Been and Being.

[Charlie24]

Well, if you decide to try to answer my question, you are welcome to it.
Here it is for the 4th time.

"How does the Blood of Jesus that Saved you, Keep YOU Saved".

And.... there are not different types of biblical salvation, as this is only related to SIN being dealt with by Blood.
There is only a difference in the lasting effect.
See, with God, its always...>"without the shedding of Blood there is no remission"..
So, its always BLOOD that is required to deal with SIN.
The difference is....in the OT, you have a temporary sin covering, that is based on animal blood, and in the NEW TESTAMENT, you have a new covenant, that is based on "Christ having obtained eternal redemption for us", by a one time Sacrifice of His body and his BLOOD and His Life.
This is GOD's Blood, and it has ETERNAL LIFE in it, and that is why it keeps you saved, is the answer to my question, Charlie24.
So, there you go. (for future reference).

In both Testament cases, in both covenants, you have blood being offered, but in the NT, you have a eternal resolution of a person's sin.

And that is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel, and is the main point of my Thread.

And you are no more saved than they were, being as though you only have a down payment on your salvation as Paul told us.

But there's no reasoning with you!

You know my answer to that question, it keeps us saved by faith that we must maintain.

Now act like you didn't know I would say that!

 

[Behold]

And you are no more saved than they were!

Im no more saved then they were, if Jesus died in the Old Testament and they heard the Gospel, believed, and were born again.
However, None of those Jews was born again, Charlie24.
Try to remember that = and dont confuse OT jews who never made it to the "promised land" ....with born again New Testament Saints, who are already in Heaven, "seated in heavenly places, in Christ".
See, all the NEW TESTAMENT Saints, the born again, are....>"As Jesus IS, so are the born again in THIS WORLD".

And Charlie24, none of those OT Jews you are obsessing about who never made it to the "promised land", were "in Christ".

What does this mean?
It means that you need to get rid of your commentaries that have led you into a confused theology.
And if that didnt cause it, then get rid of whatever led you there.
Paster, Pope, Mary, Denomination, Friend, whatever.
Free yourself.
Thats on you.

 

[Charlie24]

Im no more saved then they were, if Jesus died in the Old Testament and they heard the Gospel, believed, and were born again.
However, None of those Jews was born again, Charlie24.
Try to remember that = and dont confuse OT jews who never made it to the "promised land" ....with born again New Testament Saints, who are already in Heaven, "seated in heavenly places, in Christ".
See, all the NEW TESTAMENT Saints, the born again, are....>"As Jesus IS, so are the born again in THIS WORLD".

And Charlie24, none of those OT Jews you are obsessing about who never made it to the "promised land", were "in Christ".

What does this mean?
It means that you need to get rid of your commentaries that have led you into a confused theology.
And if that didnt cause it, then get rid of whatever led you there.
Paster, Pope, Mary, Denomination, Friend, whatever.
Free yourself.
Thats on you.

Lev. 4:26
"And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him."

Behold, what is the difference in sin being forgiven then and now?

Were they any less forgiven than us?

 

[Behold]

Lev. 4:26
"And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him."
Behold, what is the difference in sin being forgiven then and now?

The difference is significant and eternal.. See, in the OT< under the law, which is the old covenant, "God found FAULT with it"..
God found "FAULT" with the First Covenant, Charle24.
So, what He found Fault with, you are trying to keep.. and teach.

Here is the verse... Hebrews 8:7

So, why did God """"find fault"""" with the blood of animals and the Law?, which is the OT Covenant that you are trying to overlay on top of the New Testament.

Its because neither the law nor the blood of animals can give RIGHTEOUSNESS.
See, the only reason you go to Heaven, is because GOD makes you as RIGHTEOUS as He is...
God came here to give you HIS very RIGHTEOUS, so that by this "gift of Righteousness", you are "Made RIGHTEOUS" if you are born again.

Whereas.. in the OT, the blood of a dead animal can only cover sin for a period of time, which ENDS, and then you have to do the RITUAL AGAIN.
So, God found FAULT with this ritualistic situation, as that blood ritual does not redeem sin, it can't eternally deal with it, which is the= FLAW.
= It can't make you righteous.

So, God created, the NEW Covenant, that is the New Testament, that is Christ's Blood, which is a one time blood sacrifice that resolves the "sin of the WORLD", and eternally reconciles us to Himself, once we BELIEVE and are born again.

See, in the OT< you had to go and do, something..... you had to apply blood to your door, or you had to go each year and have a sin offering slain for your sin covering.
That was you doing it.. You had it done.....That was your effort..

But in the NT, you have the mercy of God that is God's Grace, which is GOD PROVIDING for you, His BLOOD, as a GIFT.
"The Gift of Salvation".

 

[Charlie24]

The difference is significant and eternal.. See, in the OT< under the law, which is the old covenant, "God found FAULT with it"..
God found "FAULT" with the First Covenant, Charle24.
So, what He found Fault with, you are trying to keep.. and teach.

Here is the verse... Hebrews 8:7

So, why did God """"find fault"""" with the blood of animals and the Law?, which is the OT Covenant that you are trying to overlay on top of the New Testament.

Its because neither the law nor the blood of animals can give RIGHTEOUSNESS.
See, the only reason you go to Heaven, is because GOD makes you as RIGHTEOUS as He is...
God came here to give you HIS very RIGHTEOUS, so that by this "gift of Righteousness", you are "Made RIGHTEOUS" if you are born again.

Whereas.. in the OT, the blood of a dead animal can only cover sin for a period of time, which ENDS, and then you have to do the RITUAL AGAIN.
So, God found FAULT with this ritualistic situation, as that blood ritual does not redeem sin, it can't eternally deal with it, which is the= FLAW.
= It can't make you righteous.

So, God created, the NEW Covenant, that is the New Testament, that is Christ's Blood, which is a one time blood sacrifice that resolves the "sin of the WORLD", and eternally reconciles us to Himself, once we BELIEVE and are born again.

See, in the OT< you had to go and do, something..... you had to apply blood to your door, or you had to go each year and have a sin offering slain for your sin covering.
That was you doing it.. You had it done.....That was your effort..

But in the NT, you have the mercy of God that is God's Grace, which is GOD PROVIDING for you, His BLOOD, as a GIFT.
"The Gift of Salvation".


ok then Charlie24.

talk to you later...


<B><

 

[Charlie24]

The difference is significant and eternal.. See, in the OT< under the law, which is the old covenant, "God found FAULT with it"..
God found "FAULT" with the First Covenant, Charle24.
So, what He found Fault with, you are trying to keep.. and teach.

Here is the verse... Hebrews 8:7

So, why did God """"find fault"""" with the blood of animals and the Law?, which is the OT Covenant that you are trying to overlay on top of the New Testament.

Its because neither the law nor the blood of animals can give RIGHTEOUSNESS.
See, the only reason you go to Heaven, is because GOD makes you as RIGHTEOUS as He is...
God came here to give you HIS very RIGHTEOUS, so that by this "gift of Righteousness", you are "Made RIGHTEOUS" if you are born again.

Whereas.. in the OT, the blood of a dead animal can only cover sin for a period of time, which ENDS, and then you have to do the RITUAL AGAIN.
So, God found FAULT with this ritualistic situation, as that blood ritual does not redeem sin, it can't eternally deal with it, which is the= FLAW.
= It can't make you righteous.

So, God created, the NEW Covenant, that is the New Testament, that is Christ's Blood, which is a one time blood sacrifice that resolves the "sin of the WORLD", and eternally reconciles us to Himself, once we BELIEVE and are born again.

See, in the OT< you had to go and do, something..... you had to apply blood to your door, or you had to go each year and have a sin offering slain for your sin covering.
That was you doing it.. You had it done.....That was your effort..

But in the NT, you have the mercy of God that is God's Grace, which is GOD PROVIDING for you, His BLOOD, as a GIFT.
"The Gift of Salvation".


ok then Charlie24.

talk to you later...


<B><

You are one confused soul, Behold, but that's ok, we're going to get you fixed up!

Heb. 11:4
"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

Do you see now, that they were made righteous by faith in the sacrifice that represented Christ?

 

[Tong2020]

Lev. 4:26
"And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him."

Behold, what is the difference in sin being forgiven then and now?

Were they any less forgiven than us?

Let me give my answer to that.

One difference is how the sinner goes about that. Do they seek the righteousness of the law by faith or as it were by the works of the law? We are told, it was the latter. And as such, there was no forgiveness even if they have done the works required.

Another is that, according to Hebrews 10, the law can never with the same said sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. In contrast, Jesus Christ by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Tong
R3089

 

[Charlie24]

Let me give my answer to that.

One difference is how the sinner goes about that. Do they seek the righteousness of the law by faith or as it were by the works of the law? We are told, it was the latter. And as such, there was no forgiveness even if they have done the works required.

Another is that, according to Hebrews 10, the law can never with the same said sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. In contrast, Jesus Christ by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Tong
R3089

There are lots of things in your post to cover. I will start with this.

It was a foregone conclusion in the mind of God that Jesus would go to the Cross and die for our sins.

In His foreknowledge of that, faith in the animal sacrifice which represented Christ, was the same for them as faith in Him hanging on the Cross is for us. They were looking forward to the sacrifice and we are looking back.

Now that Christ has fulfilled the ultimate sacrifice, the animal sacrifice of the Law is no longer needed.

Christ has fulfilled the scriptures in every single detail concerning sacrifice.

 

[Charlie24]

There are lots of things in your post to cover. I will start with this.

It was a foregone conclusion in the mind of God that Jesus would go to the Cross and die for our sins.

In His foreknowledge of that, faith in the animal sacrifice which represented Christ, was the same for them as faith in Him hanging on the Cross is for us. They were looking forward to the sacrifice and we are looking back.

Now that Christ has fulfilled the ultimate sacrifice, the animal sacrifice of the Law is no longer needed.

Christ has fulfilled the scriptures in every single detail concerning sacrifice.

One other thing, the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin, but the blood of that animal seen by faith as Christ's blood, that is what saved them through the forgiveness of sin.

 

[APAK]

@Charlie24, I have three questions at this time to ask of you.

Those that were credited with righteousness to salvation under the Law (in the OT), like Abraham, and the Prophets and many more, even John the Baptist, were all of them saved until death, or did some fall by the wayside and become 'unsaved' later by their self-works?

Did all who were under the same Law become saved by virtue of the Priests or Prophets within their tribe or community; as a spiritual umbrella or covering? As if these men of God passed on their righteousness to others 'under' them.

Did all those under the OT and the Law in Egyptian bondage, who painted their door fronts/entrances with sacrificial animal blood, all credited with righteousness and saved until death?

Blessings,

APAK

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24, I have three questions at this time to ask of you.

Those that were credited with righteousness to salvation under the Law (in the OT), like Abraham, and the Prophets and many more, even John the Baptist, were all of them saved until death, or did some fall by the wayside and become 'unsaved' later by their self-works?

Did all who were under the same Law become saved by virtue of the Priests or Prophets within their tribe or community; as a spiritual umbrella or covering? As if these men of God passed on their righteousness to others 'under' them.

Did all those under the OT and the Law in Egyptian bondage, who painted their door fronts/entrances with sacrificial animal blood, all credited with righteousness and saved until death?

Blessings,

APAK

No sir, they were not saved until death! That is what I was showing Behold with the Hebrews in Egypt.

And neither are we, only having a down payment on our salvation until death or the resurrection.

They knew very well what the blood on the door posts represented. They were saved if not already, when they placed that blood in faith.

But yet, the majority of them died in the wilderness, never reaching the promised land. They did not enter into His rest from unbelief.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Let me give my answer to that.

One difference is how the sinner goes about that. Do they seek the righteousness of the law by faith or as it were by the works of the law? We are told, it was the latter. And as such, there was no forgiveness even if they have done the works required.

Another is that, according to Hebrews 10, the law can never with the same said sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. In contrast, Jesus Christ by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

There are lots of things in your post to cover. I will start with this.

It was a foregone conclusion in the mind of God that Jesus would go to the Cross and die for our sins.

In His foreknowledge of that, faith in the animal sacrifice which represented Christ, was the same for them as faith in Him hanging on the Cross is for us. They were looking forward to the sacrifice and we are looking back.

Now that Christ has fulfilled the ultimate sacrifice, the animal sacrifice of the Law is no longer needed.

Christ has fulfilled the scriptures in every single detail concerning sacrifice.

The Jews had no knowledge about the Messiah hanging on a cross, much less have faith looking forward to the sacrifice of the cross.

Tong
R3090

 

[APAK]

No sir, they were not saved until death! That is what I was showing Behold with the Hebrews in Egypt.

And neither are we, only having a down payment on our salvation until death or the resurrection.

They knew very well what the blood on the door posts represented. They were saved if not already, when they placed that blood in faith.

But yet, the majority of them died in the wilderness, never reaching the promised land. They did not enter into His rest from unbelief.

Thank you for your quick response. I have one major, even critical issue that I have with it.

Your understanding and meaning of a 'down payment' or credit as Paul wrote for righteousness means we are never truly saved in this life based on genuine saving faith and spiritual justification with the Spirit of Christ dwelling within our heart.

I personally would not hang/depend my life around ONE verse that you may have misunderstood all along. That of course it up to you to really examine it again, in context, and with fresh eyes as your only supporting verse I've seen thus far for claiming no one is actually saved today.

APAK

 

[Charlie24]

Brother @Tong2020 I know you are gearing up for a rebuttal, not going to do it, my friend.

it wasn't settled on the OSAS thread and it won't be settled here.

 

[marks]

I would say that blood represented the blood of Christ and by faith in it they were saved the same way we are.

If you don't understand that, it's because you don't fully understand salvation as you project!

Representation isn't the same. The blood of animals was not able to remove sin. Jesus' blood did. There is the symbolic representation, but there is also a reality of what God does and does not accept.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No sir, they were not saved until death! That is what I was showing Behold with the Hebrews in Egypt.

And neither are we, only having a down payment on our salvation until death or the resurrection.

They knew very well what the blood on the door posts represented. They were saved if not already, when they placed that blood in faith.

But yet, the majority of them died in the wilderness, never reaching the promised land. They did not enter into His rest from unbelief.

One issue here is how we are defining salvation.

They were saved from the Destroyer. And they were in fact so saved. That they died in the wilderness, that they did not reach the Promised Land, that was not the Passover. The Passover which they partook of, while representative of Jesus, even so, the promise made and kept was that the Destroyer would pass over them, and so it was.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

Thank you for your quick response. I have one major, even critical issue that I have with it.

Your understanding and meaning of a 'down payment' or credit as Paul wrote for righteousness means we are never truly saved in this life based on genuine saving faith and spiritual justification with the Spirit of Christ dwelling within our heart.

I personally would not hang/depend my life around ONE verse that you may have misunderstood all along. That of course it up to you to really examine it again, in context, and with fresh eyes as your only supporting verse I've seen thus far for claiming no one is actually saved today.

APAK

Your understanding of my understanding is somewhat flawed.

We are guaranteed salvation by faith, you are as saved now as you ever will be.

There remains the element of something very important to God.

Heb. 10:23

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

 

[APAK]

Your understanding of my understanding is somewhat flawed.

We are guaranteed salvation by faith, you are as saved now as you ever will be.

There remains the element of something very important to God.

Heb. 10:23

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Well I hope you can clear my misunderstanding then for me. What does Heb 10:23 mean to you regarding salvation?

This time the ENTIRE verse not just Heb 10:23a

Thanks..

 

[Tong2020]

One other thing, the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin, but the blood of that animal seen by faith as Christ's blood, that is what saved them through the forgiveness of sin.

As I pointed out, the Jews have no knowledge about the animal sacrifice represents the Messiah’s sacrifice on the cross. So they could not possibly have faith on that.

Now let me ask you, if by the works of the law, the sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, one is forgiven of his sin, what can you say was there need that the Lord had to suffer and die to be the sacrifice for sins?

Tong
R3091

 

[Tong2020]

No sir, they were not saved until death! That is what I was showing Behold with the Hebrews in Egypt.

And neither are we, only having a down payment on our salvation until death or the resurrection.

They knew very well what the blood on the door posts represented. They were saved if not already, when they placed that blood in faith.

But yet, the majority of them died in the wilderness, never reaching the promised land. They did not enter into His rest from unbelief.

<<<They knew very well what the blood on the door posts represented. They were saved if not already, when they placed that blood in faith.>>>

Scripture reference please.

Tong
R3092