Biblical Evidence God Doesn't Exist: using logic rather than belief.

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shnarkle

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Why do we even need to defend our faith?

There is no need whatsoever. Only those who have that burning in their hearts to spread the good news are going to want to in the first place. They're always ready with a defense for their faith. Once the good news has been revealed, we can all relate to those who met Christ on the road to Emmaus. Those who can't, have other needs. Yours seems to be posting pointless replies to posts you're not even interested in.
 

shnarkle

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So the bible - old and new testaments - are all about God.

Could you be more vague? In the beginning Adam is created in God's image. In Revelation, man creates god in man's image. In the Old Testament Adam must take responsibility for his own fallen life. In the New Testament, it is Christ who takes responsibility for our actions. What was lost in the old is redeemed in the new. What begins in the flesh is brought to eternal life in, with, and through Christ. What comes from God returns as well.
 

amadeus

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If you look at the title, it really doesn't have anything to do with what you believe or why. It is referring to a logical argument using biblical passages to point out that the authors go to great lengths to point out that God is the origin and source of existence. The fact that this bothers you so much you can't even begin to look at what I've posted without high jacking the thread to your beliefs is telling.

There is all the difference in the world between believing that you may see, and believing what you see. To see that God is the origin is not to see God, but "the word".


And it is only those who seek the truth who can find it. It is only those who have the faith of Christ that can please God. Your faith is useless if it isn't Christ's
I read your OP and see no edifying purpose to it. It is simply confusing to anyone wanting something other than a supposed exercise of logic.

You won't help someone who is already a believer and you may simply further confuse someone who is doubtful about becoming a believer. Since this is a Christian forum as someone already mentioned, I see no good purpose for me to pursue this with you. Perhaps you will find another here who will.
 
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shnarkle

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I read your OP and see no edifying purpose to it.


Fortunately, your inability will not preclude others from benefiting from it.

It is simply confusing to anyone wanting something other than a supposed exercise of logic.

Anyone? Perhaps you might want to confine your comments to what you actually know which is that you're confused.


You won't help someone who is already a believer

Again, I would only suggest you confine your comments to your will rather than mine.

and you may simply further confuse someone who is doubtful about becoming a believer.

May confuse? So your admitted conjecture is supposed to be reason enough for me to cease from posting here? I'm not looking to convince people of their need to become believers in what they have no clue of to begin with. This seems to be the case with most who frequent this site. Most of the trolls on this site aren't interested in contributing anything to an honest discussion or debate. Case in point; you. To an atheist, agnostic, or skeptic, my proof is more than enough for them to see that they actually have quite a bit of common ground with the authors of the bible. This is how one reaches unbelievers with the gospel message. It's about learning to speak their language so they can understand rather than spouting what only you care about, and probably never understood in the first place.

Since this is a Christian forum as someone already mentioned, I see no good purpose for me to pursue this with you. Perhaps you will find another here who will.

I see no good purpose for you to even bother posting in this thread in the first place. So I would have to agree with your assessment wholeheartedly. Perhaps you can keep this in mind the next time you see a post with my "handle" attached to it.
 

shnarkle

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Another nonsensical thread. If God does not exist, are you here simply to troll?
If God doesn't exist, then I'm here to point out the truth. How is that trolling?
 

ScottA

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Just what do the biblical authors mean by "God" anyways? We all know that all gods are imaginary, right? So what makes the biblical god any different than, oh let's say the 330 million deities that populate the Hindu pantheon of gods?

Well for starters, the biblical authors distinguish their "God" from the rest by pointing out that if you're imagining anything about "God", you're not imagining God at all. You're just looking at the product of your own imagination. They even have a word for it. They call it idolatry.

An idol is any object that is viewed as a god itself. In other words, the biblical authors don't believe in objectifying "God" at all. They can imagine all sorts of gods just like the next guy, and they can admit that these gods are all imaginary. In fact, they would be the first to point out that they aren't gods at all. They're simply imaginary ideas. That's not what they mean by "God", and whatever meanings or definitions they do come up with aren't God either. They're just meanings and definitions for the word "God", which they will be the first to admit is simply a symbol for its meaning. Again, words and meanings are not gods; they're words with associated meanings.

Paul also points out that Christ isn't God when he refers to him as "the image of the invisible God"(Col.1:15). The word he uses for "image" is the Greek "eikon" which is where we get words like 'icon';"iconography"; "iconoclastic" etc. An icon should not be confused with an idol. As noted previously, an idol is worshipped as god, but an icon is a representation of God, and representations are not gods themselves.

Some would hasten to note that these two terms are synonymous, but this is only in relation to "things", and the biblical authors don't include God as any thing.

Given that the word "God" is essentially undefinable, unimaginable, and unknowable, thats what Jesus represents. He is an immanent representation of transcendence.

The biblical authors have a name for their "God" which they call "YHVH" which means "I will be", or "I will be what I will be", and what will be doesn't exist. Potentiality is not actuality.

They use words like "incomparable" or "there is none beside me". In other words, there is no referent for transcendence. There is no essential difference between the word "God" and nothing. There is no referent for God other than the word "God" itself.

The New Testament's gospel of John points out essentially the same thing. The introduction doesn't begin with "in the beginning was God". Why? Because God doesn't exist. He begins with "in the beginning was the word". That's all there is to begin with.

He then continues by pointing out that everything that exists is created(vs. 3), and at no time does he or anyone else ever suggest that God is created. Therefore, for those who are lacking even rudimentary reading comprehension skills, it logically follows that God doesn't exist. This is especially so given that the biblical authors view the objective world as the created world. So by definition, God can't objectively exist in the created world.

Paul reaffirms this in his letter to the Corinthians when he points out that God is the origin (not to be confused or conflated with "beginning") of all that exists while Christ is the means by which everything exists (1 Corinthians 8:6).

For those who insist in asking the question, "Who created God?, Paul's argument refutes that by pointing out that the origin of existence cannot logically exist without creating an infinite regression. So he has simultaneously admitted that God doesn't exist and denied the need for an infinte regression.
Hahaha...you have not discovered God, but man.

Even so, what you have said is full of holes.

Where to begin? Let me just say, as for God being "unknowable", you obviously speak for yourself. But you are wrong, and your lack of knowing, does not qualify you to say. Or should I say, Your "nonexistent" knowledge, leaves you with nothing.
 

shnarkle

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as for God being "unknowable", you obviously speak for yourself.

Not really. Paul admits as much when he corrects himself in his letter to the Galatians.

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Note how I'm using scripture to back up my argument? This is a debate group, is it not? Are you ever going to supply anything other than these baseless assertions?

Paul understands that an omniscient God, by definition can't be known. It's the difference between knowing and known. By definition, an all-knowing God can never be known. The same holds for transcendence as well. So evidently most people on this forum still believe in a god that isn't transcendent, at least one that will probably never transcend their own ideas of who god is for them.

Again, for anyone who might be interested in engaging in a genuine debate on the subject, the biblical authors have a word for people like that. They refer to them as "idolaters".
 

farouk

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I read your OP and see no edifying purpose to it. It is simply confusing to anyone wanting something other than a supposed exercise of logic.

You won't help someone who is already a believer and you may simply further confuse someone who is doubtful about becoming a believer. Since this is a Christian forum as someone already mentioned, I see no good purpose for me to pursue this with you. Perhaps you will find another here who will.
I was puzzled also...
 

Miss Hepburn

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I'm not denying the existence of reality, nor the reality of God.
If you had bothered to read the rest of the post, you might have been able to see that.
.
Bothered? You say? Why would anyone want to read further after that sentence....saying 'gods' and not God...
and imaginary...nope.
Maybe the problem is just as a writer... that was not the best choice in opening remarks for this crowd...or at least 'me'...who doesn't
open to such talk when I come to a Christian sight to get away from speculations about gods or God's very existence.

If you said something diff later...great...you lost me! Take care.
 
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farouk

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Bothered? You say? Why would anyone want to read further after that sentence....saying 'gods' and not God...
and imaginary...nope.
Maybe the problem is just as a writer... that was not the best choice in opening remarks for this crowd...or at least 'me'...who doesn't
open to such talk when I come to a Christian sight to get away from speculations about gods or God's very existence.

If you said something diff later...great...you lost me! Take care.
Yes, it was really odd, wasn't it @Miss Hepburn ?
 

Miss Hepburn

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I'm on a Christian debate site to engage in debate. Why are you here, if you're not interested in engaging in debate? Peter suggests that one have a defense for their faith, I presumed that Christians on a debate site would surely be able to defend their faith in that type of forum. This is what I'm doing.
Good point....could have been done better, tho...maybe some warning...
"I would like to start a debate with you all..." then start in slower...not with a 1-2 punch?
 

Hidden In Him

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The biblical authors have a name for their "God" which they call "YHVH" which means "I will be", or "I will be what I will be", and what will be doesn't exist.

"I will be. I sure wish I were now, but I would be lying if I said so. But I will be. You mark my words!" - Almighty God.
 

farouk

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Good point....could have been done better, tho...maybe some warning...
"I would like to start a debate with you all..." then start in slower...not with a 1-2 punch?
Some ppl do seem to thrive on debate...

(Whether it is always a search for truth from God's Word is another matter...)
 

jaybird

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Biblical Evidence God Doesn't Exist: using logic rather than belief.

to the ancient Jews, mystics, and many schools of eastern thought, this was never an issue, they believed science/logic/spirituality all coexist together.
many today just dont get this, however if you do need a logical, scientific explanation confirming the existence of the Most High, i would suggest reading Platonic thought, da Vinci, or modern intelligent design theory.
 

Enoch111

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If God doesn't exist, then I'm here to point out the truth. How is that trolling?
Since the truth is that God DOES EXIST, any attempt to discount that is simply trolling. Now if you are an atheist, you should be joining your atheistic friends -- perhaps the Communists.
 

ScottA

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Not really. Paul admits as much when he corrects himself in his letter to the Galatians.



Note how I'm using scripture to back up my argument? This is a debate group, is it not? Are you ever going to supply anything other than these baseless assertions?

Paul understands that an omniscient God, by definition can't be known. It's the difference between knowing and known. By definition, an all-knowing God can never be known. The same holds for transcendence as well. So evidently most people on this forum still believe in a god that isn't transcendent, at least one that will probably never transcend their own ideas of who god is for them.

Again, for anyone who might be interested in engaging in a genuine debate on the subject, the biblical authors have a word for people like that. They refer to them as "idolaters".
Please use the "Reply" feature so we know when you have made a reply.

That is not what Paul is saying. He is saying just the opposite, that they had known God. So you are calling him a liar.

As for debate and assertions, I am doing neither, but witnessing to the truth. That may not be what you want, but it is the way of God. Take it or leave it. I can back up everything I say...but I am running short of time and will have to get back to you. What specifically would you like me to elaborate on?

As for words, are you calling me an "idolater?"