Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

[Behold]

Hilarious. So obeying Jesus' commandment to "love one another" does not please God. Jesus also said, "If you love me you will obey my commandments" (John 14:15). But you say, "No, Jesus, you're wrong - obeying the commandments does not please God."

You should be in the circus - you're a clown.

Faith pleases God.
Discipleship is what we are supposed to be doing, which is "presenting our bodies a living sacrifice".
Pleasing God is a different situation.
See, you can be a hell bound sinner and be a disciple so Christ, spending your life somewhere taking care of street orphans, twisting beads, praying to Mary.
That does not please God..
What pleases God is YOUR FAITH.
Correct Faith.. Walking in the Spirit.
"without faith, its impossible to pleased God".
Notice, roger, that the verse does NOT SAY...>"without works, its impossible to please God".

 

[justbyfaith]

Faith pleases God.
Discipleship is what we are supposed to be doing, which is "presenting our bodies a living sacrifice".
Pleasing God is a different situation.
See, you can be a hell bound sinner and be a disciple so Christ, spending your life somewhere taking care of street orphans, twisting beads, praying to Mary.
That does not please God..
What pleases God is YOUR FAITH.
Correct Faith.. Walking in the Spirit.
"without faith, its impossible to pleased God".
Notice, roger, that the verse does NOT SAY...>"without works, its impossible to please God".

Of course, if you have genuine faith, works will follow as the fruit of faith (Titus 3:14).

 

[RogerDC]

Of course, good works please God.

We are saying that they do not save a man. Holy scripture is clear on that.

James 2:26 says "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26) ...

but YOU say, "No James, you're wrong - faith without works is alive ... so alive, in fact, that faith without works will save you."

 

[mjrhealth]

that faith without works will save you

The only work we are called to do is believe, all the works comes from doing the will of thew father as Christ did, not ones own works. Many will be saved with works as many as will be saved with out works, and many with works will be rejected, simply as what the did was of them selves not of God. But all our works are worthless, none will get you in the door.

 

[RogerDC]

Being attacked by a false teacher only serves to substantiate my credentials as a true one.

In my opinion, both you and Behold are false teachers - evidenced by your childishly-illogical, shallow and unintelligent theologies. I wouldn't trust
either of you to even teach at Sunday school.

 

[RogerDC]

The only work we are called to do is believe, all the works comes from doing the will of thew father as Christ did, not ones own works. Many will be saved with works as many as will be saved with out works, and many with works will be rejected, simply as what the did was of them selves not of God. But all our works are worthless, none will get you in the door.

James says faith without works is DEAD (James 2:26), but YOU say DEAD FAITH saves. Hilarious!

 

[RogerDC]

The only work we are called to do is believe, all the works comes from doing the will of the father

The will of the Father is that you obey his Son, who said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15). There are many commandments described in the NT, but the most important one is to love your neighbour - which is WORKS. So the will of the Father is to not just have faith, but to do good. works as well. Good works are simply obeying his commandments, by which our faith is "completed" (James 2:21-22).

 

[mjrhealth]

The will of the Father is that you obey his Son, who said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15). There are many commandments described in the NT, but the most important one is to love your neighbour - which is WORKS. So the will of the Father is to not just have faith, but to do good. works as well. Good works are simply obeying his commandments, by which our faith is "completed" (James 2:21-22).

His Will is that we believe in the works that His son has done, His will is that, as Jesus put it,

Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

That is our work, anything else is,

(Luk 17:7) But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
(Luk 17:8) And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
(Luk 17:9) Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
(Luk 17:10) So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

But men need to boast, look up to heaven, puff there chests out and beat them and declare there goodness before the people and God.

 

[justbyfaith]

James 2:26 says "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26) ...

but YOU say, "No James, you're wrong - faith without works is alive ... so alive, in fact, that faith without works will save you."

Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), and Ephesians 2:8-9 all teach us that works do not save us.

I have said that if anyone has a genuine faith, it will produce a change of character and a change of life. And this is what it means that faith without works is dead.

But the change of life and character does not save us....the change of life and character is salvation. So we are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone...and this salvation will normally produce good works (except in rare situations, llike the thief on the cross). In those rare situations, the person was saved without works...God imputed righteousness to them apart from works...to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted to him for righteousness.

In my opinion, both you and Behold are false teachers - evidenced by your childishly-illogical, shallow and unintelligent theologies. I wouldn't trust
either of you to even teach at Sunday school.

It is par for the course that a true teacher must endure quips like this....for Jesus said that those who are made subject to such things are indeed blessed (Matthew 5:10-12, Luke 6:22-23, 2 Timothy 3:10-12).

I think that you are also not seeing the reality of what is being taught. Otherwise you would be saved by what I am preaching to you. You would no longer be attempting to save yourself by your own works. You would rest in the salvation that God had given you...and would do good works out of gratitude to Him for the salvation that He had wrought in your life.

 

[RogerDC]

His Will is that we believe in the works that His son has done, His will is that, as Jesus put it,

So, Jesus said,
“This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you” (John 15:12), and
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

… and you're saying this is not the will of God?!!

 

[RogerDC]

Abraham's work may have justified him before God....however you should also realize that Abraham was justified by his faith alone all the way back in Genesis 15:6...it is written that God counted his faith to him at that time as righteousness.

You assume that being justified by faith is the end of the story and nothing further is required for salvation. But that is incorrect: Having being justified by faith, God then tests our faith, and he tests our faith by our obedience to his commandments - ie, our WORKS. That is what you don’t understand. Salvation requires TWO JUSTIFICATIONS: (1) Justification by FAITH, which is followed by (2) justification by WORKS (James 2:24). Being “justified by works” is how our faith is “completed” (James 2:21-22).

This is why, even though Abraham was justified by his faith, God still had to test his faith, so that his faith could be “completed” by being “justified by works (James 2:21-22) - God achieved that by commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham obeyed God’s commandment by offering to sacrifice Isaac - thus Abraham passed the test and was “justified by works”, which “completed” his faith. commandments.

Consider Adam and Eve: After they were created, they lived in the very presence of God, but God still tested them. How did he test them? He tested them with a commandment: Thy shalt not eat from that tree. In other words, God tested them by their WORKS of obedience.

Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15) - in other words, Jesus tests our hearts and faith by our obedience to his commandments - ie, our WORKS.

Because God, being omniscient, already knew that his faith was genuine; and had counted Abraham's faith alone as being righteousness some 20-40 years before in Genesis 15:6.

Gen 15:6 says Abraham believed the Lord, who “reckoned it to him as righteousness”. Gen 15:6 does not say, we are saved by faith alone. Faith is not the only form of righteousness - obeying God’s commandments is also righteousness. To be declared “righteousness” (justified) requires faith and obedience - ie, faith and works.

God, being omniscient, already knew that his faith was genuine

According to scripture, God did NOT know Abraham’s faith was genuine until God tested him. After Abraham passed the test (by offering to sacrifice Isaac), God said this: “Do not lay you hand on the lad or do anything to him, for NOW I KNOW that you fear God” (Genesis 22:12). “ In other works, God got to “KNOW” Abraham’s faith was genuine only after he tested him. So God tested Abraham’s faith because that is the only way God could know for sure what Abraham had in his heart … and that is why God tests the hearts and faith of all believers. “God tests our hearts” (1Thess 2:4).

 

[RogerDC]

Isaiah 64:6 refers to all who seek to be righteous through their keeping of the law / works / obedience / performance.

The illogical absurdity of your theology never ceases to amaze. For starters, you need to understand that we become RIGHTEOUS precisely by OBEYING God’s laws; we become UN-RIGHTEOUS by DISOBEYING God’s laws (Romans 6:16, 1Peter 1:14-17, 1John 3:7).

Next, God gave the Law to be OBEYED - why on earth would God give laws if he didn’t want people to obey them? And God says he will greatly REWARD those who obey his laws (Lev 26). In Matt 19:16-19, the rich young man asks Jesus, “What good DEED must I do to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” … Jesus answers him by citing some the Ten Commandments.

But you claim that Isaiah 64:6 says being righteous by obeying God’s Law is as “dirty rags” to God! All you have to do is read the chapter to understand that the “dirty rags” in Isaiah 64:6 refers to righteous deeds done without faith in the true God. But evidently that simple task is beyond your intellectual ability.

The only righteousness that counts is the righteousness which is of faith in God

Nonsense. James 2:24 says we are justified by faith AND WORKS.

In Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God. Obviously, works of righteousness matter a great deal.​

You need to righteous inside (faith) and outside (works):
“Put to death what is earthly in you: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these things, the wrath of God is coming. In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away … seeing that you have put off the old man, with his practices, and have put on the new man, who is being renewed in knowledge after the image of his creator ” (Col 3:5-11).

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi, @RogerDC,

Going from last to first,

First of all, I want to quote Philippians 3:9, and go from there.

Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

"My own righteousness, which is of the law," was rejected by Paul for "the righteousness which is of God by faith."

Secondly, God gave the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24)...so that they might understand that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20). The law doesn't save (Galatians 3:21) but it does have the power to convert a soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)). It converts souls by showing them that they are sinners (again, Romans 3:20); and they turn to Christ for the remedy; and are saved through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Do you believe that the Lord is Omniscient?

Abraham was justified by his faith alone in Genesis 15:6...his work of faith did not come until many chapters later...yet he was justified in the verse in question. God saw his faith and credited it to him as righteousness.

Now, as for God testing us and our works being the evidence for our faith...consider that the only "work" that the thief on the cross even did was to say, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." So, I would say, that the only work that is required of us is something similar...to confess the Lordship of Jesus Christ while believing that God raised Him from the dead. This is the gold that will come forth when our faith is tested; and it is all that is required.

 

[mjrhealth]

So, Jesus said,
“This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you” (John 15:12), and
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

… and you're saying this is not the will of God?!!

There is only one Love,which so many people cant seem to do.

 

[mjrhealth]

so alive, in fact, that faith without works will save you."

What do you think your works will save yo?? So much foolishness.. Dont you believe...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

you ready to boast?