Biblical Foreknowledge

[Grailhunter]

What does the second commandment teach?
It does not mention fruit.
Most Calvinists obey the ten commandments.
You think they are commandments or suggestions?

I think they are for the Jews....hello....look to the law for righteousness and you are severed from Christ and have fallen from Grace. How may ways does Paul have to tell you that you are not of the Law......not even one. And if you pick one and pluck it out, Christ says you will be the least in heaven....but then again you might want to try it.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I think they are for the Jews....hello....look to the law for righteousness and you are severed from Christ and have fallen from Grace. How may ways does Paul have to tell you that you are not of the Law......not even one. And if you pick one and pluck it out, Christ says you will be the least in heaven....but then again you might want to try it.

Well Gh,
You might think that to go along with all of your other errors.
The 10 commandments were before Israel was a nation.
The ten commandments are for all mankind.
The ten commandments are for Christians

 

[John Caldwell]

I think they are for the Jews....hello....look to the law for righteousness and you are severed from Christ and have fallen from Grace. How may ways does Paul have to tell you that you are not of the Law......not even one. And if you pick one and pluck it out, Christ says you will be the least in heaven....but then again you might want to try it.

They are:
Deuteronomy 5:2-5
The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.

But for its moral aspects, they also reveal God's nature.

Paul actually addresses this topic. Idols are meaningless. It is idolatry that is a sin (anything, even one's theology, can be an idol).

Most of the time ionoclastism on these types of forums is nothing but hypocrisy. The iconoclast is quick to condemn people having a representation of Christ or a cross on a necklace or a fish on their bumper. But consider the commandment-

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

These iconoclasts often have facebook accounts with pictures of themselves, perhaps photographs at home of their families, of kids and grandchildren, maybe a landscape painting.

For us, the principle is against idolatry. This was expressed to the Jew via the Law in a very specific sense - no images of things in heaven, earth, seas....nothing.

An honest iconoclast would probably not even have an online presence so as not to violate the command. Historically Iconoclastism had no images.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well Gh,
You might think that to go along with all of your other errors.
The 10 commandments were before Israel was a nation.
The ten commandments are for all mankind.
The ten commandments are for Christians

Slow in the head and completely wrong not under the Law. OMG! They are part of the Mosaic Law...613 of them...no law no law no law!

 

[Grailhunter]

They are:
Deuteronomy 5:2-5
The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.

But for its moral aspects, they also reveal God's nature.

Paul actually addresses this topic. Idols are meaningless. It is idolatry that is a sin (anything, even one's theology, can be an idol).

Most of the time ionoclastism on these types of forums is nothing but hypocrisy. The iconoclast is quick to condemn people having a representation of Christ or a cross on a necklace or a fish on their bumper. But consider the commandment-

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

These iconoclasts often have facebook accounts with pictures of themselves, perhaps photographs at home of their families, of kids and grandchildren, maybe a landscape painting.

For us, the principle is against idolatry. This was expressed to the Jew via the Law in a very specific sense - no images of things in heaven, earth, seas....nothing.

An honest iconoclast would probably not even have an online presence so as not to violate the command. Historically Iconoclastism had no images.

Your point! No law from the Old Testament carries over into the New Covenant....period....done!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Antinomian persons do not understand the law.
Iconoclasts did understand
.They destroyed idols....They were not commanded to destroy them. But they did.
Pictures of hippie types are not pictures of Jesus.
We have no similitude of Jesus
Deut4:12

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Your point! No law from the Old Testament carries over into the New Covenant....period....done!

You do not know what you are talking about once again.when you depart from scripture that is the kind of foolish statement you make..
The 10 commandments are still in effect as are several other laws.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Slow in the head and completely wrong not under the Law. OMG! They are part of the Mosaic Law...613 of them...no law no law no law!

You really have no clue do you?
Because they were included in the Law given in stone to Israel does not mean they did not exist prior to Israel being a nation.

 

[Grailhunter]

You do not know what you are talking about once again.when you depart from scripture that is the kind of foolish statement you make..
The 10 commandments are still in effect as are several other laws.

I am going to address this just because it is humorous. I am going to say that you do not know the ten laws that God Himself called the "Ten Commandments" and it was a different set that were written on the Tablets of the Testimony. And God never called the first ten laws the Ten Commandments! And still none of them were carried over to the New Covenant!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I am going to address this just because it is humorous. I am going to say that you do not know the ten laws that God Himself called the "Ten Commandments" and it was a different set that were written on the Tablets of the Testimony. And God never called the first ten laws the Ten Commandments! And still none of them were carried over to the New Covenant!

You say a lot of things.
Now if you want to interact ,use scripture or at least try. Then correction can come your way.

 

[Grailhunter]

You say a lot of things.
Now if you want to interact ,use scripture or at least try. Then correction can come your way.

If you do not know the scripture, you need to dive into it. It would do you good to study the evolution of the Law. Not that any of it pertains to Christians. If you cannot find, then ask nicely and we will go through it together.

 

[SovereignGrace]

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,[1 Timothy 2:5]

εἷς γὰρ θεός, εἷς καὶ μεσίτης θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς,

The Greek word used for mediator is μεσίτης, which is mesites. It means...

one that acts between two parties; a mediator, one who interposes to reconcile two adverse parties, 1 Tim. 2:5; an arbitrator, one who is the medium of communication between two parties, a mid-party, Gal. 3:19, 20; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 2 - Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament

This is the Christ in the office of High Priest, as the OT high priest was a mediator between the Jews and God. This office was solely for God's ppl, as the high priest never mediated for the Egyptians, Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Assyrians, Syrians, Philistines, Amalekites, Moabites, &c. So, the ones the Christ mediates for are God's chosen ppl. These ppl are the OT Jewish remnant(along with a smattering of Gentiles), and the NT believers, which comprises the elect Jews and Gentiles.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You do not know what you are talking about once again.when you depart from scripture that is the kind of foolish statement you make..
The 10 commandments are still in effect as are several other laws.

Remember, the ten commands written on tablets was given to the Jews. If what GH is saying is true, and we are not under those commands, then he can worship other gods and not be called an idolater. He can murder someone and not be a murderer. He could steal and not be considered a thief.

There was no mentioning of murdering someone was a sin when Cain murdered Abel, yet God called him out for it. The Law predates Israel, by what(????) 2,000 years at least.

 

[John Caldwell]

Your point! No law from the Old Testament carries over into the New Covenant....period....done!

My point is the Law applied to those under the Law. It does not apply to us. BUT the Law is fulfilled in Christ. Theft is wrong not because it violates the Law but because it violates the nature of Christ.

 

[John Caldwell]

If you do not know the scripture, you need to dive into it. It would do you good to study the evolution of the Law. Not that any of it pertains to Christians. If you cannot find, then ask nicely and we will go through it together.

There are some who view God's righteousness as being manifested through the Law rather than apart from the Law. The problem is they view the Law as the method through which salvation has come rather than a witness to righteousness in that it shows us our sin.

You are asking men to place God's Word over their traditions. This is difficult as it requires a repentance from leaning on human understanding to trusting in God.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are some who view God's righteousness as being manifested through the Law rather than apart from the Law. The problem is they view the Law as the method through which salvation has come rather than a witness to righteousness in th as t it shows us our sin.

You are asking men to place God's Word over their traditions. This is difficult as it requires a repentance from leaning on human understanding to trusting in God.

Sometimes you have to really look closely to find meanings. This one is not, it is a hands down thing. And it is a storyline thing. You can take the dozens of Scriptures of Paul that stand against bringing the Law into Christianity. Some say he put a curse on it. You can look at the storyline, it was a constant battle between Paul and those that wanted the Law in Christianity. Paul had arguments on this. The first Council of Jerusalem where Peter and Paul more or less went up against the other apostles on this issue. On this particular topic, all evidence points to no Laws brought forward to the New Covenant. Now for those that live to merge Judaism with Christianity, I support their right to do that, but leave me out. No Old Testament Laws in the New Covenant...period.

 

[John Caldwell]

Sometimes you have to really look closely to find meanings. This one is not, it is a hands down thing. And it is a storyline thing. You can take the dozens of Scriptures of Paul that stand against bringing the Law into Christianity. Some say he put a curse on it. You can look at the storyline, it was a constant battle between Paul and those that wanted the Law in Christianity. Paul had arguments on this. The first Council of Jerusalem where Peter and Paul more or less went up against the other apostles on this issue. On this particular topic, all evidence points to no Laws brought forward to the New Covenant. Now for those that live to merge Judaism with Christianity, I support their right to do that, but leave me out. No Old Testament Laws in the New Covenant...period.

You are dealing with a Calvinistic understand of redemption which focuses on men and their sin rather than God.

Calvin was an educated man, but he was educated as a lawyer. This is apparent in the tradition. There is no such thing as "biblical Calvinism" because Calvinism re-contextualizes redemption into an issue of the Law rather than a manifestation of God's righteousness apart from the Law.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are dealing with a Calvinistic understand of redemption which focuses on men and their sin rather than God.

Calvin was an educated man, but he was educated as a lawyer. This is apparent in the tradition. There is no such thing as "biblical Calvinism" because Calvinism re-contextualizes redemption into an issue of the Law rather than a manifestation of God's righteousness apart from the Law.

Get that and with you on that. People have the right to believe what they want. Look at the Heaven's Gate religion...they point to Ezekiel as the ship that was going to pick them up.
We still have to get to the humor side of this...."The Great Mistake" of the Ten commandments.

 

[John Caldwell]

Get that and with you on that. People have the right to believe what they want. Look at the Heaven's Gate religion...they point to Ezekiel as the ship that was going to pick them up.
We still have to get to the humor side of this...."The Great Mistake" of the Ten commandments.

The irony is Calvinists are often the loudest at attacking both traditional Christianity and newer theologies, ignoring the fact that Calvinism is relatively new as a "Christian" religion.

The humanistic basis of Calvinism is why I had argued I was not a Calvinist.

 

[Grailhunter]

Here ya go....
Exodus chapter 20
The Hebrews / Israelites, are at Mt Sinai, God speaks from the mountain. After the first ten laws the people freak.
Then after they calm down, God continues with four more laws, and then continues on with some ordinances.
So during this event there are 14 laws, not ten.
Now in Deuteronomy chapter 5, they go back and pick out the first ten and call them the them the Ten Commandments. But God never refers to these as Commandments, or ten of anything. But He does refer to a different set of 10 Laws as commandments
Exodus chapter 34
Verse 11 Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day...
The tablets are called the Tablets of the Testimony Exodus 31:18
God speaks to Moses, He tell him of Ten Laws and tells him to write them down on the tablets. Exodus 34:10-26
Then Exodus 34:27-28 The the Lord said to Moses, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Now later on...after the close of the New Testament someone noticed the error and labeled the first ten laws the Ethical Decalogue and the actual Ten Commandments the Ritual Decalogue. Either way God never refers to the first ten laws as commandments. So all these years Christians have been looking at the wrong set of Ten Commandments and then they try to pluck the first ten laws out to observe. That goes against the religion of Judaism as a great sin, it goes against what Christ said as great sin, and Paul spoke against it a few times, a couple dozen.