Bible alone

[Jim B]

I never claimed otherwise. They wrote “everything necessary” (the Bible does say that).


True, but irrelevant. Are you a “Gnostic” claiming to have some secret knowledge from Christ handed down to you by word of mouth or some secret writings? The Apostles warned about such false teachers.


Here is the NLT translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 since you are struggling with reading comprehension:

“With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.”​

You have missed the point that the WRITTEN and the VERBAL are in agreement. THAT is the whole point of Sola Scriptura … anything “verbal” that we hear (which cannot be verified as true by asking the Apostles) must agree with what was WRITTEN by the Apostles (and has already been verified as God-breathed).

Great post!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never claimed otherwise. They wrote “everything necessary” (the Bible does say that).

WRONG.

The Bible says that Scripte is PROFITABLE for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness (2 Tim, 3:16). It does NOT say that it is sufficient.
Jesus equates His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5), which Scripture calls the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23) and the Piullar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

He DOESN'T make that claim about the written Word alone.

True, but irrelevant. Are you a “Gnostic” claiming to have some secret knowledge from Christ handed down to you by word of mouth or some secret writings? The Apostles warned about such false teachers.

Jesus NEVER told His disciples - "Whoever READS and rejects your writings rejects ME."
He said:
Luke 10:16
Whoever LISTENS to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

He gave His Church suprememe earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church loosed or held boun on earth would be loosed and held bound in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

Here is the NLT translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 since you are struggling with reading comprehension:

“With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.”​

You have missed the point that the WRITTEN and the VERBAL are in agreement. THAT is the whole point of Sola Scriptura … anything “verbal” that we hear (which cannot be verified as true by asking the Apostles) must agree with what was WRITTEN by the Apostles (and has already been verified as God-breathed).

WRONG.
That's NOT what the text says.

It says to hold fat to whaat they were being taught by the Church - EITHER BY an oral statement - OR BY a letter. I says NOTHING about the oral "agreeing" with the written because they could be completely different subjects.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes I do. do you? Or do you tow the staunch Catholic line on many of them?

Then, can you answer some of them - because they were asked of YOU.

How about just the first two, for starters . . .
How can we know what is scripture?
How can we know what is not scripture?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Great post!

Not when you read the response in post #42 . . .

 

[atpollard]

He gave His Church suprememe earthly Authority

This is one of those dangerous teachings of men that neither Jesus nor His Apostles ever made. Jesus gave specific authority to HIS APOSTLES (that is what makes them “apostles” or “ones sent”), but Jesus never told them to pass on that authority. The apostles are not God, they cannot assign authority as God assigns authority. It is the HOLY SPIRIT that distributes to the Body according to His desire, not according to man’s desires.

Soli Deo Gloria! (All Glory to God Alone!)

 

[Jim B]

Not when you read the response in post #42 . . .

How modest of you!

I have read your stuff before and generally disagree with it. I have you on "ignore" so I don't have to read your posts unless I want to (which is infrequently).

BTW, it is only reasonable and courteous to write in legible, grammatically correct English. Your rant is full of typos.

Examples...

He gave His Church suprememe earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church loosed or held boun on earth would be loosed and held bound in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

It says to hold fat to whaat they were being taught by the Church

 

[atpollard]

WRONG.

The Bible says that Scripte is PROFITABLE for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness (2 Tim, 3:16). It does NOT say that it is sufficient.
Jesus equates His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5), which Scripture calls the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23) and the Piullar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

He DOESN'T make that claim about the written Word alone.

RIGHT.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 [NASB95]

14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned [them,] 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
​

I don’t care what you THINK, God’s Word says that Scripture is sufficient. John says that he WROTE what is needed for salvation and life. Paul says all scripture will make us adequate and equipped for every good work.

From Ephesians 2:1-10, we know that covers EVERYTHING. Anything men added to that is men attempting to “boast in your flesh” whom Paul suggests should go all the way and emasculate themselves. We were warned about men that would add their traditions to supersede God’s word.

Pharisee much?

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is one of those dangerous teachings of men that neither Jesus nor His Apostles ever made. Jesus gave specific authority to HIS APOSTLES (that is what makes them “apostles” or “ones sent”), but Jesus never told them to pass on that authority. The apostles are not God, they cannot assign authority as God assigns authority. It is the HOLY SPIRIT that distributes to the Body according to His desire, not according to man’s desires.

Soli Deo Gloria! (All Glory to God Alone!)

Not only COULD the Apostles assign Authority - the DID assign it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Ummmmmm - how do you think THEY made Matthais an Apostle in Acts 1??

WHY do you think THEY laid hands on those whom THEY appoinyed as Overseers (Bishops)??

WHY, at the Council of Jerusalem in iin Acts 15 did THEY write:
Acts 14:24
We have heard that some went out from us WITHOUT OUR AUTHORIZATION and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

Acts 15:28
It seemed good to the HOLY SPIRIT AND TO US not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

They had the God-given Authority to pass on that God-given Authority as THEY were guided by the Holy spirit to do so - as they did with Judas's successor in Acts 1.

 

[BreadOfLife]

How modest of you!
I have read your stuff before and generally disagree with it. I have you on "ignore" so I don't have to read your posts unless I want to (which is infrequently).
BTW, it is only reasonable and courteous to write in legible, grammatically correct English. Your rant is full of typos.
Examples...
He gave His Church suprememe earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church loosed or held boun on earth would be loosed and held bound in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

It says to hold fat to whaat they were being taught by the Church

In other words - you're NOT equipped to anser ANY of the points I made.
Perhaps, you should step aside, then and allow others who ARE equipped to argue in YOUR stead.

PS - Don't make me show you the typos in your OWN posts - like I did last time you put me on "ignore" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

RIGHT.
2 Timothy 3:14-17 [NASB95]

14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned [them,] 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
​

I don’t care what you THINK, God’s Word says that Scripture is sufficient. John says that he WROTE what is needed for salvation and life. Paul says all scripture will make us adequate and equipped for every good work.

From Ephesians 2:1-10, we know that covers EVERYTHING. Anything men added to that is men attempting to “boast in your flesh” whom Paul suggests should go all the way and emasculate themselves.

Pharisee much?

WRONG again.

You're trying to force your false, man-made beliefs about Scripture onto Scripture itself.
2 Timothy 3:14-17 says plainly that the Scriptures are able to give you the wisdom that LEADS TO salvation through FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

NOWHERE does this even IMPLY That Scripture is "sufficient" or "ALL" you need.
ALL ut says is that t is ABLE to lead you to Wisdom that LEADS to faith, which LEADS to salvation.

Jim Jones knew the Bible from cover to cover. Yet, in the end, it DIDN'T lead him to salvation - DID it? He wound up killing himself and 912 other people who trusted in HIS Bblical knowledge.

The Bible is ABLE to lead you to wisdom and faith - but it NEVER says that it is "ALL" you need. Your Protestant Fathers invented that belief some 500 years ago . . .

We were warned about men that would add their traditions to supersede God’s word.

Yip -like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, doesn't teach a SINGLE Sacred Tradition that "superceds" the Word of God.

 

[Taken]

I don’t care what you THINK, God’s Word says that Scripture is sufficient. John says that he WROTE what is needed for salvation and life. Paul says all scripture will make us adequate and equipped for every good work.

From Ephesians 2:1-10, we know that covers EVERYTHING. Anything men added to that is men attempting to “boast in your flesh” whom Paul suggests should go all the way and emasculate themselves. We were warned about men that would add their traditions to supersede God’s word.

Pharisee much?

Correct.

 

[atpollard]

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, doesn't teach a SINGLE Sacred Tradition that "superceds" the Word of God.

*cough* Prayers to the dead. *cough*
*cough* Queen of Heaven. *cough*
*cough* Purgatory. *cough*

No, not a SINGLE … more like a PLETHORA.

 

[atpollard]

The Bible is ABLE to lead you to wisdom and faith - but it NEVER says that it is "ALL" you need. Your Protestant Fathers invented that belief some 500 years ago . . .

In response to your Catholic Fathers offering salvation for sale as indulgences to fund the political corruption that allowed wealthy families to BUY their titles as Cardinals and Popes. (If you REALLY want to discuss the reason for the Protestant Reformation).

However, I am a Particular Baptist … so we grew out of a different source than Martin Luther and the corruption in the RCC. It is also worth pointing out that the other Apostolic Churches (the Orthodox Churches) called out the Bishop of Rome on the RCC Apostasy 500 years before the Protestant Reformation. So comparing Jim Jones and the Pope is apropos … both believed that they had authority equal to God and should be worshipped without question by men.

 

[Marine0311]

Bible Alone!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16

 

[Marine0311]

Bible Alone!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16

 

[Marine0311]

Roman Catholics have to discredit “ bible alone” because scripture exposes the multitude of lies the RCC passes off as truth.

 

[BeyondET]

I guess it isn't impossible to find out some of those things He done that isn't written.

John 21:25
There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

 

[Taken]

This is one of those dangerous teachings of men that neither Jesus nor His Apostles ever made. Jesus gave specific authority to HIS APOSTLES (that is what makes them “apostles” or “ones sent”), but Jesus never told them to pass on that authority. The apostles are not God, they cannot assign authority as God assigns authority. It is the HOLY SPIRIT that distributes to the Body according to His desire, not according to man’s desires.

Soli Deo Gloria! (All Glory to God Alone!)

Yes.

The HIGHLIGHT IS: Doesn’t matter WHO is doing the Preaching, Gods WAY is ALWAYS according to the Word of God.

The SCRIPTURE IS: The express WAY to Verify what is being Preached, IS Gods Word.

 

[Taken]

I guess it isn't impossible to find out some of those things He done that isn't written.

John 21:25
There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

Hi- Welcome to the forum.

Key word is “DID”.
I’m sure Jesus “DID” a multitude of miracles the Disciples witnessed that prepared the Disciples to Teach and Preach as Confidant and Trustworthy Apostles according to the Word of God.

The disagreement between Catholics and Protestants hangs on the discrepancy between what “WAS” Scripturally revealed by Jesus and by His Apostles “DID” teach and “WAS” written “according to” Jesus and His Apostles”,
AND
what was written later by Men not appointed By Jesus, their Names not included in Scripture, their Words not included in Scripture, their Words not verified by Jesus’ Word, their Words not verified by the Apostles,
YET
Accredited by Catholics as being Sound Doctrine.
(A repetitively appointed earthly holy father, praying to the dead, praying to saints, the statues, the bowing down to, the trinkets exalting of saints, the highly gross elaboration of Mariology, the receiving of the Holy Spirit without confession of Belief, the repeated life style of plotting and carrying out of deceit and crimes and quick trip to “the church” to be absolved of their of repetitive deceit plotting and carrying out intended crimes, the mans offering of money or labor to support the ‘churches’ agenda, absolves a man of his trespasses and sins, on and on.)
AND
Rejected by Protestants as such things being Sound Doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Bible alone
OP ^

Bible alone for VERIFICATION of what you Hear Preached...ABSOLUTELY!

The Word of God, called it NOBLE.

NOBLE means: Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor.

Acts 17:
[11] These (In Berra) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that (BECAUSE) they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Cor 1:
[26] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


@theefaith @BreadOfLife Get over it.
Some men choose the God Inspired Written Word of God IN the BIBLE, OVER the Written Word of men after the flesh, NOT Written IN the Bible.

Some men choose to NOT be Confounded BY men after the flesh, as unbelieving Jews in Thessalonica did:
They not only “not believing”, The word of God; but “instigating” a “religious AND political” uproar in an effort to oppress, the Teaching of Jesus “His Spiritual Wisdom and Righteousness and Sanctification and Redemption” by the mouth of Jesus’ chosen vessel, Paul.

Acts 17...The parallel of Jews in the Synagogue in Thessononia rejection of Scripture, rejection of Paul’s Preaching, the instigating against Scripture, the instigating against those who Standing is IN Scripture and IN Christ.

Sound familiar?