Babylon

[Earburner]

Look, you think it ridiculous that an image in Daniel of four beasts, one looking like a lion with wings, one like a bear and another as a leopard could symbolize the rule of Satan throughout earth history? hmmmmmmmm!

I don't think it to be ridiculous, I simply think that the symbolism reflects the character and/or nature of an empire's way of going and it's achievements.

Then let me ask you "pointedly" if you also think it ridiculous that in Revelation a very similar image of four living creatures, with wings, one creature like a lion, another like a calf, another with a face as a man, and the fourth like a flying eagle, could be symbolic of the rule of Christ?

You see it's not strange or ridiculous at all. Christ is the eternal promise of the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Christ is the calf or Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Christ is the Man who would take away the sins of the world, and Christ is the eagle, the protector of all His people under His wings. Well, NO, this type of interpretation is not Ridiculous at all.

As for the four living creatures etc. In Ezk. 1:28, it is not anything symbolic but what was actuallyy seen by Ezekiel, which "was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD".
And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

 

[Earburner]

In Dan. Ch. 7 God laid out His format for understanding His use of symbols about the four main kingdoms of men that shall rule the world. We are to apply that same methodology for interpreting the symbolic subjects in Rev.
1. Mystery, Babylon
2. The 10H beast.
3. The "another beast" with 2Hs.
4. The image of the 10H beast.

If you are going to be "rolling on the floor laughing" at me, make sure that you understand that I agreed with you in my post #638 about the unsaved being the natural man, the sons [plural] of perdition.

 

[ewq1938]

The USA has two forms of government (2 horns), being the Republicans and the Democrats. Both are united, orchestrating as one.

Repubs and Democrats are not two forms of government. They are two ideologies within the government and there are more than just them.

The FP isn't a nation but a ruler of a nation, so you start the whole thing wrong. Horns represent kings in Daniel and Rev not entire political parties.

 

[ewq1938]

In Dan. Ch. 7 God laid out His format for understanding His use of symbols about the four main kingdoms of men that shall rule the world. We are to apply that same methodology for interpreting the symbolic subjects in Rev.
1. Mystery, Babylon
2. The 10H beast.
3. The "another beast" with 2Hs.
4. The image of the 10H beast.

The last two are not kingdoms so there is no match at all between this list and the 4 beasts of Daniel 7.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Repubs and Democrats are not two forms of government. They are two ideologies within the government and there are more than just them.

The FP isn't a nation but a ruler of a nation, so you start the whole thing wrong. Horns represent kings in Daniel and Rev not entire political parties.

Oh? The two horns like a lamb are the ideologies within the American government? LOL...okay....

 

[Marilyn C]

The book uses the metaphor of horns as kings so I would prefer to interpret the FP's horns in that way.



The deadly wound is not ascribed to teh AC so I would not be able to agree. It's caused by a sword and the wound is healed but nothing else is stated.

The FP tells people to create an image of the first beast. Thus the image is of a kingdom, not a man because the ten horned beast is a kingdom, while the FP is a man who is the leader of the first beast. The FP is the AC

`Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence...` (Rev. 13: 12)

There we read of the FP only exercising authority in the presence of the first beast - GG with A/C as Leader.

Does that get us closer?

 

[Marilyn C]

That's because the Revelation Babylon is not the same one. Its symbolic, a prophetic dream. A prophetic dream uses symbols, but the description is something else.

`And the woman whom you saw is (of) that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18)

Babylon is an actual city, being rebuilt today. God`s word says it will be destroyed and that is to come.

 

[Marilyn C]

You need to take up a brief historical study about the Medio-Persian Empire, symbolized as a Ram with two horns. In God's use of symbolism, what did he mean by His description of that empire as a Ram having two horns?
In Daniel 8:20 what do the two horns symbolize or represent?
[20] The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Edit:
the two horns on the Ram are symbolic of two kings of two forms of government united, orchestrating as one.

The same applies to the "another beast" with two horns in Rev. 13.
The USA has two forms of government (2 horns), being the Republicans and the Democrats. Both are united, orchestrating as one.

Yes - 2 powers - religious and economic.

 

[Rockerduck]

`And the woman whom you saw is (of) that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18)

Babylon is an actual city, being rebuilt today. God`s word says it will be destroyed and that is to come.

You don't understand prophetic dreams. That's not Babylon.

 

[Marilyn C]

You don't understand prophetic dreams. That's not Babylon.

When we read Rev. 18 we see that riches, slaves, merchandise etc was housed in the city of Babylon. It eventually was burned by God and all the Merchants of the world mourned for her. Babylon is an actual city.

 

[Rockerduck]

When we read Rev. 18 we see that riches, slaves, merchandise etc was housed in the city of Babylon. It eventually was burned by God and all the Merchants of the world mourned for her. Babylon is an actual city.

John saw the Roman empire in his day as Babylon. Rome did everything described as Babylon.

 

[Marilyn C]

John saw the Roman empire in his day as Babylon. Rome did everything described as Babylon.

It`s a new day.

 

[ewq1938]

`Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence...` (Rev. 13: 12)

There we read of the FP only exercising authority in the presence of the first beast - GG with A/C as Leader.

Does that get us closer?

The FP is the leader, exercising all the power of the first beast which is an empire. The FP is it's king or leader. It's not a limited thing, only allowed at certain times or something. The FP is the one people commonly call the "antichrist".

 

[Rockerduck]

The FP is the leader, exercising all the power of the first beast which is an empire. The FP is it's king or leader. It's not a limited thing, only allowed at certain times or something. The FP is the one people commonly call the "antichrist".

The first beast coming out the sea. The sea is symbolism for turmoil, volatility, the 2nd beast from the earth. Earth means it came from man itself. Both beasts are a world system that symbolize something now, that is worshipped, meaning labored for, consumed by. obsessed by.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

Why is it that so many on this forum do not understand the scriptures as to who the beasts are. Paul in Ephesians 6 told us this: -

Ep 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.​

These spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly place are none other than the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and Daniel 8:8b-12: -

Daniel 8:8b-12: - in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.​

The patterns are there to see the working of the beasts and the Little Horn/False Prophet.

Why is it that people believe the lies of Satan and wrongly understand the dynamics of what is happening with respect to the Beast and the Little Horn like what the reformation father propagated so as to demonise the Roman Catholic Church and its Popes.

Not until the truth is actually discovered by many of the theologians will this lie be revealed and overcome.

 

[Rockerduck]

Hello,

Why is it that so many on this forum do not understand the scriptures as to who the beasts are. Paul in Ephesians 6 told us this: -

Ep 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.​

These spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly place are none other than the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and Daniel 8:8b-12: -

​

Daniel 8:8b-12: - in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.​

The patterns are there to see the working of the beasts and the Little Horn/False Prophet.

Why is it that people believe the lies of Satan and wrongly understand the dynamics of what is happening with respect to the Beast and the Little Horn like what the reformation father propagated so as to demonise the Roman Catholic Church and its Popes.

Not until the truth is actually discovered by many of the theologians will this lie be revealed and overcome.

I pray to Jesus to reveal what the beasts and witnesses are and whatever I need understanding of. The Holy Spirit teaches me and reveals the meaning to me. I will tell you that book of Revelation is at the end. Both beasts came out in the late 1800's and early 1900's and is here today. John 14:26

 

[Earburner]

John saw the Roman empire in his day as Babylon. Rome did everything described as Babylon.

In Daniel 7, Rome is shown to be the 4th beast*, of which becomes one of the seven heads in the evolved state of the 10H beast of Rev. 13.
(Remember, the 4th beast never ended, it just continually evolves until it's last and final stage of development).

In Dan. 7 you can count all of the historical seven heads on which the woman (M,BTG)** sat upon.

*Note 1: Beasts are never in the feminine.
**Note 2: M,BTG Is "Jerusalem which now is". Gal. 4:22-31.

 

[Rockerduck]

In Daniel 7, Rome is shown to be the 4th beast*, of which becomes one of the seven heads in the evolved 10H beast of Rev. 13.
(Remember, the 4th beast never ended, it just continually evolves until it's last and final stage of development).

In Dan. 7 you can count all of the seven heads on which the woman (M,BTG)** sat upon.

*Note 1: Beasts are never in the feminine.
**Note 2: M,BTG Is "Jerusalem which now is". Gal. 4:22-31.

I'll just believe what the Holy Spirit says. Revelation is a prophetic dream that does conform with scripture however, to John, these were past, present and future events. Daniel saw future events that conform to Revelation. Without having prophetic dreams, it is hard to understand that somethings are discerned only by the revealing of the Holy Spirit. There is no way to decipher the symbols without the knowledge of the Holy Spirit. We are in the end days, and the Holy Spirit is revealing things now that in the past were not revealed.

 

[Jay Ross]

I will tell you that book of Revelation is at the end. Both beasts came out in the late 1800's and early 1900's and is here today.

That is interesting, but I also know that God promised Israel that the beasts would be removed from the face of the earth in around 20 years' time for a period of time. Now, how that will happen? I believe that is revealed in Isaiah 24:21-22.

 

[Rockerduck]

That is interesting, but I also know that God promised Israel that the beasts would be removed from the face of the earth in around 20 years' time for a period of time. Now, how that will happen? I believe that is revealed in Isaiah 24:21-22.

I'll look at that, it may be a different beast. But I know what beasts of Revelation are.