What? Let YOU be the judge of how to interpret scripture? You’ve got to joking!
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You can know that you know that you know that you are saved even in this life.
John 5:24 bears out that if you "hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him" you "have everlasting life", "shall not come into condemnation", and, "have passed from death into life."
Consider that the first and last there can be combined to say that you have passed from death into everlasting life if you hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him.
Also, 1 John 5:13 tells us that we can know that we have everlasting life.
And so does Romans 8:16.
I know that I am saved and I am saved.
Not on an "ignorant interpretation" and not only based on scripture...for Romans 8:16 tells us that if we know that we are saved, it is because the Spirit of the Lord bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
I think that if I cannot interpret scripture correctly, then you cannot interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church correctly. And that neither can you interpret correctly any explanations that might be given to you by a priest concerning the correct interpretation of the Catechism.
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So, Abraham has whereof to glory (before men) and is justified before man, because of works done apart from faith?
(Clearly, Abraham was justified by works period and not works done apart from faith; however this justification was before man and not God.)
Realize, my friend, that scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)); and that Romans 4:2 interprets James 2 and that James 2 interprets Romans 4:2.
Therefore, when you compare spiritual thing with spiritual thing, you find that Romans 4:2 is referring to the work that justified Abraham, his offering Isaac on the later; which was a work done in faith.
Also, Abraham was justified by faith all the way back in Genesis 15:6, about 20-30 years before he offered his son Isaac on the altar. He was justified, then, by faith alone.
The work done in faith 20-30 years later also justified him (but not before God. Before the Lord he was justified by the faith that he had 20-30 years earlier and persisted to that day)...in that it demonstrated the genuine faith that was in Abraham's heart all the way back in Genesis 15:6.
Study Hebrews 11...
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
James 2:21 says Abraham was justified by his works - ie, his obedience in offering His son Isaac as a sacrifice.
Are you saying this means Abraham was justified "before MEN" by his works of obedience, not justified before God?
Im Saying that Paul said that "" IF Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
= Paul said....>"Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it (belief not works) were counted to him, credited to him, as RIGHTEOUSNESS">
"faith is counted as Righteousness".
"Justified by FAITH".
"faith without works". = GRACE.
The Gospel of the GRACE OF GOD, = "" GOD saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, (no works) but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.""
Thats what im saying.
Same as the last 400 times, and the next 400,000 times, in case you need to asked me that many more times, Roger.
You didn't answer my question. James 2:21 says Abraham was "justified by works" - namely, his obedience to God in offering his son Isaac as a sacrifice. Abraham's works "justified" him before whom - men or God?
Wrong. Read the previous verse, Romans 4:1 - it says "according to the flesh". Do you know what that means? It means the opposite of "done in faith" - it means done without faith. That's what the next verse is referring to: Abraham works done without faith ("according to the flesh") would impress only men, not God.
Really? By obeying God, Abraham's works (offering to sacrifice Isaac) justified him before men and not God. What sort of logic is that?! Abraham's offered to kill his son at God's request and Abraham obedience meant nothing to God, only to men? Hilarious!
And what "men" are you talking about? When Abraham offered to sacrifice Isaac, they were alone in the wilderness - there were no other "men" there to see what happened. Imagine … when Abraham came back to civilization, he said to his neighbours, "Hey fellas, guess what I just did? I offered to sacrifice my only son on an altar. I did that because God told me to." HIs neighbours said, "Wow Abraham, you are now justified in our eyes." Your argument is absurd.
Abraham "demonstrated his faith to man"? Why?
We only have to demonstrate our faith to God. Why must we demonstrate our faith to men?
And you're saying Abraham's obedience demonstrated his faith only to men and not to God? What nonsense. James 2:22 says Abraham's faith was "completed" by his works. Pray tell, Einstein, how could his works have "completed" his faith if those works meant nothing to God?
Oh, I get it … you think the word “flesh” in Gal 3:3 is referring to the “desires/works of the flesh” in Gal 5:16-21. Sorry, but no, it doesn’t - the word “flesh” in Gal 3:3 refers to human works - more specifically, “works of the law” of Moses in the previous verse (just as “Spirit” in v.3 refers to “faith” in v.2). In Romans 4:1-2, Paul using the same analogy: "according to the flesh" refers to human works.
So, the word "flesh" in Gal 3:3 refers to Mosaic Law and has nothing to do with "works/desires of the flesh" in Gal 5:16-21.
Before men.
Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
So, you're saying, also, that Abraham found according to the flesh that he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.
I don't think so.
"as pertaining to the flesh" in verse 1, is referring to Abraham as our father. Iow, he is not spiritually the father of the Jewish people; but he is physically the father of the Jewish people.
Spiritually, our Father is God, if we are born again.
Sound logic.
Those who would look back on the story, like James and the author of Hebrews.
Do you consider that Abraham was justified (even before God) because he offered up his son? If so, then he is justified for that reason in your eyes....and you are a man.
There is no need to demonstrate our faith to God; because He already sees our faith (see 1 Samuel 16:7).
Yes, Abraham's works completed his faith, as I said to you before: they demonstrated the faith that was in Abraham's heart all the way back in Genesis 15:6.
I would ask you, what works did the thief on the cross do that demonstrated his faith to God; that completed his faith?
Is saying, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom" a work?
It was a confession, not a work.
We are saved through a confession of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.
And since...we are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast...a confession cannot be a work; since we are saved through a confession (Romans 10:9-10) and we are not saved by works.
I think that you should stop fighting against the Lord and make a confession of Jesus as your Lord and Saviour before it's too late. Stop trusting that you are going to save yourself apart from such a confession by doing good works....such works are as filthy rags and will not be accepted before God (Isaiah 64:6).
No, i dont think that.. or teach that.
I teach what i know., and thats why i teach it.
Paul said that if you fall from Grace you are back in the "FLESH">
In other words, if you leave faith in Christ, and become a self savor like justbyfaith, who is trying to keep yourself out of hell, and gain for yourself entrance into heaven, by DOING STUFF....= works, enduring, abiding, commandments. LIFESTYLE... etc...>then your faith is Christ is gone and your faith in SELF EFFORT has become your real faith, and when you become that, you are in the "flesh". = Legalist.
If you take it farther into your self righteousness, you become a total heretic., as related to "falling from Grace".
Galatians 1:8 then becomes what you are, as you will end up teaching that its .. Faith + Works = Salvation.
Which is the same as......The Cross + Works
Both of these are the gospel of works, = Galatians 1:8
Both of these are as Jude defined them, as...>"the error of Cain"
Salvation is ALL of God and none of you.
Discipleship is ALL of you, with God's help.
Being attacked by a false teacher only serves to substantiate my credentials as a true one.
We are in fact save by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).
However, if we are filled with the Holy Spirit (whom we receive by faith, Galatians 3:14), we will bear the fruit of the Spirit.
Consider the following:
Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
The fruit of the Spirit is love; and love manifests itself in works (see also 1 John 3:17-18).
God has prepared beforehand a number of works for us to walk in (Ephesians 2:10).
If we are saved by grace (transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit) then when we come across the opportunity to do those works, we will do them.
If we are not transformed inwardly, then we are not inclined to do them and will not do them as stemming from a genuine faith in Jesus; which alone can save.
However, if we are filled with the Holy Spirit (whom we receive by faith, Galatians 3:14), we will bear the fruit of the Spirit.
Consider the following:
Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
The fruit of the Spirit is love; and love manifests itself in works (see also 1 John 3:17-18).
God has prepared beforehand a number of works for us to walk in (Ephesians 2:10).
If we are saved by grace (transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit) then when we come across the opportunity to do those works, we will do them.
If we are not transformed inwardly, then we are not inclined to do them and will not do them as stemming from a genuine faith in Jesus; which alone can save.
So your saying, when James 2:21 says Abraham was justified by his works (ie, offering to sacrifice his son Isaac), he was not justified before God. If he was not justified before God by his works, whom was he justified before?
You've misinterpreted Romans 4:2. It is referring to works ALONE - ie, works done without faith. That is make clear in the previous verse - "according to the flesh" - works done "according to the flesh". So that passage is simply saying works done without faith only impress men, not God, because without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6).
Romans 4 is not saying works done WITH FAITH don't please God. On the contrary, if you read your Bible, you will learn that God not only DEMANDS good works from believers, he REWARDS good works! So your theology is way off and flawed at a fundamental level.
Of course, good works please God.
We are saying that they do not save a man. Holy scripture is clear on that.
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