Bible alone!

[Ferris Bueller]

Hey Ferris,

Here is what The Church has declared in the Second Vatican Council: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation”

The Catechism says: 1281 [A]ll those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized.

Soooo would you care to refine your statement?

Don't tell me, tell @theefaith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

we must be taught by Christ

Christ teaches all true believers. Through the Holy Spirit.

"...the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you." John 16:14

 

[amigo de christo]

Don't tell me, tell @theefaith.

There is but one way to attain salvation . Believe in JESUS CHRIST . Confessing Him by mouth and believing from the heart
that God has rose Him from the dead . Let the glorious Lord be praised .

 

[theefaith]

You say that a person is not in Christ unless they are in the Catholic church. That means you're saying everyone outside of your church is unsaved.


Everyone who believes in God is placed in Jesus. Water does not do that. Obedience does not do that. Faith, all by itself, apart from works does that. Romans 4:6.

no faith alone avails nothing
1 cor 13:2
Ez 36:25-27
Mk 16:16
Acts 8:36-38

 

[theefaith]

"And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers..." Ephesians 4:11

We protesters just don't think that the Catholic priesthood is included in that hierarchy. They have not been called to these offices. They are false prophets and teachers.

hen 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[theefaith]

Hen should be heb

 

[theefaith]

Nobody has to interfere between God and his people to tell them what the true doctrine of the apostles is. We have that knowledge in the pages of our Bibles. Each believe has within him the anointing to discern which so-called teachers are deviating and corrupting or adding to the doctrine of the apostles we have in our Bibles and which ones are not.

where does Jesus say go into the whole world and hand out bibles let people decide for themselves! Matt 16 the people are wrong, Peter apostle received the truth!

teach all nations Matt 28:19

we must be taught Lk 1:4

most people before the 20th century were illiterate
Bibles were rare and expensive

 

[theefaith]

I had lengthy discussions with a devout Catholic a few years ago and he said it was necessary to be re-justified. How can two Catholics disagree about this since you boast of being unified in doctrine?

Probably a modernist
You can only be baptized justification once
Then as a member of Christ and his church we are sanctified grow in grace

 

[theefaith]

Protestants do this.

you cannot do this

you have no priesthood
No sacrifice
No holy communion
No life grace or salvation

 

[theefaith]

Protestants understand the necessity to obey those who genuinely have and hold one of the spiritual callings and offices in Ephesians 4:11. We just don't think the Catholic priesthood constitutes those who have those callings and offices. We know from 1 John 2 that every individual believer has an anointing via the Holy Spirit to discern who is a spiritual leader in the church and who is not. Nobody decides that for us individually. The true sheep know and follow the Shepherd's voice. Ultimately, they can not be deceived. So don't worry about anarchy in the ranks. That happens among unbelievers and fake believers, not true believers.

believers are not Christians

 

[theefaith]

This may well be, ultimately, the single most important point of contention between Catholics and Protestants: God made it so we don't need anyone telling us what is truth and what is not.

"And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. ...His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things..." 1 John 2:27​

As you can see, we have within us the voice of the Holy Spirit to tell us if what we are told is truth or not. No man can usurp that authority and force his opinion onto the true believer about what is truth and what is not. Discernment of truth is an individual liberty given to each true believer.

Explain matt 28:19-20

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: (the apostles)

 

[theefaith]

Don't tell me, tell @theefaith.

no cos Thee faith don’t recognize it

 

[theefaith]

Christ teaches all true believers. Through the Holy Spirit.

"...the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you." John 15:16

that you is the apostles who are commanded to teach the people
And the people obey them as Christ commanded Matt 28:19-20

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Explain matt 28:19-20

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: (the apostles)

They did that. What's to explain?
They're teaching the people of God to this day through the pages of our Bibles.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you cannot do this

you have no priesthood

Technically, all believers are in the priestly service of God (1 Peter 2:5). But for the sake of your argument for hierarchy in the church, our priesthood is every believer among us called to an Ephesians 4:17 office. For example, Paul refers to his work as an apostle and evangelist as a priestly duty:

"...because of the grace God has given me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God..." Romans 15:15-16​

No sacrifice

Jesus is our Sacrifice...

"For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." 1 Corinthians 5:7

"we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Hebrews 10:10​

No holy communion

We observe the Communion commemoration passed down to believers:

"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes." 1 Corinthians 11:23-26​

No life grace or salvation

Yes, we believers have those, too. Whoever believes in Jesus has that:

Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him...
And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son." 1 John 5:10-11​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Probably a modernist
You can only be baptized justification once

So you Catholics are divided up like the Protestants?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

teach all nations Matt 28:19

we must be taught Lk 1:4

most people before the 20th century were illiterate
Bibles were rare and expensive

You still don't understand. The message comes to us via teachers, and prophets, and evangelists, etc. We don't write our own doctrines. What we have is our own ability to discern who's message is truth and who's is not. This ability is in us via the Holy Spirit. That's what 1 John 2:20 and 1 John 2:26-27 teaches us.

In the old covenant the people of God were helplessly at the mercy of corrupt leadership telling them what is truth and what is not. Ezekiel prophesied of the day when the Lord Himself would shepherd His flock and rescue His people from the corruption of the old covenant system of shepherd and sheep (Ezekiel 34:11-16). We Protestants know that we are no longer at the mercy of false leaders, like you are in the Catholic church. If we encounter a false Ephesians 4:17 minister we can walk away and find one who is not false. You can't. You HAVE to endure their falseness. You aren't allowed to discern or resist the church's decision of who will hold a spiritual office over you. You have not been rightly taught by your leadership that you do not have to submit to such a corrupt system. We have been taught that. We understand our ability and our right to exercise our God given power of discernment. Catholics don't, because their leaders told them they don't have that ability and right. Can you see the tragic irony in that?

 

[amigo de christo]

They did that. What's to explain?
They're teaching the people of God to this day through the pages of our Bibles.

Thats right ferris . That is right . Let all praise and thank the LORD .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

where does Jesus say go into the whole world and hand out bibles let people decide for themselves!

Paul did not lord it over the people he taught like the Catholics do:

"I speak to reasonable people; judge for yourselves what I say." 1 Corinthians 10:15

​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

no faith alone avails nothing

Correct. Faith that is alone, having no works, is not the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. That's why faith that is alone can not save a person—it's not the faith that justifies all by itself. If it was, it would produce works in that person.

Ultimately, a person's lack of works shows that they do not have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Just as the presence of works shows a person does have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works.