@Heart2Soul Anne Steele (1717-1778) comes to mind:
"O may these heav'nly pages be
My ever-dear delight;
And still new beauties may I see,
And still increasing light."
Bible alone?
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"O may these heav'nly pages be
My ever-dear delight;
And still new beauties may I see,
And still increasing light."
That's good....is that all there is to it?
More than this Jesus was letting people know that at that time he did not have a place to rest. As he told us in Matt 11:28 he had a place for us to rest, but until the Body of Christ was ready, Jesus was a Head without a body. Many people today who claim to be followers of the Lord provide no place where Jesus can rest, because of the filth within them. There is no good reason for it... but that is the way that men very often travel even after they have met the Master. As David wrote the resting place of our Lord is to be Zion, but while Zion remains a dry, parched, barren place where is His resting place in men?
"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14
!wyc Tsiyown (tsee-yone'); Proper Name Location, Strong #: 6726
Zion = "parched place"
@Heart2Soul Here it is in full:
Father of mercies, in thy Word
what endless glory shines!
Forever be thy Name adored
for these celestial lines.
Here may the wretched sons of want
exhaustless riches find;
riches above what earth can grant,
and lasting as the mind.
Here springs of consolation rise
to cheer the fainting mind,
and thirsty souls receive supplies,
and sweet refreshment find.
Here the Redeemer's welcome voice
spreads heavenly peace around
and life and everlasting joys
attend the blissful sound.
O, may these heavenly pages be
my ever dear delight,
and still new beauties may I see,
and still increasing light.
Divine Instructor, gracious Lord,
be thou forever near;
teach me to love thy sacred Word,
and view my Savior there.
Hymn Lyrics - Father of mercies, in thy word
Co-redeemer co-mediatrix are not defined dogmas, Mary cooperated in our salvation as Eva did in the fall with Adam, Mary is the mother of God Lk 1:43 perpetual Virgin yes Lk 1:34
Queen of heaven yes cos in the line of David the mother of the king is queen and Christ is King of heaven,
Jn 20:21-22 the apostles are God breathed and sent by Christ
Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yeah they are! I was Catholic, even wnet to seminary and had a Catholic Action bible with the Nihil Obstat and Impramatur and in it it definetly declared Mary as co-redeemer and co-mediatrix!
But using your line then we are all co redeemers because all believers cooperate in peoples salvation by sharing the gospel.
Perpetual virgin? NO- she KNEW Josdeph after Jesus was born and as a good Jewish girl she had at least four other sons and at least 2 daughters! Sorry1
BreadOfLife
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The difference is that THEY made a decision for the CHURCH - not just for themselves.
You ALSO glossed over the part of the letter were they said that some had gone out without AUTHRIZATION from THEM.
THAT'S Authority . . .
And I NEVER said it was on his Authority as an Apostle. He rebuked Peter as a brother in Christ.
As I already told you - St. Catherine of Siena rebuked Pope Gregory XI - and she definitely wasn't an Apostle.
Peter was misbehavin' - and Paul set him straight.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Negative. All they did is write a letter to the Gentiles churches, offering them encouragement and suggesting a few ways to get along with Jewish believers.
Right. NOT as an authority.
The Lord is my Shepherd,
I shall not lack,
He maketh me to lie down beside still waters,
HE restores my soul,
He leadeth me on the path of righteousness for His name sake,
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no evil,
For He is with Me
His rod and His staff He comforth me
He prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies,
my cup runneth over
surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever
Christ alone,
whoda thunked it
Teh bible can do none of that
I shall not lack,
He maketh me to lie down beside still waters,
HE restores my soul,
He leadeth me on the path of righteousness for His name sake,
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no evil,
For He is with Me
His rod and His staff He comforth me
He prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies,
my cup runneth over
surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever
Christ alone,
whoda thunked it
Teh bible can do none of that
mid you are a baptized member of Christ the shepherd! Jn 3:5 by water & the spirit
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
I do think it's good to remember that the so called council of Jerusalem was in the Apostolic period, which was to end, and thus there was no, extra-Biblical, human structure being established as some kind of supposed, permanent, indispensable structure pattern for the defining and overruling of Scripture. There was a problem, and so the problem was handled at the time.
@Heart2Soul Anne Steele was the Godly author; she really wrote well.
BreadOfLife
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WRONG.
What planet are you from? This was not a letter of "encouragement" or some sort of pep rally in Jerusalem.
It was a definitive and decisive action taken by the Church hierarchy against the Judaizers. YOU can try to pervert it all yu want - but the text is right there in Acts 15, as I already showed you. Read the AUTHORITATIVE language for yourself:
Acts 14:24-28
WE have heard that some went out from us WITHOUT OUR AUTHORIZATION and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So WE ALL AGREED to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore WE are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to THE HOLY SPIRIT AND TO US not to burden you with anything beyond the following REQUIREMENTS;
Only a person who is living is abject denial doesn't see this as Authoritative . . .
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind all that transpired before James dictated his letter. Peter received a direct revelation from God, that holiness is not based on ethnicity. He tells Peter that he reserves the right to declare who is holy and who is not holy. On this basis then, Peter went to the house of Cornelius to preach the Good News message and during his preaching, Cornelius and his family received the Holy Spirit.
What do we have so far? 1) Direct revelation from God himself. 2) confirmation by the Holy Spirit. What is missing? Peter. He was simply a messenger and a witness to the move of God. Peter didn't baptize Cornelius and his family under his own authority.
Next, Jesus choses Paul to be his ambassador to the Gentiles. Jesus knocked Paul off his horse; he blinded Paul; and he sent him to the house of a disciple called Ananias. Paul had three days to think about what happened. Once Paul resolved to follow the Lord, Jesus removed the scales and Ananias baptized Paul. He spent 14 years in Bible study and direct revelation from Jesus himself. And has he says, he suffered much hardship as preached the gospel to the rest of the nations.
When Paul preached the gospel, he defended his message using scripture (as you are doing) and the Holy Spirit ratified Paul's teaching through signs and wonders.
Where are we so far?
1) Peter received direct revelation from God.
2) The Holy Spirit ratified Peter's message.
3) Paul received direct revelation from Jesus.
4) The Holy Spirit ratified Paul's message.
Men coming from James, not given explicit instructions from James, began teaching the Gentiles that they needed to live Jewishly, and convert to Judaism. So James and some of the other apostles, including Paul, convened a meeting to discuss the situation. First Peter testified about his experience with Cornelius. Paul testified about his experience with the Gentiles. After the council heard witness testimony concerning what God himself was doing among the Gentiles (It wasn't Peter's idea and it wasn't Paul's idea.) The first thing James does is cite the Old Testament.
5) James cites the Old Testament, confirming that Gentile salvation was consistent with prior revelation.
The entire group, being of one mind, decide to write a letter to the Gentile churches, and send four men to give verbal testimony to the facts at hand. Why were the men in agreement? They heard the testimony of Peter and Paul, they searched the scriptures and they all became convinced in their own minds. These men weren't voting or deciding for themselves. The only question for them was this. "What is God doing for the Gentiles?" These men were not acting on their own authority. They were acting in accordance with divine revelation.
None of these men argued from their authority as Apostles. None of them said to each other or the Gentiles, "We are apostles and therefore you must do as we say." No. These men were representing ideas and powers beyond their control.
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BreadOfLife
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You just don't get it.
NOBODY is saying that the Apostles made a decision at the Council of Jerusalem by themselves or by their OWN Authority.
Remember what they said in the letter:
Acts 15:28
It seemed good to THE HOLY SPIRIT AND TO US not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements;
They had the Authority of Jesus Christ, who is GOD. Don't forget what Jesus promised them at the Last Supper:
John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
How much MORE proof do you need before you understand that they had the Authority of CHRIST Himself??
And since YOU brought up the incident about Paul being knocked to the ground and blinded - what did Jesus say to him??
Acts 9:4-5
And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
WHO was Paul persecuting?? The CHURCH.
Jesus EQUATES His very self with His Church. THAT is Authority.
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CadyandZoe
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Just because I disagree, doesn't mean that I don't understand what you are saying.
NOBODY is saying that the Apostles made a decision at the Council of Jerusalem by themselves or by their OWN Authority.[/quote]The talk is about sola scriptura. And so far you have done nothing if you haven't made the case for sola scriptura. All of your arguments are based on your interpretation of scripture. This is prima facia evidence that you believe in scripture alone. If someone believes in scripture alone that individual argues from the scriptures just as you are doing.
You want to prove to me, using scripture alone, that the "so-called" Council of Jerusalem was an official body and that these men made a collective decision as an organized institution. Presumably you will then argue that the Roman Catholic church is THAT institution. So far you have not made the case that these men were acting on behalf of an institution.
What does that even mean? You seem a bit confused here. The question of authority answers to this question, "Has God granted another man, other than Jesus, the authority to render independent decisions and judgments? The answer is NO. We grant that the apostles were speaking for Christ, but only what Christ and God already revealed. I proved to you, from Acts 15, that these men were relaying divine revelation.
BreadOfLife
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The talk is about sola scriptura. And so far you have done nothing if you haven't made the case for sola scriptura. All of your arguments are based on your interpretation of scripture. This is prima facia evidence that you believe in scripture alone. If someone believes in scripture alone that individual argues from the scriptures just as you are doing.
You want to prove to me, using scripture alone, that the "so-called" Council of Jerusalem was an official body and that these men made a collective decision as an organized institution. Presumably you will then argue that the Roman Catholic church is THAT institution. So far you have not made the case that these men were acting on behalf of an institution.
What does that even mean? You seem a bit confused here. The question of authority answers to this question, "Has God granted another man, other than Jesus, the authority to render independent decisions and judgments? The answer is NO. We grant that the apostles were speaking for Christ, but only what Christ and God already revealed. I proved to you, from Acts 15, that these men were relaying divine revelation. [/QUOTE]
Either you're being purposely obtuse - or you really don't understand.
I guess I'll have to go step-by-step once more . . .
In Matt. 16:18-19, Jesus singles out Peter and gives him the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. This is a transfer of Authority that mirrors that of God and Eliakim:
Isaiah 22:20–22 - In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt. 16:18-19 - And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Just 2 chapters later, in Matt. 18 - Jesus gives the rest of His Apostles similar authority.
In Luke 10:16, when Jesus sends out the 72 of His inner circle, He gives them the Authority to speak on behalf of Him and the One who sent Him. He states that whoever listens to or rejects THEM listens to or rejects HIM and the ONE who sent them.
On the night of Jesus's resurrection, He appears to His Apostles. THIS time, He breathes on them and gives them the Holy Spirit, telling them that whoever's sins THEY forgive or retain on earth will be forgiven and retained in Heaven.
There are only TWO places in ALL of Scripture where Jesus "breathes" on man:
1. When God breathed LIFE into Adam.
2. When Christ gave His Apostles the power to FORGIVE or RETAIN sins.
NONE of this Authority is their own. as YOU keep falsely claiming that I am asserting.
It is ALL done in Christ - by HIS Authority.
Exactly WHAT part of the following statement strikes you as "NON-Authoritative"??
John 16:15
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
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BreadOfLife
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NONSENSE.
OT Scripture was appealed to when making the decision at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 because Scripture IS Authoritative.
Nobody is arguing against this.
Sola Scriptura, on the other hand posits that Scripture is our SOLE Authority - which Scripture itself rejects (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23). Peter's entire opening statement was based on the GOSPEL - which had NOT yet been written.
James, then quoted the OT in his speech.
In the end - it was the Apostles, guided by the Holy Spirit who made the decision.
Scripture indeed played a part - but NOT Scripture "alone" . . .
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
As I said, the statement is authoritative. God the father declares to the Son, who declares to the Apostles who declares to us. Simple. God is the only one who has authority to tell me what to believe and he has granted that authority to his son. By a trick of your magic wand, hocus pocus, you claim that a catholic pope has also been granted authority ex cathedra.
So then, When we say, "scripture alone" we deny other writings and documents. Not only do we reject the writings of Ellen G. White and the Book of Mormon, we reject the Catholic Magisterium. We classify any group who affirms extrabiblical writings as a cult, a group that has deviated from Christ and the truth. In Essence, The Roman Catholic Church is a cult, having deviated from Christ and the truth. Protestants have heard the call, "come out of her my people."
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