"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[GodsGrace]

GG, you mentioned, "I trust the translators of the NT. Exactly because some words can have different meanings."

In my opinion, you might not realize that over 90 percent of these translators share your religious beliefs and perspectives.

Hey JustMe,
They say might does not make right....
but if 90% agree on anything...I'd just stop and take notice.

Indeed, words can have multiple meanings, but you should be aware that the specific words in question come from these very biased translators who intentionally selected words that fit their views, which apparently also align with yours.

Let's see. Auntie Jane gave you a like...so are you also a JW?
The reason I ask is because The New World bible IS translated by THE JW team of theologians.
Won't get into the first translation.

But
Other translations (the mainline ones) tend to hire translators from different denominations in order to have as much of an unbiased goal as is humanly possible.

Also, hermeneutics must be taken into account.
I believe the New World version is very biased.

You wouldn't agree?
Would YOU use a bible for study that was translated by David Bennet Hart or Eugene Peterson?
and yet you use a bible that is translated by only ONE GROUP of theologians.

Therefore, it’s understandable why you don’t object to these distorted and gross misrepresentations of meaning in English words, such as 'I am,' translated from Greek, which would not just likely differ, they would be quite different if translated directly from the original Hebrew.

I do believe this has been considered in the translations.

I do not believe they use distorted and gross misrepresentatins of the meaning of English words.
I believe translators are doing their best to translate a language -which is not easy to do.

What do YOU believe I AM means?

Here is a great explanation from Gemini which I agree with.
Gemini is AI generated and searches different search engines to come up with a reply.
You may not agree with the explanation which is why I asked what I AM means to YOU and what source are you using?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Exodus 3:14, God defines His name using the Hebrew phrase Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה), commonly translated as "I Am Who I Am" or "I Will Be What I Will Be". The core term, Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה), comes from the Hebrew root hayah (הָיָה), meaning to be, exist, or become. This signifies God’s eternal, self-existent, and active presence.
Key Hebrew Lexicon Terms and Meanings:

• Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה): From the verb hayah (Strong's #1961), this is the first-person singular imperfect form, which can mean "I am" or "I will be". It indicates a continuous, active existence.
• Asher (אֲשֶׁר): A relative pronoun meaning "that," "who," "which," or "what".
• Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה): Often translated "I am that I am," but also "I will be what I will be" or "I am who I am".
• Ehyeh (as a name): In the second part of the verse, God instructs Moses to say "Ehyeh" (I AM or I WILL BE) has sent him.
• Elohim (אֱלֹהִים): God, referring to the Divine Being.
• Vayomer (וַיֹּאמֶר): And He said, from the root amar (to say).

Contextual Significance:

• Active Presence: The phrase is often understood as a promise of God's presence,, e.g., "I will be with them".
• Unchanging Nature: It emphasizes God's self-sufficiency and independence from creation.
• Connection to YHWH: This phrase is closely related to the name YHWH (the LORD), which is derived from the same verb hayah.

The phrase 'I am' or its variants is a common expression without any special name significance. You have been duped into believing a lie.

What exactly is the lie?
Moses wanted to know who was speaking to him so as to refer it to the Israelites.
God said to tell them I AM sent you.

Again, what does I AM mean to you?

Believing that this expression refers not only to YHWH but also to his Son is a serious mistake and a blatant falsehood.

That’s my two cents.

Why do you think Jesus said I AM??

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings "GodsGrace",

In Exodus 3:14, God defines His name using the Hebrew phrase Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה), commonly translated as "I Am Who I Am" or "I Will Be What I Will Be".

I consider that "I Will Be What I Will Be" is the correct translation.

Why do you think Jesus said I AM??

I consider that John 8:58 should be translated "I am he", the same as John 8:24 and John 8:28.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JustMe]

Hey JustMe,
They say might does not make right....
but if 90% agree on anything...I'd just stop and take notice.

Let's see. Auntie Jane gave you a like...so are you also a JW?
The reason I ask is because The New World bible IS translated by THE JW team of theologians.
Won't get into the first translation.

But
Other translations (the mainline ones) tend to hire translators from different denominations in order to have as much of an unbiased goal as is humanly possible.

Also, hermeneutics must be taken into account.
I believe the New World version is very biased.

You wouldn't agree?
Would YOU use a bible for study that was translated by David Bennet Hart or Eugene Peterson?
and yet you use a bible that is translated by only ONE GROUP of theologians.




I do believe this has been considered in the translations.

I do not believe they use distorted and gross misrepresentatins of the meaning of English words.
I believe translators are doing their best to translate a language -which is not easy to do.

What do YOU believe I AM means?

Here is a great explanation from Gemini which I agree with.
Gemini is AI generated and searches different search engines to come up with a reply.
You may not agree with the explanation which is why I asked what I AM means to YOU and what source are you using?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Exodus 3:14, God defines His name using the Hebrew phrase Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה), commonly translated as "I Am Who I Am" or "I Will Be What I Will Be". The core term, Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה), comes from the Hebrew root hayah (הָיָה), meaning to be, exist, or become. This signifies God’s eternal, self-existent, and active presence.
Key Hebrew Lexicon Terms and Meanings:

• Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה): From the verb hayah (Strong's #1961), this is the first-person singular imperfect form, which can mean "I am" or "I will be". It indicates a continuous, active existence.
• Asher (אֲשֶׁר): A relative pronoun meaning "that," "who," "which," or "what".
• Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה): Often translated "I am that I am," but also "I will be what I will be" or "I am who I am".
• Ehyeh (as a name): In the second part of the verse, God instructs Moses to say "Ehyeh" (I AM or I WILL BE) has sent him.
• Elohim (אֱלֹהִים): God, referring to the Divine Being.
• Vayomer (וַיֹּאמֶר): And He said, from the root amar (to say).

Contextual Significance:

• Active Presence: The phrase is often understood as a promise of God's presence,, e.g., "I will be with them".
• Unchanging Nature: It emphasizes God's self-sufficiency and independence from creation.
• Connection to YHWH: This phrase is closely related to the name YHWH (the LORD), which is derived from the same verb hayah.

What exactly is the lie?
Moses wanted to know who was speaking to him so as to refer it to the Israelites.
God said to tell them I AM sent you.

Again, what does I AM mean to you?

Why do you think Jesus said I AM??

I see you are making some progress in agreeing with me, even by using a standard but somewhat inaccurate Hebrew Lexicon.

We must both acknowledge that "ego eimi" is not the same phrase as "ego eimi ho on," which appears in Exodus 3:14.

The expression ego eimi ho on ("I am the being" or "I am the one who exists") is found in the Septuagint (Greek) version of Exodus 3:14, where it serves as a predicate identifying God (YHWH) as the self-existent one.

In contrast, John 8:58 contains only ego eimi ("I am") without the predicate ho on. This grammatical distinction is important: in Exodus 3:14, ego eimi introduces a descriptive title, while in John 8:58, ego eimi stands alone and simply means "I am," a common expression I often use myself for emphasis.

To be clear, many scholars argue that the absence of "ho on" in John 8:58 indicates that Jesus is not directly quoting Exodus 3:14 but rather making a statement about his pre-existence, in line with YHWH’s plans but in a different grammatical form.

If Yeshua truly wanted to signal more than his identity as Son without any cryptic code, he would have used his Father's name directly in 8:58, saying "Before Abraham, YHWH." That did not happen, and it was really unreasonable to suggest it. The Pharisees would have thought Yeshua was demon-possessed.

As we both understand, Yeshua was primarily the Son of YHWH, the Messiah, and the Son of Man. This was the central theme in John's gospel. John never portrayed Yeshua as anything beyond these titles and his identity as a human person.

So now, all your questions have been answered within this post, except for the common bandwagoner's curiosity—just in case they aren't following the correct group—the usual who/what are you question. You still haven't learned who Yeshua was or what he is, nor have you understood who "I am" or "ego eimi" refers to.

 

[Davy]

These are two different things, two different phrases. The Old Testament reference is to a day of YHVH, whereas the New Testament use of the phrase is referring to Jesus:

Jeremiah 46:10 LSV

(10) And that day [is] to Lord YHWH of Hosts A day of vengeance, To be avenged of His adversaries, And the sword has devoured, and been satisfied, And it has been watered from their blood, For a sacrifice [is] to Lord YHWH of Hosts, In the land of the north, by the Euphrates River.​

1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV

(5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

Oh... no they are NOT two different ideas, which is what you actually wanted to say. They are about the SAME concept of the "day of the LORD", which in FINAL is pointing to the end of all Bible prophecy for this present world with Christ's future return.

You would do better to study more of The New Testament Scriptures instead of trusting the crept in doctrines of unbelieving Jews. The idea of a sacrifice by the Euphrates river is also used as a metaphor in Revelation 9 about the final one-world beast kingdom at the end, and Revelation 16 about the final battle of Armageddon on the day of Christ's future 2nd coming with His army from Heaven against Satan's armies out of the northern quarters that come upon Israel on the last day of this world. And Libya is in the list of nations that are joined with Gog-Magog that come upon Israel on the last day per Ezekiel 38.

Thus God uses Old Testament historical events also as patterns for end time events, even as Apostle Paul showed in 1 Corinthians 10:11 with the idea of "ensamples".

The 1 Thessalonians 5:2 verse is a continuation of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 concerning Jesus returning for his bride - the resurrection and rapture of Christians, and his later return to establish God's Kingdom on earth.

Only one more coming by Lord Jesus Christ, and that is on the last day of this present world. You are pushing men's false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture which instead wrongly teaches 2 more comings by Lord Jesus.

Paul's teaching of those "day of the Lord" events in 1 Thessalonians 5 come DIRECTLY from the Old Testament prophets. That's where Paul got the "Peace and safety" idea, and "sudden destruction" ideas from.

They're referring to different events.

Two different times, in the sense that the actual "day of the Lord" is about God's FINAL end of things of this present world. The Jeremiah 46 events He is simply using as an 'example' of the FINAL future "day of the Lord" events for the end of this world. Remember what Apostle Paul said about Old Testament "ensamples". Solomon said something like that too, didn't he? Yeah! No new thing under the sun. What has been, shall be again!

Obviously believing in Jesus is the most important thing, and that is what Jesus mentioned.

Yep! Christ's coming to die on the cross for us is the main purpose for this present 2nd world earth age. It is why God brought this 2nd world earth age instead of just destroying Satan and those who followed him in that old world when he first rebelled and fell.

The original version of verses 19-20 just said, "Go, and (teach) them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever” (Dr. George Howard's English translation of Shem Tob's Matthew Hebrew Gospel). The baptism phrase was a later addition/corruption to add support for the man-made Trinity doctrine. So we can and should omit verse 19, apart from the word "Go".


We should not ignore any verses of Scripture (but we need to allow for corruptions of Scripture by translators and copiers).

Thing is, not ALL... copies of the Greek texts are missing those verses.

So NO... I REJECT your false teach against the Triune Godhead of Three Persons, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

We do NOT have to rely on omission of that Matthew 28:19-20 Scripture to try and prove the 3 Person Divine Structure for GOD that is written in many other Bible Scriptures.

That is something which CULTS who call themselves Christian do, trying to dump the fact that Jesus is GOD The Son, and part of the Three Person Godhead.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see you are making some progress in agreeing with me, even by using a standard but somewhat inaccurate Hebrew Lexicon.

We must both acknowledge that "ego eimi" is not the same phrase as "ego eimi ho on," which appears in Exodus 3:14.

The expression ego eimi ho on ("I am the being" or "I am the one who exists") is found in the Septuagint (Greek) version of Exodus 3:14, where it serves as a predicate identifying God (YHWH) as the self-existent one.

In contrast, John 8:58 contains only ego eimi ("I am") without the predicate ho on. This grammatical distinction is important: in Exodus 3:14, ego eimi introduces a descriptive title, while in John 8:58, ego eimi stands alone and simply means "I am," a common expression I often use myself for emphasis.

To be clear, many scholars argue that the absence of "ho on" in John 8:58 indicates that Jesus is not directly quoting Exodus 3:14 but rather making a statement about his pre-existence, in line with YHWH’s plans but in a different grammatical form.

I agree that Jesus is making a statement about His preexistence.
Not only a PRE-EXISTENCE but an ETERNAL existence.

If Yeshua truly wanted to signal more than his identity as Son without any cryptic code, he would have used his Father's name directly in 8:58, saying "Before Abraham, YHWH." That did not happen, and it was really unreasonable to suggest it. The Pharisees would have thought Yeshua was demon-possessed.

Well, the Pharisees did believe that Jesus stated that He was God.

As we both understand, Yeshua was primarily the Son of YHWH, the Messiah, and the Son of Man. This was the central theme in John's gospel. John never portrayed Yeshua as anything beyond these titles and his identity as a human person.

Jesus' divinity is not limited to John 8:58.
Yeshua IS Yahweh.

The Alpha and the Omega.
I really dislike debating the divinity of Jesus.

Does it state CHRISTIAN under your avatar?

And you DO NOT believe Jesus is God?
Then you should change your avatar.

The divinity of Jesus is not up for debate.
Christians believe Jesus is God.
This is how it's been for 2 thousand years.
Early Christians died for believing that Jesus was God and not the Emporer.

I don't see the need to debate this on a Christian Forum.

So now, all your questions have been answered within this post, except for the common bandwagoner's curiosity—just in case they aren't following the correct group—the usual who/what are you question. You still haven't learned who Yeshua was or what he is, nor have you understood who "I am" or "ego eimi" refers to.

Matters not.
I believe Jesus is God.
THAT is the correct group.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see you are making some progress in agreeing with me, even by using a standard but somewhat inaccurate Hebrew Lexicon.

BTW,,,I don't use lexicons.
I believe I stated that I posted GEMINI.

I learn from church theologians...
more than one denomination.

We must both acknowledge that "ego eimi" is not the same phrase as "ego eimi ho on," which appears in Exodus 3:14.

The expression ego eimi ho on ("I am the being" or "I am the one who exists") is found in the Septuagint (Greek) version of Exodus 3:14, where it serves as a predicate identifying God (YHWH) as the self-existent one.

In contrast, John 8:58 contains only ego eimi ("I am") without the predicate ho on. This grammatical distinction is important: in Exodus 3:14, ego eimi introduces a descriptive title, while in John 8:58, ego eimi stands alone and simply means "I am," a common expression I often use myself for emphasis.

To be clear, many scholars argue that the absence of "ho on" in John 8:58 indicates that Jesus is not directly quoting Exodus 3:14 but rather making a statement about his pre-existence, in line with YHWH’s plans but in a different grammatical form.

If Yeshua truly wanted to signal more than his identity as Son without any cryptic code, he would have used his Father's name directly in 8:58, saying "Before Abraham, YHWH." That did not happen, and it was really unreasonable to suggest it. The Pharisees would have thought Yeshua was demon-possessed.

As we both understand, Yeshua was primarily the Son of YHWH, the Messiah, and the Son of Man. This was the central theme in John's gospel. John never portrayed Yeshua as anything beyond these titles and his identity as a human person.

So now, all your questions have been answered within this post, except for the common bandwagoner's curiosity—just in case they aren't following the correct group—the usual who/what are you question. You still haven't learned who Yeshua was or what he is, nor have you understood who "I am" or "ego eimi" refers to.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings "GodsGrace",

I consider that "I Will Be What I Will Be" is the correct translation.

Yes...some understand it to be I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.

It is God being what He is.
God is what He is.
He is.

Some terms are difficult to translate because they're not in our daily parlance.

What is important, IMO, is that God referred to Himself as this I AM...
and Jesus referred to HIMSELF as this I AM.

If one believe Jesus is God this is easily accepted.
If one does NOT believe Jesus is God he will look for any excuse/explanation to deny it.

IF you deny it..see my post 145.

I consider that John 8:58 should be translated "I am he", the same as John 8:24 and John 8:28.

Kind regards
Trevor

What does John 8:24 mean?

John 8:24
24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless * you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

 

[Aunty Jane]

They say might does not make right....
but if 90% agree on anything...I'd just stop and take notice.

You know that the majority of Jews who rejected Jesus were dead wrong, don’t you?

If you had lived in that Jewish system that had been off the rails uncorrected for many centuries (like Christendom has) and had convinced everyone that they already belonged to the true religion, and that those who, like Jesus preached against the status quo....and so must have been a fraud who should be put to death...whose side would you have taken if 90% of your fellow worshippers said he was a blasphemer?

It was foretold that only a “remnant” of natural Israel would be saved. So what do you understand a “remnant” to be? And doesn’t this explain why Jesus said that “few” are actually on the right path.

How many were in the wrong in Noah’s day?
When will people get the message? Satan has the majority.

God is about quality, not quantity.

Let's see. Auntie Jane gave you a like...so are you also a JW?
The reason I ask is because The New World bible IS translated by THE JW team of theologians.
Won't get into the first translation.

Not everyone who gets a like from me is a JW....only those who speak the truth and are not afraid of a challenge. I respect those who know their Bible, unlike those who rely on others to know it for them....

But
Other translations (the mainline ones) tend to hire translators from different denominations in order to have as much of an unbiased goal as is humanly possible.

Also, hermeneutics must be taken into account.
I believe the New World version is very biased.

Who told you that the NWT was biased when the other translations clearly are. All we did was correct the errors, and if you see where the ones who support their own biased translations jump up and down, its very easy to point out their own errors.
Scholars are a dime a dozen and they regularly argue with one another....pick your scholars.....usually the ones with whom you agree doctrinally. Their bias is clearly visible in their choice of words.
You can believe them if you wish.

I do not believe they use distorted and gross misrepresentatins of the meaning of English words.
I believe translators are doing their best to translate a language -which is not easy to do.

Translations are not inspired...only the original texts were inspired of God.....translators did what they always do...they translated according to beliefs already held by “the church”....and since an apostasy was foretold, and it began in the early centuries, how sure are you that what got handed down to you, is accurate?
Who are you depending on for accuracy? Surely not the RCC.....?

Here is a great explanation from Gemini which I agree with.

If you agree with Gemini, then you agree with the NWT....

“Contextual Significance:

• Active Presence: The phrase is often understood as a promise of God's presence,, e.g., "I will be with them".

God told Moses to tell his people, not only his name but what it would mean for them in their liberation....he would “BE” whatever he needed to be in order for his will to be accomplished through them. They would know him in a very different way then.

• Unchanging Nature: It emphasizes God's self-sufficiency and independence from creation.

God does not need anyone or anything....but there are things that he cannot give himself.....LOVE and LOYALTY. These things he gives to his children, in the hope that they will return them, willingly, out of an appreciative heart.

With the gift of free will, there was always a danger of it being abused, but when it surfaced first in satan and spread to humankind, God “became” what he needed to be in a continuous way because his will is what will take place, regardless of who wants to defect from him for their own selfish reasons.

• Connection to YHWH: This phrase is closely related to the name YHWH (the LORD), which is derived from the same verb

Yahweh/Jehovah...however you pronounce it in your own language, God knows his name in all languages....
Which is why God’s name is so important...
At Pentecost 33 C.E., Peter gave fine counsel in view of that approaching tragedy. Quoting Joel 2:32, he said: “Everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved.” This was a quotation of Scripture that included the divine name. Each individual Jew had to make a personal decision to call upon God’s name.....he has no other name, nor will he ever need one. (Psalm 83:18)

What exactly is the lie?
Moses wanted to know who was speaking to him so as to refer it to the Israelites.
God said to tell them I AM sent you.

The lie is what the entirety of Christendom believes....it’s a false “Christianity” created by the devil....Jesus foretold it and the apostles said that it was “already at work” in their day. So what grew out of that apostasy became the “Christian” Faith that the majority subscribe to in one form or another to this day....but they ignore most of what Jesus taught. Would you like a list?

Why do you think Jesus said I AM??

Jesus was answering a question about his age, not his deity....he was saying that he existed before Abraham....which is fully in keeping with what he said....he never said “I Am”...because grammatically it has to be a past tense answer to a past tense question.....he answered that before Abraham was born, “I Was” or “I Have Been”. It has no connection to Exodus 3:15 at all.

 

[Aunty Jane]

BTW,,,I don't use lexicons.
I believe I stated that I posted GEMINI.

I learn from church theologians...
more than one denomination.

You contradict yourself....lexicons are consulted and written by those who translated the Bible.

So, you believe what AI says, which is in keeping with the truth that it’s unbiased programming revealed...yet you cling to Christendom’s errors perpetuated by their biased translations.
You are apparently confused....

None of the Scripture you quote is in context or has the correct understanding of the original languages. They are coloured by Christendom’s doctrines.

 

[JustMe]

I agree that Jesus is making a statement about His preexistence.
Not only a PRE-EXISTENCE but an ETERNAL existence.


Well, the Pharisees did believe that Jesus stated that He was God.


Jesus' divinity is not limited to John 8:58.
Yeshua IS Yahweh.

The Alpha and the Omega.
I really dislike debating the divinity of Jesus.

Does it state CHRISTIAN under your avatar?

And you DO NOT believe Jesus is God?
Then you should change your avatar.

The divinity of Jesus is not up for debate.
Christians believe Jesus is God.
This is how it's been for 2 thousand years.
Early Christians died for believing that Jesus was God and not the Emporer.

I don't see the need to debate this on a Christian Forum.

Matters not.
I believe Jesus is God.
THAT is the correct group.

Well this post and the subsequent post speak volumes on your reliance on 'church' theologians. I would get new advisers if I were you.

You have made statements without any qualification or support. And reasonably, I would count them all as hear-say only. They cannot be reliable statements.

So what do you think of Exodus 3:13 and 15, since you have deflected, ignored and apparently discarded the actual words in Exodus 3:14? And made your own version of verse 14 to force it to apply and comply with your version of John 8:58?

The actual name of YHWH is written in these 3 verses when combined, and it sounds much different that the preparatory expression, a no-name expression of 'I am." Verse 14 was revealing his divine characteristics, and not his name. The 3 verses must be read as one verse of 3 sub-verses.

(Exo 3:13) Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you;’ and they ask me, ‘What is His name?’ What should I tell them?
(Exo 3:14) God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM; and He said, You shall tell the children of Israel this: ‘I AM (I am being/ who exists and shall be/exist) has sent me to you’.
(Exo 3:15) God said moreover to Moses, You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.

If you actually read carefully, without hesitation for true meaning, YHWH is saying when combing all three verses in a more comprehensible language:

The God of your fathers has sent me to you. I who exist and shall exist (the eternal being) Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.

1. I who exists and shall exist (the eternal being) is the prime characteristic or nature of YHWH, his of timelessness, being the source of immortality.
2. The God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob is YHWH's name

SO, if you looked at this verse as well...

(Exo 3:6) Moreover he said, I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God.

There's the name of YHWH again. Uncanny isn't it what one finds when one searches more through scripture

So show your work in proving Yeshua is the one God, YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

 

[Davy]

Well this post and the subsequent post speak volumes on your reliance on 'church' theologians. I would get new advisers if I were you.

You have made statements without any qualification or support. And reasonably, I would count them all as hear-say only. They cannot be reliable statements.

So what do you think of Exodus 3:13 and 15, since you have deflected, ignored and apparently discarded the actual words in Exodus 3:14? And made your own version of verse 14 to force it to apply and comply with your version of John 8:58?

The actual name of YHWH is written in these 3 verses when combined, and it sounds much different that the preparatory expression, a no-name expression of 'I am." Verse 14 was revealing his divine characteristics, and not his name. The 3 verses must be read as one verse of 3 sub-verses.

(Exo 3:13) Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you;’ and they ask me, ‘What is His name?’ What should I tell them?
(Exo 3:14) God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM; and He said, You shall tell the children of Israel this: ‘I AM (I am being/ who exists and shall be/exist) has sent me to you’.
(Exo 3:15) God said moreover to Moses, You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.

If you actually read carefully, without hesitation for true meaning, YHWH is saying when combing all three verses in a more comprehensible language:

The God of your fathers has sent me to you. I who exist and shall exist (the eternal being) Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.

1. I who exists and shall exist (the eternal being) is the prime characteristic or nature of YHWH, his of timelessness, being the source of immortality.
2. The God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob is YHWH's name

SO, if you looked at this verse as well...

(Exo 3:6) Moreover he said, I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God.

There's the name of YHWH again. Uncanny isn't it what one finds when one searches more through scripture

So show your work in proving Yeshua is the one God, YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Well, you shouldn't brag that you know GOD's Name, because per the above it shows you actually do NOT know.

GOD gave His Name in four Acrostics in the Book of Esther, the last one being The "I AM."

 

[TazzJazz]

Well, the Pharisees did believe that Jesus stated that He was God.

No. they did not.
(Jesus' statement @ John 8:58, the Pharisees understood to be the answer to their question "You are not yet 50 years old, and yet you have seen Abraham?" Jesus was answering 'Yes'. That's why they picked up stones to stone Him ... Jesus was saying He was over 1800 years old. To them, a ridiculous claim!) They did not think He was claiming to be God.

How do we know that? Because at His Sanhedrin trial, no one accused Him of saying he was God, not even the false witnesses!
All four of the Gospels record the event, but no such accusation was made.

So to claim the Pharisees accused Jesus of saying he was God, is not considering all of the pertinent Biblical context.

Have a good day.

 

[JustMe]

Well, you shouldn't brag that you know GOD's Name, because per the above it shows you actually do NOT know.

GOD gave His Name in four Acrostics in the Book of Esther, the last one being The "I AM."

Are you chasing a ghost without even bothering to clarify what you mean or understand the topic? Acting as if you are above it all because you assume your conclusion is automatically true?

It seems like you're grasping at straws to support the unusual idea that the Son of God speaks and identifies himself as YHWH, especially through a book (Esther) that was never meant to be part of the Scriptural Canon since it lacks any connection to the New Testament.

So, you accept the notion of hidden codes in certain names in Esther, where either forward or reverse translations supposedly reveal YHWH, a descriptive name of his character rather than the official name given to his people.

This is a pointless pursuit, and I think you're somewhat misguided.
The idea of the no-name expression "I am" connected to the Son of God is dead, and should never have arisen in the first place. There is no connection!

 

[JustMe]

Yes...some understand it to be I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.

It is God being what He is.
God is what He is.
He is.

Some terms are difficult to translate because they're not in our daily parlance.

What is important, IMO, is that God referred to Himself as this I AM...
and Jesus referred to HIMSELF as this I AM.

If one believe Jesus is God this is easily accepted.
If one does NOT believe Jesus is God he will look for any excuse/explanation to deny it.

IF you deny it..see my post 145.

What does John 8:24 mean?

John 8:24
24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless * you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

I'll tell you what John 8:24 and its context and meaning, again...as to others at least

----------------------------------------------

John 8:24 and 28 – Epistrophe I am - that you would die in your sins​

Two of the so-called seven absolute “I am” statements of Christ.

(Joh 8:24) I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."
(Joh 8:25) They asked, "Then who are you?" Jesus answered, "I am what I have told you from the beginning.
(Joh 8:26) I have much more I could say to judge you. But I tell people only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he speaks the truth."
(Joh 8:27) They did not understand who he was talking about. He was telling them about the Father.
(Joh 8:28) So he said to them, "You will lift up the Son of Man. Then you will know that I AM. You will know that whatever I do is not by my own authority. You will know that I say only what the Father has taught me.
(Joh 8:29) The one who sent me is with me. I always do what pleases him. So he has not left me alone."
(Joh 8:30) While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. (ERV)

In verse 24 Yeshua insists the people know who he is, else without this knowledge, they will not have the opportunity to believe in him, and consequently their sins will not be forgiven upon their death.

So they ask him who are you, in verse 25. And Yeshua replies, I already told you from/at the beginning, of our discussions or when he first met them.

And in the beginning of his discussions is verse 12, he said he was the light of the world (and only while he was on the earth).

Then this is linked to Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6; to the Father making Yeshua his salvation, his Messiah as the light of the world.

John 8:24 =>John 8:25 => John 8:12=> Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6

I am what/who I spoke about from the beginning, as the light of the world. The Father planned and spoke of him as the Messiah in Isaiah.

Yeshua, the Messiah of God, where his father’s spirit and word possessed his own spirit, emphasizing that Yeshua spoke from and for God, as his agent.

Furthermore, ‘the light of the world’ is not limited to Yeshua’s physical presence on Earth. While Jesus states, "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world" (John 9:5), his presence continues through the Spirit of his Father, who dwells in believers today.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to the crowd, saying: I am the light of the world. He that follows me shall not walk in the darkness but shall have the light of life.
(Isa 42:6) I, Yahweh, have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand and will keep you, and make you a covenant for the people, as a light for the nations;
(Isa 49:6) yes, He says, It is too light a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the nations, that you may be My salvation to the end of the earth.

This light is identified as "the light of truth," "the light of Christ," and the "Spirit of Christ," which quickens understanding and enables individuals to discern good from evil.

The light is spiritual, illuminating the human soul and guiding individuals toward righteousness and truth by his Father’s presence in his Son.

Then Yeshua, in verses 26 - 29, speaks about his God, his Father. Yeshua is again hinting about who he is, as his position with and the work of his Father, who is God.

The light that came into the world is described as the source of life and truth, and its presence exposes evil deeds, as those who do wicked things hate the light and avoid it.

In verse 28 Yeshua broadcasts to the people he is the Son of Man, a human being, a human person.

In verses 28 and 29, by strong inference, Yeshua is also saying he is the anointed one, the Messiah of God. Yeshua, the man had to be anointed or become the Messiah of God, filled with the power of his Father in order to succeed to the Cross. Yeshua had no power or authority in himself or independently, he depended solely on his Father, who is the one God. Yeshua performed his work as the special human being separated by God for this special mission. He was born to become the agent of God, to speak the word of God to execute the human sacrifice portion of God's plan for salvific restoration.

And then in verse 30, many knew Yeshua was a man, a human person born of God and also the Messiah of God. And many consequently then believed on him and did not die in their sins, as his Father God told his Son. They never thought he was YHWH for one moment in the process of believing in him, as only the Son of God being the Messiah!

 

[Davy]

No. they did not.
(Jesus' statement @ John 8:58, the Pharisees understood to be the answer to their question "You are not yet 50 years old, and yet you have seen Abraham?" Jesus was answering 'Yes'. That's why they picked up stones to stone Him ... Jesus was saying He was over 1800 years old. To them, a ridiculous claim!) They did not think He was claiming to be God.

How do we know that? Because at His Sanhedrin trial, no one accused Him of saying he was God, not even the false witnesses!
All four of the Gospels record the event, but no such accusation was made.

So to claim the Pharisees accused Jesus of saying he was God, is not considering all of the pertinent Biblical context.

Have a good day.

You are wrong!

Jesus WAS INDEED claiming to be The I AM.

Jesus IS... Immanuel God with us. That means GOD come in the flesh.

Just because you follow a CULT like JW or SDA which pushes the lie that Jesus is not part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, that means you are following 'men', and not the Word of God as written.

 

[Davy]

Furthermore brethren in Christ, those CULTS which only claim... to be Christians, got their disbelief about Jesus of Nazareth as part of The Three Person Godhead from the "synagogue of Satan".

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, Lord Jesus mentioned those FALSE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan", which only LIE and SAY THEY ARE JEWS, BUT ARE NOT. That means those represent the main workers of Satan here on earth, Satan's own elect. It also means they ARE NOT TRUE BLOODLINE BORN Jews of the seed of Israel. And that then points to them as those CREPT IN UNAWARES throughout Judah's Old Testament history, of PAGAN FOREIGNERS WHO WERE IDOL WORSHIPERS.

Thus the "synagogue of Satan" represents a group of FAKE JEWS crept in among even 'unbelieving' Jews of the seed of Israel, and mislead true bloodline Jews. They were among the Pharisees and even made up the scribes of Israel which were of the Kenite peoples, a people of the land of Canaan (see Genesis 15 and 1 Chronicles 2:55). And they don't like being exposed. Yet that is Biblical.

That is why... those FALSE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan" literally HATE the idea of Jesus Christ being GOD, i.e., part of The Three Person Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

 

[Davy]

Are you chasing a ghost without even bothering to clarify what you mean or understand the topic? Acting as if you are above it all because you assume your conclusion is automatically true?

You are the one who spoke out as in Authority, when you actually do not know that YHWH is not GOD's Name written in the Hebrew manuscripts. I gave you a strong clue where to find His actual Name in the Book of Esther in Acrostic form, which includes His Name 'I AM'. So it's up to you to now do your own homework on that, instead of trying to embarrass me into revealing it to you here. I won't tell you, no matter how much you try to mock me.

Your explanations about Jesus, Yeshua, STILL... do not give credit to the actual written Bible Scripture about Jesus' place in the triune GODHEAD. Jesus is... GOD The Son, and apparently something your men's 'Oneness' false tradition refuses to recognize.

This following Bible Scripture should... settle the matter, but NO... the FALSE JEWS you follow has convinced you that Jesus is NOT GOD, not part of The GODHEAD. Yet the following Scripture reveals that Jesus is... GOD come in the flesh...

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
KJV


That is no doubt why when you mentioned the prophecy in Isaiah about Jesus Christ, you FAILED to address that actual prophecy, not only in Isaiah 7:14 with the meaning of His Name "Immanuel", but also the later Isaiah 9:6-8 prophecy which is about Lord Jesus Christ...

Isa 9:6-8
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
KJV


That "child" is the same child spoken of back in Isaiah 7, the prophecy of the virgin birth. It is about Lord Jesus Christ. And those TITLES belong to Lord Jesus Christ! Notice it includes, "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" in that child's Titles!

Then in Isaiah 9:7 above, it points also to The One Who is to inherit His flesh father's throne, the throne of David! That is ONLY about Lord Jesus Christ! And that is yet another proof that the above Isaiah 9:6-7 Scripture is about JESUS THE CHRIST, or Yeshua-Messiah as you would say.

Then what was that LIGHT idea you kept mentioning in your post, being about Yeshua? There it is with that Isaiah 9:8 verse, which also is about Lord Jesus Christ. It's about The Gospel of Jesus Christ having been given through Abraham, then to his son Isaac, then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where The Gospel has remained in their care ever since their being scattered to the West and forming the Western Christian Nations, fulfilling the "multitude of nations" prophecy given about Ephraim in Genesis 48.

So as long you keep listening to those you are listening to, you will stay dumbed down on much of this.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Has anyone pointed out God spoke through the angel from the burning bush? Acts7:35

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey JustMe,
They say might does not make right....
but if 90% agree on anything...I'd just stop and take notice.

Let's see. Auntie Jane gave you a like...so are you also a JW?
The reason I ask is because The New World bible IS translated by THE JW team of theologians.
Won't get into the first translation.

But
Other translations (the mainline ones) tend to hire translators from different denominations in order to have as much of an unbiased goal as is humanly possible.

Also, hermeneutics must be taken into account.
I believe the New World version is very biased.

You wouldn't agree?
Would YOU use a bible for study that was translated by David Bennet Hart or Eugene Peterson?
and yet you use a bible that is translated by only ONE GROUP of theologians.




I do believe this has been considered in the translations.

I do not believe they use distorted and gross misrepresentatins of the meaning of English words.
I believe translators are doing their best to translate a language -which is not easy to do.

What do YOU believe I AM means?

Here is a great explanation from Gemini which I agree with.
Gemini is AI generated and searches different search engines to come up with a reply.
You may not agree with the explanation which is why I asked what I AM means to YOU and what source are you using?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Exodus 3:14, God defines His name using the Hebrew phrase Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה), commonly translated as "I Am Who I Am" or "I Will Be What I Will Be". The core term, Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה), comes from the Hebrew root hayah (הָיָה), meaning to be, exist, or become. This signifies God’s eternal, self-existent, and active presence.
Key Hebrew Lexicon Terms and Meanings:

• Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה): From the verb hayah (Strong's #1961), this is the first-person singular imperfect form, which can mean "I am" or "I will be". It indicates a continuous, active existence.
• Asher (אֲשֶׁר): A relative pronoun meaning "that," "who," "which," or "what".
• Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה): Often translated "I am that I am," but also "I will be what I will be" or "I am who I am".
• Ehyeh (as a name): In the second part of the verse, God instructs Moses to say "Ehyeh" (I AM or I WILL BE) has sent him.
• Elohim (אֱלֹהִים): God, referring to the Divine Being.
• Vayomer (וַיֹּאמֶר): And He said, from the root amar (to say).

Contextual Significance:

• Active Presence: The phrase is often understood as a promise of God's presence,, e.g., "I will be with them".
• Unchanging Nature: It emphasizes God's self-sufficiency and independence from creation.
• Connection to YHWH: This phrase is closely related to the name YHWH (the LORD), which is derived from the same verb hayah.

What exactly is the lie?
Moses wanted to know who was speaking to him so as to refer it to the Israelites.
God said to tell them I AM sent you.

Again, what does I AM mean to you?

Why do you think Jesus said I AM??

The same reason HE said I am the first and the last . And the Word was God . its real simple
if we just read the bible . Just not certain bibles that changed things .

 

[JustMe]

You are the one who spoke out as in Authority, when you actually do not know that YHWH is not GOD's Name written in the Hebrew manuscripts. I gave you a strong clue where to find His actual Name in the Book of Esther in Acrostic form, which includes His Name 'I AM'. So it's up to you to now do your own homework on that, instead of trying to embarrass me into revealing it to you here. I won't tell you, no matter how much you try to mock me.

Your explanations about Jesus, Yeshua, STILL... do not give credit to the actual written Bible Scripture about Jesus' place in the triune GODHEAD. Jesus is... GOD The Son, and apparently something your men's 'Oneness' false tradition refuses to recognize.

This following Bible Scripture should... settle the matter, but NO... the FALSE JEWS you follow has convinced you that Jesus is NOT GOD, not part of The GODHEAD. Yet the following Scripture reveals that Jesus is... GOD come in the flesh...

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
KJV


That is no doubt why when you mentioned the prophecy in Isaiah about Jesus Christ, you FAILED to address that actual prophecy, not only in Isaiah 7:14 with the meaning of His Name "Immanuel", but also the later Isaiah 9:6-8 prophecy which is about Lord Jesus Christ...

Isa 9:6-8
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
KJV


That "child" is the same child spoken of back in Isaiah 7, the prophecy of the virgin birth. It is about Lord Jesus Christ. And those TITLES belong to Lord Jesus Christ! Notice it includes, "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" in that child's Titles!

Then in Isaiah 9:7 above, it points also to The One Who is to inherit His flesh father's throne, the throne of David! That is ONLY about Lord Jesus Christ! And that is yet another proof that the above Isaiah 9:6-7 Scripture is about JESUS THE CHRIST, or Yeshua-Messiah as you would say.

Then what was that LIGHT idea you kept mentioning in your post, being about Yeshua? There it is with that Isaiah 9:8 verse, which also is about Lord Jesus Christ. It's about The Gospel of Jesus Christ having been given through Abraham, then to his son Isaac, then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where The Gospel has remained in their care ever since their being scattered to the West and forming the Western Christian Nations, fulfilling the "multitude of nations" prophecy given about Ephraim in Genesis 48.

So as long you keep listening to those you are listening to, you will stay dumbed down on much of this.

I don't think you need to be mocked, as it seems from your posts that you're already complaining without any help from me. I am very knowledgeable about this topic, and in my opinion, you have nothing to contribute or add to the discussion.

Then you switch between different unrelated scriptures that you also don't understand.

Regarding Post #113, again, which I initially shared and you did not respond to, it concerns the meaning of Emmanuel (and it doesn't necessarily need to be capitalized).
--------------------------------------------------

The topic is the term “Immanuel,” which you obviously know nothing about. It is fitting at this time of year that some think of the Son of God and His Father, regardless of whether He was truly born this part of the year or in the springtime. One cannot simply assume that if the name Emmanuel is linked to Yeshua, it means He is God. In Hebrew, it means in English, 'God (be)(is) with us.'

Emmanuel or Immanuel appears in four places in scripture: Isaiah 7:14, 8:8, 10, and Matthew 1:23.

(Isa 7:14) Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

(Isa 8:8) It will sweep onward into Judah. It will overflow and pass through; it will reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of its wings will fill the breadth of your land, Immanuel.

(Isa 8:9) Make an uproar, you peoples, and be broken in pieces! Listen, all you from far countries: dress for battle, and be shattered! Dress for battle, and be shattered!

(Isa 8:10) Take counsel together, and it will be brought to nothing; speak the word, and it will not stand: for God is with us.

(Mat 1:23) The virgin shall be with child and shall give birth to a son; and they shall call his name Immanuel, which means God with us.

Historically, Immanuel is intended primarily for a broad audience, not necessarily for a specific individual. The term Immanuel or Emmanuel attached to the Son of God was meant for the benefit of other peoples and does not identify who Yeshua is.

In the name Yeshua, the "Ye" comes from the Hebrew "Yeho-," a shortened form of the divine name Yahweh or YHWH. This element appears at the start of other biblical names like Jehoshaphat and Jehoahaz. The "Ye" in Yeshua represents the first part of the name, signifying "Yah" or "Yahweh," or “YHWH.”

The second part, "shua," derived from the Hebrew root שׁוּעָא (shua), comes from the Hebrew verb "yasha," and means "wealth," "abundance," or "opulence." It is also linked to the idea of "to cry out" or "to implore help," reflecting a spiritual meaning of calling upon divine aid. In the name Yeshua, the Hebrew form of Jesus, "Shua" contributes to the overall meaning of "salvation" or "deliverance," "to save, deliver, or rescue." Therefore, Yeshua means "Yahweh saves" or "the Lord is salvation," referring to the divine act of being miraculously rescued from distress and destruction.

It is clear that Immanuel and the name Yeshua complement each other: “Yeshua our Immanuel,” if you will.

In the Old Testament, the term Immanuel was a cry to God, often during war, to intervene on behalf of His people and destroy their enemies. In Isaiah’s time, Judah was about to be attacked by the Northern tribe of Israel and Assyria. The hope was for God to be with, stay, protect, and fight for Judah, His people, to bring victory over their enemies.

In Isaiah, Immanuel was used as a prayer, a cry on bended knees, in worship by Judah, asking God to be with them as their conqueror, to defend their tribe and land against the Northern Tribe of Israel and the Assyrian armies, to defeat them. This prophecy was fulfilled a few years later when the Assyrian armies and the tribe of Israel were completely destroyed.

In fact, the common greeting then and now, such as “God be with you” or “God bless you,” derives from the expression Immanuel. It is a sincere wish for hope and assurance that God would be at their side, intervening and protecting them from enemies, evil, and even mental and physical ailments.

In Matthew, the same Immanuel expression is used to indicate that God was coming again to help the people, not just Israel, especially the remnant of Israel, but all peoples and remnants of the nations, through His Son, Yeshua. God was present within Yeshua; His Spirit fully covered and dwelt within Him from the start of His mission to the Cross. If one does not believe this crucial point—that the Son was God’s Messiah and that God’s Spirit dwelt within Him—then one must believe the Son Himself is God, which is not the case.

Mary’s son’s name is more precisely derived from Hebrew, Yeshua or a close variant, not Jesus. The word Jesus was never meant to be in scripture; it is a Latinized Greek word without scriptural meaning. Joshua is a valid name, meaning YHWH delivers or saves (to freedom), which He did as His people entered the Promised Land.

Yeshua + Emmanuel means God shall save His people from death through His humble, lowly human servant. God and His Son walked together as one spirit with one purpose to the Cross, and they did exactly that for all of us. They loved us all the way to the Cross and beyond.

What a perfect team effort!

Mission accomplished, Amen.

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