Bible alone

[Ronald Nolette]

Questions about the doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is our only authority”?

How can we know what is scripture?

How can we know what is not scripture?

How can we safeguard and protect scripture from errors?

Who has authority to teach scripture without error?

Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?

Where does it say the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”?

Why does scripture teach the authority of Christ in His church in the persons of the apostles?
AKA The Apostolic Tradition (teaching)

more? Ok!

WHEN???

When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?

When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?

When it was taught by the apostles?

When it was Written down decades latter?

When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?

When did it become the inspired word of God?

If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!

If you do not know th e answers to these- you need to spend some serious time in prayer!

 

[Jim B]

Your previous post contains 17 questions.
You demand that I answer them.

However, you don't seem interested in answering any.

Your style of interaction is to throw 17 questions at someone and then, if they fail to answer just one, use that one to claim some kind of theological authority in your position. That is likely why you have 13,000+ posts and fewer than 1,000 likes.

The only people in the New Covenant are the houses of Israel and Judah. (Hebrews 8:8) There are no Gentiles mentioned.

Should I believe you are Paul? Gentiles are mentioned 89 times in the New Testament. Here are a few verses...

"The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were greatly astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles" Acts 10:45

"Now the apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles too had accepted the word of God." Acts 11:1

"When they heard this, they ceased their objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted the repentance that leads to life even to the Gentiles.”" Acts 11:18

"When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and praise the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed for eternal life believed." Acts 13:48

"“Therefore be advised that this salvation from God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen!” Acts 28:28

"I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous." Romans 11:11

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel to Abraham ahead of time, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” Galatians 3:8

"namely, that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 3:6

So your statement that "the only people in the New Covenant are the houses of Israel and Judah. (Hebrews 8:8) There are no Gentiles mentioned" is categorically untrue!

 

[theefaith]

If you do not know th e answers to these- you need to spend some serious time in prayer!

I would prefer you tell me

 

[Robert Gwin]

matt 10:2 Peter is first
Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (apostles) always yo the end

Jesus was speaking to a crowd of aprox 500 disciples when he departed to heaven Faith, not just the faithful 11. The apostles are long gone, as you seen in the verse we are to make disciples, all Christians today are his disciples.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus was speaking to a crowd of aprox 500 disciples when he departed to heaven Faith, not just the faithful 11. The apostles are long gone, as you seen in the verse we are to make disciples, all Christians today are his disciples.

There is a big difference between the people, the laity, the nations and the priesthood, the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

the apostles have authority to forgive sins against God and His commandments, Jn 20:23

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would prefer you tell me

YOu would need to start a new thread. I will not clog this one up with all teh teaching that would have to be done to show you. So if you are really interested start a new thread and PM me when you do.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There is a big difference between the people, the laity, the nations and the priesthood, the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

the apostles have authority to forgive sins against God and His commandments, Jn 20:23

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

Subject ran it's course sir.

 

[theefaith]

Subject ran it's course sir.

I win! Sweet!

 

[Josho]

Bible Alone!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16

The problem with Bible alone is it can leave out what is happening today, what the Holy Spirit is doing in people's lives or through Christian lives today or how the power of God is being displayed today whether it be salvations, prophecy, healing, casting out of demons, God given dreams, God given visions, miracles, signs and wonders, etc. Those are living breathing displays of the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of Jesus today. The God we serve is a living God, and is still working today.

 

[Jim B]

I win! Sweet!

"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." John, Viscount Morley On Compromise, 1874.

Why do you see this as a competition? You are not a winner!!!

 

[Jim B]

There is a big difference between the people, the laity, the nations and the priesthood, the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

the apostles have authority to forgive sins against God and His commandments, Jn 20:23

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The usual nonsense, full of errors.

 

[Jim B]

Subject ran it's course sir.

You are correct! theefaith has a compulsive need to post the same false doctrine over and over and over. He is under the delusion that if he keeps at it people will believe him. No chance!!!

 

[Jim B]

The problem with Bible alone is it can leave out what is happening today, what the Holy Spirit is doing in people's lives or through Christian lives today or how the power of God is being displayed today whether it be salvations, prophecy, healing, casting out of demons, God given dreams, God given visions, miracles, signs and wonders, etc. Those are living breathing displays of the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of Jesus today. The God we serve is a living God, and is still working today.

This is a misinterpretation of "Bible alone", a.k.a., sola scriptura. What that means is that in matters of faith, the Bible alone is the source of all truth. The truths of God are eternal; they apply to all people for all time.

 

[atpollard]

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the divine tradition: Christ taught the Apostles who wrote the sacred scripture, not the men that came hundreds and thousands of years later claiming to have new teachings from Christ.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the power of the Holy Spirit: He guided the Apostles into all truth and to record that truth in the 66 books of the God-breathed scripture; He guided the Church to follow His Word and to reject the words of mere men added on to the revelation of God to distort the Gospel of Christ.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the apostolic tradition: It is the dross of uninspired human tradition that is rejected.

 

[Jim B]

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the divine tradition: Christ taught the Apostles who wrote the sacred scripture, not the men that came hundreds and thousands of years later claiming to have new teachings from Christ.


Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the power of the Holy Spirit: He guided the Apostles into all truth and to record that truth in the 66 books of the God-breathed scripture; He guided the Church to follow His Word and to reject the words of mere men added on to the revelation of God to distort the Gospel of Christ.


Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the apostolic tradition: It is the dross of uninspired human tradition that is rejected.

Great post! Thanks!

However, theefaith will never depart from his endless, out-of-context repetitions of RCC dogma.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is a misinterpretation of "Bible alone", a.k.a., sola scriptura. What that means is that in matters of faith, the Bible alone is the source of all truth. The truths of God are eternal; they apply to all people for all time.

NOW, all you have to do is yo show wheere the BIBLE makes this claim.
Cam you do that?

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the divine tradition: Christ taught the Apostles who wrote the sacred scripture, not the men that came hundreds and thousands of years later claiming to have new teachings from Christ.

INCORRECT.

Christ DID teach the Apostles, who wrote SOME of what He taught. We are told in Scripture that NOT everytinbg He did was written down because "the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written" (John 21:26).

We are ALSO told that the Apostles conveyed the Word of God by ORAL TRADITION - OR by Written Letter (2 Thess. 2:15).

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the power of the Holy Spirit:

He guided the Apostles into all truth and to record that truth in the 66 books of the God-breathed scripture; He guided the Church to follow His Word and to reject the words of mere men added on to the revelation of God to distort the Gospel of Christ.

INCORRECT.

The Holy Spirit guides His CHURCH to all truth (John 16:12-15) - and much of that truth was recorded in the 73 BOOKS of Scripture.
The fact that your Protestant Fathers removes 7 Books and portions of Daniel and Esther from the OT Canon is their folly.

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the apostolic tradition: It is the dross of uninspired human tradition that is rejected.

INCORRECT.

As I already showed you - the Word of GoD is passed on through Scripture AND Sacred Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6,1 Cor. 11:2).
One GLARING example is the Canono of Scripture. NOWHERE does the Bible teach which Books belong in it. This was declared by His CHURCH.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If you do not know th e answers to these- you need to spend some serious time in prayer!

Actually - do YOU know the answers to any of these questions?

 

[atpollard]

Christ DID teach the Apostles, who wrote SOME of what He taught.

I never claimed otherwise. They wrote “everything necessary” (the Bible does say that).

We are told in Scripture that NOT everytinbg He did was written down because "the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written" (John 21:26).

True, but irrelevant. Are you a “Gnostic” claiming to have some secret knowledge from Christ handed down to you by word of mouth or some secret writings? The Apostles warned about such false teachers.

We are ALSO told that the Apostles conveyed the Word of God by ORAL TRADITION - OR by Written Letter (2 Thess. 2:15).

Here is the NLT translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 since you are struggling with reading comprehension:

“With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.”​

You have missed the point that the WRITTEN and the VERBAL are in agreement. THAT is the whole point of Sola Scriptura … anything “verbal” that we hear (which cannot be verified as true by asking the Apostles) must agree with what was WRITTEN by the Apostles (and has already been verified as God-breathed).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Actually - do YOU know the answers to any of these questions?

Yes I do. do you? Or do you tow the staunch Catholic line on many of them?