Selene said:
It means that you belong to the entire mystical body of Christ along with us. If you look at the Heading listed under CCC 838, it says "Who Belongs To the Catholic Church?" So, if you read CCC 836 -838, it answers that question. The Heading says: Who belongs to the Catholic Church? It answered the question with: The Catholic faithful, OTHERS who believe in Christ, and all mankind called by God's grace to salvation. However, if you don't believe me, that is not my problem.
Regardless of what you believe I can clearly read, and If the church is truly based on Christ why do I read this.
The church is Mary, and the high office is Peter, in all of this just where is the foundation laid, I don't see Jesus name anywhere do you?
Mary is the church
829 "But while in the most Blessed Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle, the faithful still strive to conquer sin and increase in holiness.
And so they turn their eyes to Mary":306 in her, the Church is already the "all-holy."
and Peter is the pope
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety
or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323
With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324
HammerStone said:
Rex, the imperfect communion clause is not quite what you think. They're simply verbalizing the same sentiments we have, as Protestants, about them. We are not in perfect agreement about doctrine. That's all the statement is in that catechism. Yes, I know of several Catholics who do maintain we are an imperfect church, but I see you also saying very similar things about them. It's not ideal, but it's okay we say different things.
There are a number of ways that I could have written this statement:
We affirm that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are Christian, although there may be differences of opinion, doctrine, and tradition.
At the end of the day I went this route.
No one has disputed the fact that catholic members aren't perfect, the matter concerns the office of the church, it's doctrine and rituals are considered perfect.
At the end of the day people see and understand what they choose to
that's why it's important to post both scripture and dogma, let the reader decide, or compare what is said with what is written.
I'm certainly not going to follow anyone that comes to me in the name of Peter, or become a member of Marys church,
in her, the Church is already the "all-holy.
Selene got offended when I disagreed with her on the Ark being the church, by her understanding. It represents God in both the flood and the Temple, working salvation not a church. God gave Noah the means of salvation from the flood "ark" by being faithful, The Ark in the temple is representative of God dwelling among the people, it's not a church. But it easy to understand her opinion when you read the catechism they teach the RCC is the ark and Mary, see 829
When I make my case I'm bashing catholics? when I'm disagreeing with her statement which is rotted in her faith. So I don't see the solution to the problem unless were going make disagreeing with catholics a violation of forum rules.
Aspen he was simply on a protestant rant and I posted after his comments.
I already had the catechism open replying to Selene when he went on his little protestant rant.
What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262
So tell me where is the body of Christ in this reading of the catechism