Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[justbyfaith]

So are you inferring that those who walk in the Spirit don't obey His commandments?

The reality of this has to do with what you are seeking to be justified by. It is important that we obey God's commandments once we understand that we are justified through the blood of Jesus Christ alone; and that law-keeping doesn't save us in any regard.

If our obedience results from the fact that we love Jesus because He has forgiven us of so much, I think that we will be alright: as long as we don't ever begin to trust in our obedience as being salvational to us. It is not our obedience that saves us; it is our faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross that accomplishes this.

If we ever begin to trust in what we do/our performance to save us, then we have ceased to trust in the finished work of the Cross.

When someone is truly born again, there is a basic imprint in our psyche that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb and nothing else.

Therefore because this trust in the finished work of the Cross is imprinted on our minds and hearts, we cannot lose our salvation because that imprint will never be erased from the mind of the genuine believer in Christ.

re #39.

 

[Dave L]

I agree with

But I do have a question. Why exclude the Sabbath? Is it not a commandment? If at some time it was included, as the 'exclusion' comment suggests, and it was included on the basis of the authority of the Law-giver, then I would assume that you have equal authority for its excision right? A voice from heaven? An appearance on Sinai with lightening and thunder? A prophet declaring it's demise? Even some pronouncement in scripture? Like, "thus saith the Lord, the Sabbath is no longer valid" ?

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant (details available). The New Covenant totally replaced them (Details available). The New Covenant imports some of the commandments and they serve for commentary and instruction. But the New Covenant did not import the Sabbath. A day of rest in 7 is good if not observed legalistically.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree with

But I do have a question. Why exclude the Sabbath? Is it not a commandment? If at some time it was included, as the 'exclusion' comment suggests, and it was included on the basis of the authority of the Law-giver, then I would assume that you have equal authority for its excision right? A voice from heaven? An appearance on Sinai with lightening and thunder? A prophet declaring it's demise? Even some pronouncement in scripture? Like, "thus saith the Lord, the Sabbath is no longer valid" ?

Jesus said basically, the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath.

This does not annihilate the sabbath as a practice if you want to keep it for the benefits it provides, but I believe that Jesus said this in order to take away the bondage of the law that strict observance of the sabbath was imposing on the people. In other words, keeping the sabbath becomes a privilege rather than an obligation, under the New Covenant.

 

[Mayflower]

You know the GPS gets me thinking about my church. Lol. See I would get lost all of the time when I started driving again after 8 years. I had a dumb phone then, and had my church family worried, so they bought me a GPS. And Ive never got lost since. This is what Jesus did. He paid the price for us, so that we can find our way. Obedience is just following the directions. Now I watch my daughter and she knows where her momma is. She may not stay out of trouble much, but she always comes to me. Love is written on our hearts... The commandments are learned. It is why we are told to write them on our hearts and meditate on them. When we do that, who wants to be lost? We will follow our GPS.

 

[Frank Lee]

So are you inferring that those who walk in the Spirit don't obey His commandments?

why would you say that? I'm not "inferring" anything at all. This was written to those that began to practice Jesus plus. Denominations are built on Jesus plus their private interpretations.

As the retrospective writer of Hebrews stated, with obvious remorse.


Hebrews 12:1 KJVS
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us , and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[mjrhealth]

We always try to make it about ourselves, what we have done, what we do, it is not about us, The believer is found righteous not because of anything they have done or could ever do, but because He who was without sin remained obedient to the end, and because God keeps His promises.

God bless

 

[brakelite]

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant (details available). The New Covenant totally replaced them (Details available). The New Covenant imports some of the commandments and they serve for commentary and instruction. But the New Covenant did not import the Sabbath. A day of rest in 7 is good if not observed legalistically.

I am sure you could provide me with a wonderful treatise on the covenants. You will no doubt provide intricate and intimate details of the difference between old and new, describing all the nuances that exist affecting obedience, grace, salvation, and works. But there is one thing, despite all the wisdom you may bring with your erudite prose, that will be missing.
That one thing no scholar, no biblical theologian, no professor of linguistics or doctor of divinity could provide. An authoritative conclusive statement stating clearly and succinctly that the keeping holy of the Sabbath is no longer a commandment. No-one since the apostles put pen to paper has ever produced one. Nor I am sure, will you. No disrespect toward you, I am sure you know your Bible very well and could offer an excellent written submission on why the Sabbath ought no longer be observed... But it will lack one integral ingredient that if produced, will convince me. Divine authority.

 

[Episkopos]

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant (details available). The New Covenant totally replaced them (Details available). The New Covenant imports some of the commandments and they serve for commentary and instruction. But the New Covenant did not import the Sabbath. A day of rest in 7 is good if not observed legalistically.

Don't mix up the law of God with the law of Moses.

The 10 commandments are still valid...but we are to fulfill them in their depth...not just outwardly.

Jesus said that we must love as He loves. If we do that then the 10 commandments will be fulfilled.

 

[brakelite]

Sacrifices were offered, the Lamb of God died, because mankind failed to obey God. Are we then to believe that God has lowered his standard to meet the fallen nature of man ? That regardless of man's character and regardless of man's attitude to God's laws: regardless of Christ's sacrifice that the justice of the law may be met, we can now claim obedience is no longer or duty but just an added bonus if we try hard?
It is fascinating that the moment anyone suggests that Christians ought to obey God commandments, so many fail to agree. Rather, they choose to raise concerns over legalism and works be salvation. What is that to you? If summertime else is attempting to gain salvation through obedience, how does their poor understanding of grace lessen your duty towards God?

 

[Zachary]

We always try to make it about ourselves, what we have done, what we do, it is not about us, The believer is found righteous not because of anything they have done or could ever do, but because He who was without sin remained obedient to the end, and because God keeps His promises.

You are refusing to believe some Scriptures which are very clear!

 

[Dave L]

Don't mix up the law of God with the law of Moses.

The 10 commandments are still valid...but we are to fulfill them in their depth...not just outwardly.

Jesus said that we must love as He loves. If we do that then the 10 commandments will be fulfilled.

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant, no longer in use. But the New Covenant imported some of them for our instruction and commentary purposes.

 

[Dave L]

I am sure you could provide me with a wonderful treatise on the covenants. You will no doubt provide intricate and intimate details of the difference between old and new, describing all the nuances that exist affecting obedience, grace, salvation, and works. But there is one thing, despite all the wisdom you may bring with your erudite prose, that will be missing.
That one thing no scholar, no biblical theologian, no professor of linguistics or doctor of divinity could provide. An authoritative conclusive statement stating clearly and succinctly that the keeping holy of the Sabbath is no longer a commandment. No-one since the apostles put pen to paper has ever produced one. Nor I am sure, will you. No disrespect toward you, I am sure you know your Bible very well and could offer an excellent written submission on why the Sabbath ought no longer be observed... But it will lack one integral ingredient that if produced, will convince me. Divine authority.

I'm not sure about what you are saying, but nowhere in the NT are we instructed to keep any sabbath.

 

[Episkopos]

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant, no longer in use. But the New Covenant imported some of them for our instruction and commentary purposes.

So you are saying that Jesus came to abolish the law of God?

 

[Dave L]

So you are saying that Jesus came to abolish the law of God?

He came to fulfill it. The Ten Commandments (temporal) were an offshoot of the Two Great Commandments (eternal)

 

[farouk]

I agree. Obeying His commandments are also for our own ultimate good

The obedience of faith / obedience to the faith - at the beginning and end of the Epistle to the Romans - is supposed to be the believer's natural element.

It's all of God and not by human merit.

 

[farouk]

So you are saying that Jesus came to abolish the law of God?

The law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

(Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19).

 

[Episkopos]

The law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

(Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19).

The Covenant was changed not the law. God doesn't change. But people were too weak to obey holy laws.

 

[farouk]

The Covenant was changed not the law. God doesn't change. But people were too weak to obey holy laws.

"..the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7.12)

What we now have is better than the law.

"For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Hebrews 7.19)

 

[Dave L]

The Covenant was changed not the law. God doesn't change. But people were too weak to obey holy laws.

The covenant was the Law. The Ark of the Covenant held the two tablets of the law. etc.

 

[Zachary]

The Covenant was changed not the law.
God doesn't change.
But people were too weak to obey holy laws.

The NT says the Law was given to PROVE that people could NOT obey it
(in their own strength, etc.) ... NOT even His own special "chosen ones", the Israelites.

But, BACs have NO excuse for not satisfying God, because He has given them:
1) the precious Holy Spirit
2) a new nature
3) the word of God (the Bible)
... far beyond what all of the Old Covenant people had!

BACs have been totally FREED from sin!
And Jesus said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments."
.