bbyrd009 Ft Myers FL

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bbyrd009

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hi i'm Mark Whittington, 55, saved baptist at 14, came through charismatic, messianic prosperity, free will gospel, then oneness pentecostalism, to...heretic, i guess, pretty much :)
 

Angelina

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Hi Mark!
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Glad to have you join us...looking forward to your posts
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Bless you!
 

Stranger

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Mark

Welcome. That's quite a resume.

Stranger
 

bbyrd009

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hmm, i guess? struck me as a better idea to stay a student--if everyone has a little truth--rather than "pick a religion."

it has served me well so far.

tks guys
 

rockytopva

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Love visiting the Cape Coral Fort Myers Area! I have visited the SOnshine Worship Center on occasion.
 

bbyrd009

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ya, it's paradise for some, i guess. my parents retired here. They went to that church for a couple years! mom speaks well of it.
 

Born_Again

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Welcome to CyB, Mark. Its good to see you have dived right into the discussions!

God Bless,

BA
 
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bbyrd009

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About the midst of the feast of Sukkot Yeshua went up into the temple and taught. The Yhudim therefore wondered, saying, How does this one know letters, (γραμματα), not having been discipled? Yeshua therefore answered them, and said, My teaching is not my own but His that sent me: if anyone desires to do His will, the same shall know the teaching, whether it is of Elohim, or whether I speak from myself. The one speaking from himself seeks his own glory: but the one seeking the glory of Him that sent him, the same is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. Did not Moshe give you the Torah? and yet no one of you does the Torah, (John 7:14-19b).

How is it that Yeshua knows letters, (γραμματα), without having been discipled and taught by the Rabbins and teachers of the Torah? How is it that the Yhudim understood that he should not be able to read and understand the Torah without their own discipleship from their own teachers? It is because the Torah contained the letters, (γραμματα), but they were not pointed, (στικτα), as it is today in the Masorete Hebrew text, (which is only about one thousand years old as of now). Accordingly therefore it was assumed that one could not read and understand the Torah without the teachers of the people being heavily involved in the training of the student. This means that the Rabbins, Elders, Scribes, and teachers of the Torah had already inserted themselves into the Torah by way of their own interpretations of an unfinished text. However Yeshua was able to read it without letter pointing or any instruction from the Rabbins and teachers of the Torah: and that is precisely why his doctrine was diametrically opposed to their own, for they had already by this time inserted themselves and their own interpretations into the readings of the text, that is, their own understanding as for how to read the letters of the text.

The Torah was not intended to be fully complete and understandable when it was rewritten under Ezra. It was specifically designed to be left incomplete until Messiah would come to fully expound all things. This is why Moshe set judges over the people, so as to make judgements based on their reading and understanding of the written text, and by the Spirit of the Law; for in the long term the truth would come to light, after sufficient debate and argument back and forth, as to what is the most proper understanding in any given situation. But man always has the predisposition to clarify laws so that judgment and condemnation may be carried out. Because of these things the rulers and judges of the people had cursed themselves by the time Yeshua arrived on the scene because they had inserted themselves and their own carnal interpretations into the text through discipleship into their own self-certified training programs. This is why Yeshua says elsewhere that they had left out the weightier matters of the Torah: just judgment, (justice), compassionate mercy and grace, and trusting-faithfulness-belief, (Matthew 23:23), for these things were to come not by the letter, for they are not in the letter, but by the Spirit through the judges who were set up to make such determinations. And that is why mercy and grace are not often mentioned in the Torah; for it is likewise a trial for the reader, to see what "the judge" will do with the text before him, (or her), and therefore the entire understanding depends on the heart and mindset of the reader. But the Yhudim, even in the time of Yeshua, had taken that away from the people by way of their strict enforcement of their own interpretations through their own training in their own schools. If the reader loves YHWH Elohim with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the mind, then the reader will not see YHWH Elohim as a vengeful and merciless Creator but rather the One who is love and loves His creation and people.

Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; for you tithe mint, and anise, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the Torah: justice, (right-judgment), and compassion-merciful-graciousness, and trusting-faithfulness-belief: these things are necessary to be done, (when you insert your spirit of understanding into the letter), and the same you leave undone! (Matthew 23:23).
not sure about the morph from "...but rather the One who is love and loves His creation and people" right to "Woe unto you..." gonna have to sleep on that one :)
 

bbyrd009

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Problem is, Hanni, mainstream modern dogma teaches people that they cannot stop sinning to begin with so most never actually even try, (despite what Yeshua says), and then they heap on more troubles by the implied teaching that there really is no need to even try to stop habitual sinning because "Jesus did it all" in their place, as their substitute, (and if you even try to stop habitual sinning you have "fallen from grace", and if you mention it out loud you have become a "Judaizer", lol, (and I know you know what I mean)). In such a construct all that is necessary is a one time confession of "faith" and suddenly one can be "saved for all eternity", (and anyone who disagrees is going straight to hell with the devil and his angels), no matter how much spiritual fornication and idolatry continues in practice. The "grace only" crowd are the most vicious when it comes to defending such arguments: you cannot persuade them no matter how much N/T scripture you put in front of them because you are essentially trying to change their lifestyle of "liberty" even though it mostly goes unsaid. They will in no uncertain terms tell you exactly who the devil is, (*you*), if you disagree with them in such things.
The conscience is a garment even as Paul says it can be "seared", (as if with a hot iron, which speaks of clothing), which means that it is indeed likened to a garment. But Paul explains the adversary in terms other than simply the adversary, (diabolos or satanas), for in the passage where he does so he uses kategoreo, (to bring charges or to accuse like a plaintiff in a court case).

For when the nations not having a Torah do by nature the things of Torah, these not having Torah are a Torah unto themselves: which show the work of the Torah written in their hearts, their conscience jointly-testifying, (like two witnesses), and between one another their thoughts either accusing or else excusing them in the day when Elohim shall judge the secrets of men according to my good news through Messiah Yeshua, (Romans 2:14-16).

See what that truly says? See the high probability of two witnesses in this passage which are generally hidden from view in most English renderings? (for it truly says and means jointly-testifying, which implies two witnesses). See how neither of the two witnesses are "the accuser" but rather the thoughts of the person? The thoughts of the guilty accuse them in their own minds and that is why it is critical that over and over Paul speaks of how important it is to have a clean and clear conscience, (which is likened to a white robe, the best robe). Elohim will not be mocked; He made man in His own image, and He is the Great Psychologist over and above every psychologist. No one is going to outsmart Him because He created the court of law right within our very own hearts and minds as part of our very own creation, existence, and being. When a person truly resolves to stop committing transgression, in the name of Yeshua, and begins to purge and cleanse the conscience by doing the Testimony of Yeshua out of love; no doubt a war in the heavens will commence: and in an appointed time the Satan will be cast out of their heavens, (and after that his time is short, but it is to each in his or her own appointed times).
Who told you that you were naked?
 

bbyrd009

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If you start with a cage containing five monkeys and inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set of stairs under the banana, before long a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the banana.
As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys with cold water.
After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result... all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.


Now, put the cold water away.
Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one.
The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a new one.
The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment...... with enthusiasm, because he is now part of the "team".
Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by the fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.
Now, the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.
Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, not one of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway for the banana.
Why, you ask? Because in their minds...that is the way it has always been!
 

bbyrd009

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In this night of seventeen Abib Yeshua was arrested: for Yhudas which betrayed him knew the place, for Yeshua much often resorted there with his talmidim and taught the people in Temple Olivet. Yhudas then, having received the multitude of a band of men and officers from the Kohanim and Pharisees, came to the place with lanterns and torches and weapons like a flood. Yeshua therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom do you seek? They answered him, Yeshua Nazaret. Yeshua says to them, I am he, and Yhudas also which betrayed him stood with them: and as soon as Yeshua had said unto them, I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground. Then he asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Yeshua Nazaret. Yeshua answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore you seek me, let these go their way: so that the saying might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Of them which you gave me, Father, none have I lost. Then the band and the captain and officers of the Yhudim took Yeshua, and bound him, and they led him away first to Ananus ben Seth, for he was the Ab Bet Din over Kaiaphas who was the chief Kohen and Nasiy that year. Ananus then demanded information concerning two primary things: he questioned Yeshua concerning his talmidim and concerning his doctrine. But Yeshua answered him nothing concerning his beloved taught ones, and of his doctrine, Yeshua said, I spoke openly to the world: I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the Temple, where unto the Yhudim always resort, and in secret have I said nothing, (that has not been said in the open). Why do you ask me? Ask them which heard me what I have said to them: behold, they know what I said. Which is to say in not so many words, Call your witnesses and take it before the Sanhedrin, for he likewise knew that they would not convict him; for if they did, he would thus die by stoning and not at the hands of the Romans on a stake. And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Yeshua with the palm of his hand, saying, You answer the chief Kohen in such a manner? Yeshua answered him, If I have spoken evil, then bear witness of the evil: but if well, why then do you smite me? Therefore Ananus ben Seth, the Ab Bet Din, bound him over to stand trial before Kaiaphas the Nasiy Kohen and the Sanhedrin. And with the daylight dawning of seventeen Abib Yeshua was bound and lowered into the underground dungeon, that is, the pit which is below the Sanhedrin; wherein he awaited trial before the council of twenty three. As it is written, and as Messiah Yeshua foretold, An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, yet no sign shall be given to it except the sign of HaNavi Yonah: for as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the Land three days and three nights!
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bbyrd009

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In the morning of seventeen Abib the Ab Bet Din, Ananus ben Seth, dispatched heralds for any witnesses of the controversial public statements of Yeshua to be summoned so as appear and testify in the trial of Yeshua. And though the Kohanim sought only false witnesses they would not dare be so bold as to let such a thing be known to the people. So any witnesses, whosoever they be, were summoned to appear before the Kohanim for questioning in two days, that is, in the nineteenth day of the month Abib. Those whose testimony fell out against Yeshua were those that were held over for the main trial, which was set for twenty Abib, the final Preparation Day before the Great High Shabbat Gadol of the Passover Feast and Feast of Matzot. However many had begun to wonder what happened to Yeshua, those who were not of his immediate followers, for they sought him at the Temple during the feast. And when those who came to testify in his behalf were rejected, then they knew what had happened, and where he was, that is, in the dungeon below the Sanhedrin awaiting trial. Those therefore which held a favorable opinion of Yeshua tarried close by, hoping for an opportunity to speak in his defense, and many of them were those having been healed through the Master. Moreover the Kohanim partake of the week-long offerings in the later portion of the day, during the feast, so that the day is much abbreviated for them during this time: for in the mornings the Kohanim have duties concerning the public sacrifices, and in the evening time the same partake in the week-long daily Passover public offerings, (BaMidbar 28:16-25), two bullocks, sons of the herd; one ram; seven lambs of the first year, (and one shaggy goat sin offering).

In the morning of eighteen Abib the chief Kohanim Ananus and Kaiaphas began to interview and select by hand the twenty three members of the Sanhedrin criminal division of the court which would try the case of Yeshua, who was now formally accused as a mesith, which is to say, a beguiler who leads a city or town astray; for which the penalty is death by stoning, to be carried out at a feast, so that all the people may hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously, (for such is the interpretation of that passage in the laws of the Sanhedrin). In such cases where one is accused of being a mesith the threshhold for conviction is much lower than it is in lesser criminal cases. His case may be begun by day and finished by night; they may begin and end it on the same day, whether he be guilty or not; they may arrive at a verdict by a majority of one whether it be for conviction or acquittal; all may plead for acquittal or all for conviction; one who pleads for acquittal may retract and plead for conviction. The eunuch and the childless can act as judges; and even those who are biased in the direction of severity.

In the morning of nineteen Abib the Ab Bet Din Ananus ben Seth and Kaiaphas the Nasiy Prince began interviewing witnesses so as to decide which testimonies were to be heard before the Sanhedrin council of twenty three which they themselves had selected to be the judges; for the criminal court of twenty three is drawn from the full council of seventy one, and thus, Simon Eleazar Lazaros, Archon Nikodemos, and Yoseph of Arimathaea were removed, though they were Elders, so that they should have no say in defense of Yeshua in the criminal court of the twenty three, (they three were removed from the committee of Ten Elders because they opposed the council, yea, as if three horns plucked out by the roots). Thus it was that in the morning of seventeen Abib Yeshua was held in the dungeon, the pit wherein is no water below the Sanhedrin, in the heart of the Land; and in the night and the morning of eighteen Abib the same is true, and in the night and the morning of nineteen of Abib the same is true, and in the night of the twentieth the same is true: thus were filled up the three days and three nights which Yeshua had foretold, for in the dawning of the morning of twenty Abib the Master Teacher Messiah Yeshua was brought to trial before the Sanhedrin council at the rising of the sun.
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bbyrd009

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Angelina said:
The material you are quoting seems very familiar to me brother bbyrd009....reminds me of my brother daq :huh:
"haDevarium of Deuteronomy?"
yup, that's him alright!

(I take it you do not mean "blood brother" though, right)