"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[JustMe]

The word Became FLESH . let us not kid ourselves and use partail truths to promote a lie .
For no man can deny the fact
IT IS written And the word was GOD and the word Became flesh .
Any more than can they deny TO GOD ALONE belonged the title I AM the FIRST and the last .
Ya heeding men my friend . You reasoning wit h the carnal wisdom of men .
But you are not alone . The fleecers of this people , I mean the leaders of this people
Are led of the carnal mind and have long desired titles and to be seen and have the praise of men .
And now at the end and in the end hour
the unifying force of all darkness has come to unify all who loved the darkness
to merge as one under what they will all as one see and believe is LOVE an d OF GOD .
And buddists will hold hands with muslims and muslims with jews and with all of the decieved within christendom .
AND all will chant LET US FIND common ground
and all will chant let us do the will of GOD for world peace n sa fety , for we serve the same GOD
and we love and have his love within us . BUT it was naught but the s tro ng delusion
that led them an d will have led them N OT to the very peace and utopia and safety
T EHY SO THOUGHT IT WOULD . BUT TO THE DAY of THE DAY OF MUCH WAILING and unto their own sudden destruction
BY THE VERY GOD and CHRIST they beleived they served . My advice remains as it has
since the day i first appeared on even websites long ago . GET I NTHAT BIBLE
and SEE what god or GOD , what christ or CHRIST on e has been serving all along . cause many serve
the angel of darkn ess who has brought them to what it c alls light , what it calls love . And it be none other than
the dragon . T ime is short and many will wail on the DAY OF all MIGHTY GOD and of the LAM B .
MY WOR DS SHALL BE HIS JUDGE on the LAST DAY . so i suggest WE READ HIS WORDS and start believing HIM
and not rather m en in wool who use HIS NAME and yet lead this people to the second d eath .

Let me ask you just one question, and it should be simple for one who knows scripture as you profess you do.

When did the word of the Father take on human form? If you recognize the scriptural source of my inquiry, then your understanding should also grasp the answer I am presenting to you.

I doubt you can locate the response, much less construct one. You will most likely resort to another series of disjointed, long and vague remarks that are irrelevant to my question.

 

[saved by grace 101]

It’s amazing how many times something can be explained to you – and you STILL don’t get it.
Oh, well . . .

Yes, you said it was the law of Moses mentioned in those verses, don't you remember?

 

[amigo de christo]

Let me ask you just one question, and it should be simple for one who knows scripture as you profess you do.

When did the word of the Father take on human form? If you recognize the scriptural source of my inquiry, then your understanding should also grasp the answer I am presenting to you.

I doubt you can locate the response, much less construct one. You will most likely resort to another series of disjointed, long and vague remarks that are irrelevant to my question.

just dont go buying into that odd teaching that somehow we too are the word become flesh . cause that is blasphemous .
Jesus was not just a man that all of a sudden one day recieved the word and it became flesh . sorry but that dont float .
Of course i aint saying you beleive that either , well at least i sure hope ya dont .

 

[JustMe]

just dont go buying into that odd teaching that somehow we too are the word become flesh . cause that is blasphemous .
Jesus was not just a man that all of a sudden one day recieved the word and it became flesh . sorry but that dont float .
Of course i aint saying you beleive that either , well at least i sure hope ya dont .

You were better off by just being silent. So what did you do, once again. You filled your response with words that do not address the subject at all. Are you scared to answer this simple question? If not, then answer it. It is scripture, truly!

So I will ask you one more time, when did the word of the Father take on human form?

Now, if that is still too hard to write about, then please just pick one of these options below, so I will gauge where you are on this subject. Look I'm not playing games here. I just want to know where you are on this scripture.
Hint: it's in John's gospel report.

I know you can pick one letter.

a. Before his birth
b. At his birth
c. At his baptism
d. At his resurrection
e. At his ascension
f. Other.

 

[saved by grace 101]

You were better off by just being silent. So what did you do, once again. You filled your response with words that do not address the subject at all. Are you scared to answer this simple question? If not, then answer it. It is scripture, truly!

So I will ask you one more time, when did the word of the Father take on human form?

Now, if that is still too hard to write about, then please just pick one of these options below, so I will gauge where you are on this subject. Look I'm not playing games here. I just want to know where you are on this scripture.
Hint: it's in John's gospel report.

I know you can pick one letter.

a. Before his birth
b. At his birth
c. At his baptism
d. At his resurrection
e. At his ascension
f. Other.

I would say C, but I accept I would be in the minority

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed, all that is made--even the women--that part in the image of God taken out, is made by and for Christ.

But the difference between the man and the woman, is that part of the image that God has created is the mother of sin--and--and as that image unfolds all of God's creations produce "in kind", meaning, in the case of the women from whom all men except Adam are born, are born in the "kind" of sin. Thus, that sinful nature.

Even Jesus was born of that sinful nature--born to fulfill "And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— *Genesis 3:22). Which Jesus did, breaking the bonds of sin by living without sin, yet fulfilling also the requirement of "you shall surely die" for all who would come to join Him as one new man.

Two comments:

1. The sin nature is passed on by the male.
Through Adam sin entered the world.

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—


2. Jesus did not have a sinful nature.
No Christian denomination that I know of teaches this.
The reason Jesus did not have a sinful nature is because His father was God....not a man.

Jesus had a Divine nature and a human nature...
but a sinful nature and a divine nature cannot co-exist.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps alwise, but is all wisdom itself God? Wisdom applies to human beings. Human beings aren't allowed to create Satan or order him to give Job boils, or even Valentinian confusion!

I'm not sure what point is being made here.

THIS is what I stated:
GOD IS WISDOME.
God does not HAVE wisdom.

I did state that this is divine simplicty and I don't believe you're replying to that.
God does not HAVE an attribute...
HE IS that attribute.

God does not HAVE justice.
God IS justice.

Human beings HAVE wisdom...
We cannot say that they ARE wisdom.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say C, but I accept I would be in the minority

If you know you're in the minority....
why not choose to believe what Christianity teaches?

What you believe is called adoptionism.
It's heretical.
Why not just believe what is taught???

 

[saved by grace 101]

If you know you're in the minority....
why not choose to believe what Christianity teaches?

What you believe is called adoptionism.
It's heretical.
Why not just believe what is taught???

Is the minority always wrong?
The religious leaders of Jesus day were the majority, they were wrong
Don't get too high brow with me with words such as adoptionism, Im a simple chap

 

[saved by grace 101]

why not choose to believe what Christianity teaches?

I take it you are referring to the internet. Been to various denominational Trinitarian churches for over forty years, only once heard a minister state from the pulpit Christ is God himself and everyone should believe it and he was an assistant pastor fresh out of bible college!
Never heard a minister state from the pulpit if you believe Jesus is the Son of God but not God Himself you will be cast into hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

This is where I find it difficult or rather impossible to accept your view here. Are you suggesting that the Eternal Word, God the Son suppressed His Deity and all that entailed in His activity for 9 months in the womb, saying to Himself, "Waiting, Waiting", and then as a babe and infant pretended that He could not have a Divine Conversation with Mary, but had to pretend to be a young human?

Trevor,
What I write is not my view.
I post scripture....I post what the NT teaches.

yes sir...God the Son's knowledge was limited while He was on earth.

Jesus had a human nature and experienced everything we do and this is clearly stated in the NT.
Yes. Jesus had to GROW in knowledge, just like every other human child does.
But He also had a divine nature and this did affect His human nature.

Philippians 2:6-7
Amplified Bible
who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];
but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].

I have already quoted the following two verses, and there is no hint that his wisdom was directly derived from His Divinity, but rather from his education and growth in understanding:
Luke 2:40,52 (KJV): 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Did I say Jesus' wisdom was derived solely from His divinity?
Jesus GREW in wisdom and stature....

Luke 2:52
52And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

As a man, Jesus did draw on His diving wisdom when teaching.

John 12:49
49 For I did not speak from Myself, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.

And there are other OT passages that speak about the source of his wisdom and also the education of Jesus:
Isaiah 11:1–5 (KJV): 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Isaiah 50:4–9 (KJV): 4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. 5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. 8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me. 9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

I agree of course.

When it came to the time of His Ministry, John states that they beheld His Glory, and he explains this as that Jesus "was full of grace and truth". This is consistent with all of the above, in that he developed wisdom and understanding, he developed the fullness of the Divine Character.

Yes sir.
Jesus certainly did have Divine character.

The Word LOGOS has a wide range of meaning, but in part it speaks of the Character of God and also His Plan and Purpose which became focused and fulfilled in the birth, ministry, trials, suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus. John 1:14 speaks initially of how this LOGOS became revealed in the ministry of Jesus and his character.

No sir.
The LOGOS,,,which is also the WORD OF GOD....
became flesh and dwelt among us.

NOTHING in John 1:14 about the logos being revealed in the ministry of Jesus.

Jesus IS the Logos of God.


John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and [a]dwelt among us.


Here is the best meaning of LOGOS I've found:

The Logos of God, from the Greek word for "word," is a profound theological concept primarily identifying Jesus Christ as the divine, eternal Word, Reason, and creative principle of God, as revealed in the Gospel of John, where "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14). It signifies God's self-expression, divine mind, and the active force behind creation, bridging the gap between the transcendent God and humanity through Jesus, who embodies God's will, wisdom, and presence.

• Greek Philosophy: In Greek thought, Logos meant universal reason, divine principle, or mind governing the cosmos, a concept John adapted to introduce Jesus.
• Jewish Thought: In the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament), logos translated the Hebrew davar (word/deed) for God's powerful utterances and actions, connecting it to divine revelation and creation.
• Christian Theology (John's Gospel):
  
  • Eternal & Divine: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).
  • Creator: "All things were made through him" (John 1:3).
  • Incarnation: The Logos became human in Jesus, revealing God's glory and making God known (John 1:14).
• Broader Christian Usage: It also refers to God's spoken word, the message of the Gospel, and the active power of God's revelation in the world.

In essence, the Logos of God is God's very being expressed, made personal, and revealed fully in the person of Jesus Christ, bringing order and life.


source: Gemini

 

[GodsGrace]

Is the minority always wrong?
The religious leaders of Jesus day were the majority, they were wrong
Don't get too high brow with me with words such as adoptionism, Im a simple chap

YES.
In Christian theology the minority is wrong.

Why?

Because Christianity has remained THE SAME for over 2 thousand years.

Only recently has a small MINORITY decided that they'd like to change Christian theology.

Christianity cannot change and will remain the same as it was at the time of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

I take it you are referring to the internet.

I didn't learn from the internet and I don't intend to begin now...
atlhough I do use it at times to post orthodox theology.

Been to various denominational Trinitarian churches for over forty years, only once heard a minister state from the pulpit Christ is God himself and everyone should believe it and he was an assistant pastor fresh out of bible college!
Never heard a minister state from the pulpit if you believe Jesus is the Son of God but not God Himself you will be cast into hell.

A Pastor or Priest will NOT state at every sermon that Jesus is God.

This is because Christians KNOW that Jesus is God and do not need to be reminded of this on a regular basis.
It's taken FOR GRANTED that Jesus is God.

 

[saved by grace 101]

A Pastor or Priest will NOT state at every sermon that Jesus is God.

This is because Christians KNOW that Jesus is God and do not need to be reminded of this on a regular basis.
It's taken FOR GRANTED that Jesus is God.

That is an incorrect statement for a huge amount of people who go to Trinitarian churches
My best guess, with over forty years experience, is roughly half the people who go to trinitarian churches solely believe Jesus to be the son of God. And I can say with confidence, well over 90% of Trinitarian churchgoers would happily accept anyone as a christian who solely terms Christ the son of God.
It is only on the internet it is so different

 

[saved by grace 101]

Because Christianity has remained THE SAME for over 2 thousand years.

You may believe that if you wish

 

[ScottA]

Two comments:

1. The sin nature is passed on by the male.
Through Adam sin entered the world.

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Yes, I simply broke it down "as it is written"..."male and female", for Eve was a part taken out of Adam. The distinction of which God has seen fit to reveal.

2. Jesus did not have a sinful nature.
No Christian denomination that I know of teaches this.
The reason Jesus did not have a sinful nature is because His father was God....not a man.

Jesus had a Divine nature and a human nature...
but a sinful nature and a divine nature cannot co-exist.

It sounds like you are saying Jesus was not fully a man or a "Son of man."

As a man, He too was "tempted", and qualified therefore to fulfill the sin debt upon all humanity, as a man. Indeed, as a Son of God Jesus could have brought salvation--but if not born a man (the Son of man) the cross would simply be theatrics, even unnecessary.

I do understand your sentiments--how can one think otherwise--for we revere Him. But what you say about "a sinful nature and a divine nature cannot co-exist"--does have one exception, even stated as a "mystery": "Christ in you the hope of glory." Which, with further revelation, is "the first resurrection."--the "firstfruits" with Christ...or as Paul referred to us as "we who are alive and remain"--alive in God, but remaining in the world for the remainder of our natural life.

 

[ScottA]

A well known evangelist once said:
''Faith begins where logic ends''

It might also be said:

The Word begins where the scriptures end--for though the words may come in literary form, they are Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Christianity cannot change and will remain the same as it was at the time of Jesus.

Biblically speaking--Christianity has changed--and was foretold to change early on...by "false teachers" teaching "destructive heresies" causing "strong delusion."

And what of Paul's words regarding "correction" among the church--what correction would be necessary if Christianity never became apostate?

 

[saved by grace 101]

The greatest power seen and most rapid growth of the church came before the emergence of the scholar and theologian who soon appeared after the Apostles passing. They endlessly searched the scriptures for some hidden nugget of truth they could turn into a doctrine and set it in stone.
It took them 300 years after Christ died at Calvary before they came up with the Trinitarian doctrine the churches are signed up to today.

 

[JustMe]

I would say C, but I accept I would be in the minority

And you would be 100% correct, and also in the minority.

Why is it so easy for you and I to know this I wonder, and some others. Although the vast majority would bark at it, and even curse at the notion that the Father's word was in his son despite the many scripture that says it's true. I guess they want to keep their antiquated belief system alive at all costs especially when their touchstone verses of John 1:1 and 14, with their wrong interpretation, would got down in flames.