Babylon

[Earburner]

Are you intending to claim that all prophetic beasts are only kings? What about this...

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The four beasts themselves, as being world controlling empires, are portrayed by God as being in the masculine.
Two pointed examples are that of
1. The Medio Persian empire, symbolized as the 2H Ram.
2. Alex the Great, symbolized as the "He Goat".

 

[Earburner]

It is because of the following false statement you made, and I'll show you your error in it further below...


Earburner said:
"Maybe today WE ALL can see who "the 8th head" is, that is "carrying" her now. Rev. 17:11.
Knowing that the 8th head IS OF the 7, it is safe to conclude that the USA, who is "another [additional] beast", is of itself that 8th head."


There is NO Biblical command written that tells us to count those Heads of the beast like you are doing. Some man came up with that false idea, probably thought he could eventually sell a Christian book with it.

As per Revelation 13:1, the "seven heads" manifest ALL AT THE SAME TIME with the "ten horns" and the "ten crowns". And Revelation 17 is not separating those "seven heads" either when it is describing the 8 beast kings. The kings ARE NOT the "seven heads", nor is there even an 8th head described there!

So what that doctrine you are pushing, is an ADDING... to the Bible Scripture that is not backed up anywhere in God's Word.

Now then, I'm going to reveal to you some more info about the "seven heads" that is... written in God's Word, though you may think it is speculation.

1.
In the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture, the "red dragon" is described as having a beast with "seven heads", "ten horns", but ONLY "seven crowns". And the time when that dragon drew a third of those stars (angels) to earth is linked with that 7 crown beast. So WHEN was that beast of Rev.12:3-4?

That was the beast kingdom that Lucifer originally rebelled against GOD with, his wanting to be God. Ezekiel 28 and 31 hint to that time when Lucifer was originally perfect in his ways, and was highly exalted, a high cedar, symbolically, in God's Garden.

So... when one starts reading the Revelation 13 Chapter, they are supposed to have already understood about that original Rev.12:3-4 beast kingdom of old that had only "seven crowns" instead of "ten crowns", and then think.

It ultimately means we CANNOT assign the "seven heads" arbitrarily like you are doing. Since that Rev.12 beast with "seven heads" existed in the old world when Satan first rebelled, that means we cannot apply that to present day world beast king history, like you did. That is something Preterists and Historicists like to do, but it does not work, and is not Biblical.

What then are the "seven heads"? They represent 7 concurrent... geographic regions of the earth. They do not represent linear historical beast kings, nor historical beast empires, since all 7 heads are to exist at the same time. And since Rev.13 tells us 1 of... the 7 heads suffered a "deadly wound", that means a certain area on earth suffered a deadly wound, with that pointing back to the "seven heads" beast of Rev.12:3-4 that Satan originally rebelled with.

That deadly wound was back when Lucifer setup the old... "seven heads" beast system that he first rebelled with. Most likely, the head that suffered the "deadly wound" back then in that old world was the very area on earth that will suffer yet another... deadly wound when Lord Jesus Christ returns. Can you guess where that might be? Can you guess where on earth God has chose to put His Name there forever, and thus Satan wants it for his own, because he wants to be God, and worshiped as God? And that part, you can... call my speculation. But the part about the old Rev.12:3-4 beast kingdom of "seven crowns" that Satan originally rebelled with in the old world, that is not speculation.

As I have said many times, most Christians are steeped in the religious perspectives of the visible churches (aka church-ianity) and are being persuaded by the "scholarly learned" to "believe" in biblical prophecy according to THEIR ways of thinking by their pet "school" of thought.
I should remind you of:
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Davy]

As I have said many times, most Christians are steeped in the the religious perspectives of the visible churches (aka church-ianity) and are being persuaded by the "scholarly learned" to "believe" in biblical prophecy according to THEIR ways of thinking by their pet "school" of thought.
I should remind you of:
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

All I did was simply READ... the Bible Scripture... as written.

How many even bothered to notice the number "crowns" between Rev.12 and Rev.13 is different? Did you... before I told you? I even had to make one person read that Rev.12:3-4 four or five times over, before they actually saw the "seven crowns" word on the page!

Thus I am well aware how God can spiritually blind a person because of all sorts of reasons, and they all pile up to whether we listen to HIM, or to someone or something else. So why should HE reveal to us anything in His Word if all we do is rush to the Christian bookstore to buy the latest books written by authors that treat God's Word as tool for business?

Christ blessed those of His of the Church of Philadelphia, and set an open door (of His Truth) before them, because they kept... His Word.

 

[Earburner]

The Eight headed beast
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms], on which the woman [Jerusalem/Israel] sitteth. I urge you to be cautious here, to be sure that you are counting "heads" and not literal "kings".

Each beast of it's being has it's OWN head, even that of the "another beast with 2Hs".

Babylon- 1 head of Gold.
Med./Per.- 1 head of a Ram.
Grecian- 1 head of a He Goat, with a notable horn (Alex the Great).

Grecian Four generals- 4 heads.
[1 head of the 4 heads had a "little horn" of the Seleucid kingdom- Antiochus Epiphanese]. All 4 Grecian heads did wage war with Rome, before Rome officially became the 4th beast.
All the above heads do total to 7 heads.

Now we add in the Roman 4th Beast- having 1 head of itself, the 8th head.
8[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen...
The fallen kings are:
Nebuchadnezzar- 1 king
Med./Persia- 2 kings
Alex the Great- 1 king
Antiochus Epiphanes- 1 king
> Totalling 5 kings that have fallen.
And one is [the 7th king-Roman Emperor Domitian-96AD.] and [in the future] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And of course, that literally could be true, because Emperor Nerva, (after Domitian 96AD) did serve as Emperor for only 2 yrs. 4 mos., from 9-18-96AD to 1-28-98AD.
Indeed, 2 years and 4 months is "a short space". But, we are not talking about "emperors" here, we are talking about kingdoms, aka the "7th head" of the 10H Beast, which was wounded by a sword, and did live.
The 4th beast [Rome] never died but went incognito, by evolving into early Europe, the RCC/Papacy, the League of Nations, NATO and now the EU, from which shall appear the 10 horns.

[11] And the [4th] beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and IS OF the seven, and goeth into perdition.
So then, who is it that appeared on the world scene in 1776 as a "young beast" with two horns [small knubs], who IS OF [from out of] the 7 heads and has captured the world's attention?
Of course it is none other than the USA who is the 8th head
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest [on the Beast] are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Davy]

The Eight headed beast
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms], on which the woman [Jerusalem/Israel] sitteth. I urge you to be cautious here, to be sure that you are counting "heads" and not literal "kings".

I'm not the one with the problem of improperly counting those "seven heads". Counting is not... the issue. Keep what the Scripture... says they are is what determines it, and Rev.17:9 says they represent "seven mountains". But YOU instead have them as being seven kingdoms. So there's your 1st error.

And you are getting that idea of those "seven mountains" being kingdoms from the doctrines of men that you FOLLOW, as you were not the one who first came up with that idea.

Thus you are EXPOSED for keeping MEN'S TRADITIONS instead of keeping God's Word as written.

And I'm trying to warn you about that so you might consider how you are being misled by those men, and as long as you keep 'their' word over our Heavenly Father's Word, then don't expect The LORD to make His Word simple for you, like His Word actually is.

"seven mountains" of Rev.17:9 = seven areas of the earth, like the 7 continents. It represents GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS UPON the EARTH. Did each one of those EARTH REGIONS exist in a linear fashion, like one geographic location existing in one era, and then the next geographic location existing in the next era, and so on? NO! of course not. Such an idea like that is foolish. Likewise so is the idea of trying to make those areas of the earth to mean kingdoms of past history that flowed one after another, like Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Rome, etc.

The events which the Revelation 17 Chapter is covering are about the FINAL 'beast' kingdom at the END of this world just prior to Christ's future return, and... its beast king over it. And that coming beast king will be the 7th king of Rev.17:8. John only covers the previous 5 beast 'kings' in passing, and mentions the 6th beast king was present in his day (Roman emperor Domitian).

The 8th beast king of Rev.17:11 will be SATAN after... being loosed one final time after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, to go tempt the unsaved nations, as written in Revelation 20.

What you have essentially done, which you picked up from men's traditions, is confuse the difference in Rev.17 between the idea of the beast kingdom vs. the beast king. And that reveals you are no doubt also confused about that same subject in the Rev.13 Chapter.

 

[Earburner]

I'm not the one with the problem of improperly counting those "seven heads". Counting is not... the issue. Keep what the Scripture... says they are is what determines it, and Rev.17:9 says they represent "seven mountains". But YOU instead have them as being seven kingdoms. So there's your 1st error.

And you are getting that idea of those "seven mountains" being kingdoms from the doctrines of men that you FOLLOW, as you were not the one who first came up with that idea.

Thus you are EXPOSED for keeping MEN'S TRADITIONS instead of keeping God's Word as written.

And I'm trying to warn you about that so you might consider how you are being misled by those men, and as long as you keep 'their' word over our Heavenly Father's Word, then don't expect The LORD to make His Word simple for you, like His Word actually is.

"seven mountains" of Rev.17:9 = seven areas of the earth, like the 7 continents. It represents GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS UPON the EARTH. Did each one of those EARTH REGIONS exist in a linear fashion, like one geographic location existing in one era, and then the next geographic location existing in the next era, and so on? NO! of course not. Such an idea like that is foolish. Likewise so is the idea of trying to make those areas of the earth to mean kingdoms of past history that flowed one after another, like Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Rome, etc.

The events which the Revelation 17 Chapter is covering are about the FINAL 'beast' kingdom at the END of this world just prior to Christ's future return, and... its beast king over it. And that coming beast king will be the 7th king of Rev.17:8. John only covers the previous 5 beast 'kings' in passing, and mentions the 6th beast king was present in his day (Roman emperor Domitian).

The 8th beast king of Rev.17:11 will be SATAN after... being loosed one final time after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, to go tempt the unsaved nations, as written in Revelation 20.

What you have essentially done, which you picked up from men's traditions, is confuse the difference in Rev.17 between the idea of the beast kingdom vs. the beast king. And that reveals you are no doubt also confused about that same subject in the Rev.13 Chapter.

Rev. 17[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads ARE seven mountains, on which the woman [Jerusalem/Israel] sitteth.

The seven heads are:
Babylon- 1 head.
Medio-Persia- 1 head
Grecian Empire- 4 heads
Roman Empire- 1 head.
I don't necessarily agree with the following author's overall point of view. I am just pointing out how God declares that His symbolic use of the word "mountain" is a direct reference to a "kingdom".

Why the seven mountains in Revelation are kingdoms – Heaven Net

heavennet.net

 

[Davy]

Here is yet another Scripture matter which helps us DEFINE those "seven mountains" as being 7 concurrent locations or regions upon this earth that will be under the control of the coming beast king, the 7th king that Apostle John mentioned in Rev.17:8.

In the Daniel 2 Chapter, Daniel was given to prophesy of the FINAL BEAST KINGDOM for the very END of this world. Per Daniel 2, it will involve ALL... of the previously beast kingdoms represented in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

Dan 2:32-35
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

COUNT... the number of objects the above statue in Neb's dream that it was made up of. I count.. FIVE PIECES...

1. head of gold (Babylon-Nebuchadnezzar per Dan.2:38 which sets this)
2. breast and arms of silver (Medo-Persia)
3. belly and thighs of brass (Alexander's Grecia)
4. legs of iron (Roman empire)
5. feet of part iron and part clay (?? - the FINAL ONE)

How can there be FIVE beast kingdoms, since Dan.7 suggests there's only FOUR?

The next Daniel 2 verses is HOW we know... God gave 5 beasts in Neb's dream...

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" that was cut out without hands of course is a symbol for our Lord Jesus Christ, The Corner Stone which the builders rejected.

When Lord Jesus returns at the end of this world, He will symbolically smite that above final beast kingdom upon its ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay, and then the WHOLE beast statue, all FIVE of its pieces, will come tumbling down, and be no more.

What does that mean ultimately about the FINAL beast kingdom upon this earth for the END?

It means ALL OF THE PREVIOUS TYPE WORLD EMPIRES will be manifested TOGETHER in the FINAL BEAST KINGDOM at the END of this world. The history of the previous beast kingdoms had existed in STAGES, in different historical eras. Babylon empire was first, then the Medo-Persia empire took over, and then Grecia under Alexander the Great took over, then the Roman empire took over, following in a sequential order of history.

But NOT this FINAL beast kingdom at the END that will have ten toes made up of a mixture of iron and clay, which iron and clay don't actually mix! And just where in the beast statue is the heaviest piece? Yes! The head of GOLD, which is the heaviest piece! Thus the whole beast statue is TOP HEAVY! So when Jesus comes and symbolically smites that beast statue upon its feet of loosely mixed iron & clay, what's the beast statue going to do? It will fall apart, in pieces!!

Why then... do MEN'S FALSE DOCTRINES instead try to interpret that FINAL BEAST KINGDOM for the END of this world as if it were the ROMAN Church? It's because they see that symbol of "iron" in the beast statue feet, and the previous "legs of iron" did represent the old PAGAN Roman empire of history. So they believe today's Roman Catholic Church will become another PAGAN Roman empire over the world at the END. Yet Bible Scripture in no way... points to the Roman Church, no matter how much the "synagogue of Satan" tries to condemn it because of the old history of the Roman Church having dealt with the PAGAN Jewish OCCULTISTS back in European history, burning them as witches at the stake. Did you even know the Roman Church ended officially the Knights Templar order because of all the OCCULT paganism it picked up on their treks to the holy land? That order went deep into secrecy, and is now hidden within today's Masonry just as Weishaupt's Illuminati Order also is, and they want revenge upon the Roman Church still today!

So don't lose your Bible focus brethren in Christ. The Bible shows us that JERUSALEM and the unbelieving JEWS will be under the coming false-Messiah there in JERUSALEM, which will be the 7th beast king that John prophesied about in Rev.17. It ain't about ROME, it's about JERUSALEM under IDOL WORSHIP for the END of this world. That is why GOD is going to send His "two witnesses" to JERUSALEM to prophesy against the beast at the END.

 

[Davy]

Rev. 17[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads ARE seven mountains, on which the woman [Jerusalem/Israel] sitteth.

The seven heads are:
Babylon- 1 head.
Medio-Persia- 1 head
Grecian Empire- 4 heads
Roman Empire- 1 head.

Why the seven mountains in Revelation are kingdoms – Heaven Net

heavennet.net

You need to READ... that Rev,17:9 phrase again, "... on which the woman sitteth."

That "woman" of Rev.17 is the symbolic BABYLON HARLOT, which represents JERUSALEM at the end of this world.

She will symbolically be in power OVER ALL... of those "seven heads" which represent "seven mountains", which mean 7 LITERAL AREAS OF THE EARTH.

You do realize that when God's Word INTERPRETS a phrase or symbol for us, that means an EXPLANATION of what the symbol is? It don't mean it's just another symbol that we have to try and figure out. The "mountains" is NOT a symbol, it means 7 literal "mountains", geographical areas upon the earth. And THAT... is what the BABYLON HARLOT will sit over, meaning JERUSALEM will be the ruling city over all those 7 areas of the earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You need to READ... that Rev,17:9 phrase again, "... on which the woman sitteth."

That "woman" of Rev.17 is the symbolic BABYLON HARLOT, which represents JERUSALEM at the end of this world.

She will symbolically be in power OVER ALL... of those "seven heads" which represent "seven mountains", which mean 7 LITERAL AREAS OF THE EARTH.

You do realize that when God's Word INTERPRETS a phrase or symbol for us, that means an EXPLANATION of what the symbol is? It don't mean it's just another symbol that we have to try and figure out. The "mountains" is NOT a symbol, it means 7 literal "mountains", geographical areas upon the earth. And THAT... is what the BABYLON HARLOT will sit over, meaning JERUSALEM will be the ruling city over all those 7 areas of the earth.

Nope. The symbolic woman does not sit on literal things. And it's hilarious how you think that interpreting the seven mountains to be something other than mountains ("literal areas of the earth") is a case of interpreting the seven mountains literally. No, if you were interpreting that literally, then it would be referring to seven literal mountains, not seven literal areas of the earth.

In scripture, mountains sometimes symbolically represent kingdoms, but they never refer to "literal areas of the earth".

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns....15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The woman also sits on many waters and on a scarlet colored beast with seven heads and ten horns. Neither the many waters nor the scarlet colored beast that the woman sits on are literal. And the seven mountains she sits on are not literal, either. Again, a symbolic woman does not sit on literal things, but rather on symbolic things.

 

[ewq1938]

Its all past, this isn't future.

Rev is mostly future which is what prophecy is.

 

[ewq1938]

1. All prophetic beasts are in the masculine:

Wrong. NONE are in the masculine. The Hebrew word for beast is in the feminine, Daniel 7. And the Greek word for beast is neuter, Rev 13.

 

[ewq1938]

The Eight headed beast
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms], on which the woman [Jerusalem/Israel] sitteth. I urge you to be cautious here, to be sure that you are counting "heads" and not literal "kings".

And everyone else urges you not to change what the scripture says. It says 7 heads not 8. Rev warns against adding to the book.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev is mostly future which is what prophecy is.

Prophecy is future to when the prophecy was made. Revelation wasn't just written yesterday. It was about the past, present and future to when it was written.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And everyone else urges you not to change what the scripture says. It says 7 heads not 8. Rev warns against adding to the book.

Get a grip. I'm sure he was just referring to this and is not adding to the book as you falsely accuse...

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Earburner]

Here is yet another Scripture matter which helps us DEFINE those "seven mountains" as being 7 concurrent locations or regions upon this earth that will be under the control of the coming beast king, the 7th king that Apostle John mentioned in Rev.17:8.

In the Daniel 2 Chapter, Daniel was given to prophesy of the FINAL BEAST KINGDOM for the very END of this world. Per Daniel 2, it will involve ALL... of the previously beast kingdoms represented in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

Dan 2:32-35
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

COUNT... the number of objects the above statue in Neb's dream that it was made up of. I count.. FIVE PIECES...

1. head of gold (Babylon-Nebuchadnezzar per Dan.2:38 which sets this)
2. breast and arms of silver (Medo-Persia)
3. belly and thighs of brass (Alexander's Grecia)
4. legs of iron (Roman empire)
5. feet of part iron and part clay (?? - the FINAL ONE)

How can there be FIVE beast kingdoms, since Dan.7 suggests there's only FOUR?

The next Daniel 2 verses is HOW we know... God gave 5 beasts in Neb's dream...

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" that was cut out without hands of course is a symbol for our Lord Jesus Christ, The Corner Stone which the builders rejected.

When Lord Jesus returns at the end of this world, He will symbolically smite that above final beast kingdom upon its ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay, and then the WHOLE beast statue, all FIVE of its pieces, will come tumbling down, and be no more.

What does that mean ultimately about the FINAL beast kingdom upon this earth for the END?

It means ALL OF THE PREVIOUS TYPE WORLD EMPIRES will be manifested TOGETHER in the FINAL BEAST KINGDOM at the END of this world. The history of the previous beast kingdoms had existed in STAGES, in different historical eras. Babylon empire was first, then the Medo-Persia empire took over, and then Grecia under Alexander the Great took over, then the Roman empire took over, following in a sequential order of history.

But NOT this FINAL beast kingdom at the END that will have ten toes made up of a mixture of iron and clay, which iron and clay don't actually mix! And just where in the beast statue is the heaviest piece? Yes! The head of GOLD, which is the heaviest piece! Thus the whole beast statue is TOP HEAVY! So when Jesus comes and symbolically smites that beast statue upon its feet of loosely mixed iron & clay, what's the beast statue going to do? It will fall apart, in pieces!!

Why then... do MEN'S FALSE DOCTRINES instead try to interpret that FINAL BEAST KINGDOM for the END of this world as if it were the ROMAN Church? It's because they see that symbol of "iron" in the beast statue feet, and the previous "legs of iron" did represent the old PAGAN Roman empire of history. So they believe today's Roman Catholic Church will become another PAGAN Roman empire over the world at the END. Yet Bible Scripture in no way... points to the Roman Church, no matter how much the "synagogue of Satan" tries to condemn it because of the old history of the Roman Church having dealt with the PAGAN Jewish OCCULTISTS back in European history, burning them as witches at the stake. Did you even know the Roman Church ended officially the Knights Templar order because of all the OCCULT paganism it picked up on their treks to the holy land? That order went deep into secrecy, and is now hidden within today's Masonry just as Weishaupt's Illuminati Order also is, and they want revenge upon the Roman Church still today!

So don't lose your Bible focus brethren in Christ. The Bible shows us that JERUSALEM and the unbelieving JEWS will be under the coming false-Messiah there in JERUSALEM, which will be the 7th beast king that John prophesied about in Rev.17. It ain't about ROME, it's about JERUSALEM under IDOL WORSHIP for the END of this world. That is why GOD is going to send His "two witnesses" to JERUSALEM to prophesy against the beast at the END.

I don't believe anything special about the Papacy/RCC. I understand it to be only one of the 4th beast's many manifestations of its ever evolving/changing nature.
Jerusalem and the Papacy are simply the man made religions of M,BTG, the MOTHER of harlots, that fallen WOMAN that has SAT on all the seven heads.

 

[Davy]

I don't believe anything special about the Papacy/RCC. I understand it to be only one of the 4th beast's many manifestations of its ever evolving/changing nature.

I was not insinuating that you did believe what I said about the Roman Church as a revived Roman empire for the end. Yet many Preterists and Historicists do believe just that.

The Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with the old Pagan Roman empire. Any suggestion that it does again is from men's doctrines of the Preterists and Historicists, which include those stuck on the old 16th century doctrines of the Protestant Reformation and thus wrongly believe the pope is the Antichrist.

(And no, I am not a Catholic. I am a Protestant, though I do not claim any particular denomination. My ancestors were French Protestants that came to the Americas, to Virginia colony, because of that 16th century persecution by the Catholic Church against French Protestants. They settled eventually in South Carolina.)

Jerusalem and the Papacy are simply the man made religions of M,BTG, the MOTHER of harlots, that fallen WOMAN that has SAT on all the seven heads.

Who told you that Rev.17 symbolic "woman", "great whore", "HARLOT", is the Papacy? That is a doctrine from Preterism and Historicism. It is not Biblical. That shows that you have... been influenced by men's traditions from those type seminary schools of Bible teachings. Believing that symbolic "great whore" is about the Roman Church, or any... Christian Church is a doctrine of men, and has left what that Rev.17 Scripture actually says as written. If you want to know the Truth, then stick with God's Word as written.

The last verse of Revelation 17 reveals what the symbolic "woman", the BABYLON HARLOT is. It is the "great city", not a pope, not the Antichrist, not any deceived Church, but a city. And Revelation 11:8 reveals that "great city" is JERUSALEM for the END, where our Lord Jesus was crucified.

You might also want to study the Ezekiel 16 Chapter also, which reveals how our Heavenly Father feels about Jerusalem when it slides into false worship. He is Who first called Jerusalem a 'harlot' when it fell into idol worship by the Jews in its past history.

 

[Earburner]

And everyone else urges you not to change what the scripture says. It says 7 heads not 8. Rev warns against adding to the book.

Rev. adds in the 8th head. I don't have to.

 

[Earburner]

The last verse of Revelation 17 reveals what the symbolic "woman", the BABYLON HARLOT is. It is the "great city", not a pope, not the Antichrist, not any deceived Church, but a city. And Revelation 11:8 reveals that "great city" is JERUSALEM for the END, where our Lord Jesus was crucified.

If you would look more closely, you will see that I included Jerusalem of the OC with that of the Papacy of the NC as being the fulness of who M,BTG, the MOTHER [feminine] of harlots [feminine] is.

Also, don't forget that the Papacy/RCC does call itself the "Mother church" of the NC.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

The West is in great debit while the East is very rich, untold wealth.

Also, businesses, civil society and governments all bow to the Un`s moral values and make then laws. Look on your food packaging and see the `sustainable etc.` That is all to do with the `earth religion.` And you try and speak out against GLB etc or pray near an abortion clinic and you will be fined or put in jail.

Hi Marilyn,

The rich merchants of the earth are the ones that developed the oil fields of the East, and these merchants were made rich by the secularization of the West through the magisterial Protestants’ intercourse with the kings of the earth. According to numerous Christian historians the major moral decline of the Church started with the secularization of society, which common sense supports. There are even secular historians that affirm that the Church’s moral authority in the markets ended when the Protestants wounded the papal authority. This coincides with the zeitgeist of the modern Church,

Revelation 3:
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: KJV

Author E. J. Haubsbawm was an unbeliever that wrote about the rise of the merchants in his book The Age of Capital, in which he affirmed the rise of the merchants was promoted by Protestantism, while the papacy remonstrated.

If you are interested, I can share a number of these authors for you. History affirms the rise of the merchant and the moral decline of the Church occurred long before the UN came into existence,

Revelation 18:
3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living." ESV

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Trying to create a 3rd group with the sheep and goats separation by Christ is an UNBELIEVING JEWISH STRATEGY AGAINST CHRIST'S CHURCH.

You only MOCK Jesus Christ with your speaking against His sheep...

John 10:7-11
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before Me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
KJV

So you can take your false Jew mocking back to your brethren of the "synagogue of Satan", we know who you really are.

Unlike you, Davy, I address all the points of contention presented, which you dodge, which reveals I have the greater understanding from the Most High. You fail to grasp that Christ reveals he has other sheep from different folds,

John 10:
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The parable in Matthew 25 clearly demonstrates that Christ has sheep among the NATIONS when he returns with the bride, whom he meets in the clouds before taking his seat on his throne (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17),

Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The passage above is clear that the sheep in the context represent the NATIONS, not the bride, which is supported by 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and Revelation 21,

Revelation 21
23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.
24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,

Revelation 21 clearly make a clear distinction between the bride/Jerusalem and the NATIONS that bring their glory to her. We see this also supported in Zechariah 14 that prophecies that all those who are left of the NATIONS when Christ returns must observe Tabernacles,

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Note that in Zechariah 14:5 Christ brings his HOLY ONES with him when he returns, which is what the NT supports in passages like Matthew 13:41 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. In essence, Christ separates the bride from the goats prior to his return to the earth, which is contrary to your assertion there are just two groups in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Furthermore, the bride is described as a NATION, singular, and not in the plural,

1 Peter 2
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Malevolence lies in those who boast they represent the Most High while trying to defame the brethren holding the greater arguments, like you do. If you have the truth, why don’t you address all the pertinent passage that shed light on the issue, instead of evading them? In truth, you always resort to childish ad hominems instead of contending with the evidence. That’s hubris.

Again, tell us why Christ must join the bride with the goats again to separate them a second time in order that there be but two groups when he returns?