother Teresa a liar, but a mix of Ku Klux Klan; 7th day Adventist theology, a mentally disturbed sadistic authority hater; educated only in Jack Chick, Hyslop/Pickering lies, addicted to false histories and spiritual porn, gets a high over the most vile anti-Catholic crap available on the internet and fabricates phony anti-Catholic testimonies, I would call a liar. Wouldn't you?


aa wings.jpg

Who is the "woman"?
A) Mary
B) personification of the Church
C) personification of Israel
D) all of the above
E) the whore of Babylon