Biblical Foreknowledge

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Remember, the ten commands written on tablets was given to the Jews. If what GH is saying is true, and we are not under those commands, then he can worship other gods and not be called an idolater. He can murder someone and not be a murderer. He could steal and not be considered a thief.

There was no mentioning of murdering someone was a sin when Cain murdered Abel, yet God called him out for it. The Law predates Israel, by what(????) 2,000 years at least.

Then again. Brother it is quite instructive two watch 2 antimonians reason carnally against a biblical understanding of law and the Christian,lol
Roman's 13:8-10 was the evil Calvinist the Apostles Paul saying Love is the FULFILLING of the law.
Guess he would have benefited from reading these antinomian posts.

 

[Grailhunter]

The irony is Calvinists are often the loudest at attacking both traditional Christianity and newer theologies, ignoring the fact that Calvinism is relatively new as a "Christian" religion.

The humanistic basis of Calvinism is why I had argued I was not a Calvinist.

You can go count the number of denominations that have formed from the scriptures. Along the way, it appears no one noticed that if there were so many denominations forming that there must be something wrong with the process. The error mostly was not in studying the Spirit that the scriptures were written in, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Christianity as a whole. Asking the questions, why do they love us so much? Why did they do what they did? What was Christ's mission? What would motivate Christ to allow Himself to be nailed to the cross? why why why

 

[Grailhunter]

Then again. Brother it is quite instructive two watch 2 antimonians reason carnally against a biblical understanding of law and the Christian,lol
Roman's 13:8-10 was the evil Calvinist the Apostles Paul saying Love is the FULFILLING of the law.
Guess he would have benefited from reading these antinomian posts.

Have you been drinking?

 

[John Caldwell]

You can go count the number of denominations that have formed from the scriptures. Along the way, it appears no one noticed that if there were so many denominations forming that there must be something wrong with the process. The error mostly was not in studying the Spirit that the scriptures were written in, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Christianity as a whole. Asking the questions, why do they love us so much? Why did they do what they did? What was Christ's mission? What would motivate Christ to allow Himself to be nailed to the cross? why why why

I sometimes hear people speak of getting back to a biblical understanding. Well, we can - we have Scripture.

We will always have differences in interpretations, but these would be minor if only people could look past their philosophies and tradition.

Christians can disagree yet be united in Christ except when their understanding becomes their gospel. You will find that many Calvinists have placed their faith not in Christ but in their own understanding. To them Calvinism is their gospel. They are disciples of men (of Calvin, Gill, Pink, Sproul, Knox...), not of Christ.

 

[John Caldwell]

Have you been drinking?

Me? No. I struggle enough without the effects of alcohol.

 

[Grailhunter]

I sometimes hear people speak of getting back to a biblical understanding. Well, we can - we have Scripture.

We will always have differences in interpretations, but these would be minor if only people could look past their philosophies and tradition.

Christians can disagree yet be united in Christ except when their understanding becomes their gospel. You will find that many Calvinists have placed their faith not in Christ but in their own understanding. To them Calvinism is their gospel. They are disciples of men (of Calvin, Gill, Pink, Sproul, Knox...), not of Christ.

The issue is that the Calvinists do that, the Jehovah's Witness do that, the Branch Davidians do that. No good can come of it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Me? No. I struggle enough without the effects of alcohol.

I did not say that to you..said it to Anthony

 

[John Caldwell]

I did not say that to you..said it to Anthony

Sorry (I don't see his posts).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I sometimes hear people speak of getting back to a biblical understanding. Well, we can - we have Scripture.

We will always have differences in interpretations, but these would be minor if only people could look past their philosophies and tradition.

Christians can disagree yet be united in Christ except when their understanding becomes their gospel. You will find that many Calvinists have placed their faith not in Christ but in their own understanding. To them Calvinism is their gospel. They are disciples of men (of Calvin, Gill, Pink, Sproul, Knox...), not of Christ.

To suggest that Calvinists and the teachers who lived before them are not Christ centered in their lives is a wicked accusation of the brethren.
To suggest the gospel of a Calvinist is not Christ centered is a vile falsehood.
When I see such ignorance and hubris on display, as if Pink, and Sproul, and Knox , did not have bibles to read and study, and commune with Jesus, as well as such distorted views on Church history it is a wonder to behold.
I see this in several posters,who sweep away much truth to impose carnal philosophical ideas as a substitute
No... I will stick with the trusted guides even with their flaws,rather than self centered persons with and evil agenda as Paul spoke of in Phil. 3

 

[John Caldwell]

The issue is that the Calvinists do that, the Jehovah's Witness do that, the Branch Davidians do that. No good can come of it.

I agree. Plus, it does not matter the religion (Paul’s instructions were to Christians). And we also should realize that not all Calvinists are disciples of men (but so many are).

But there are some who follow people like Wesley, Knox, Pink, Ellen White, Charles Russell, etc. They are disciples of men.

They never recognize this because they believe that God gave these teachers or prophets for them to follow. I am not discounting the gifting of teachers, but several hold these teachers above what would be considered biblical. They do not point to Scripture except through men like Pink. In the end, they have chosen a person or group of people under which they bow as vicars of God’s “truth” here on earth.

This is a travesty when it comes to discernment and biblical studies. People choose a theology that they like and read commentaries of these men. They interpret Scripture through these theologies and never even come close to approaching an understanding of the gospel through which they were (if they are) saved.

We start with Christ and God’s Word. We cannot start with theology and philosophy. When we choose our theology we risk worshipping a god of our own making. That is what these types of people need to realize. They are relying on their own understanding, their own theories, and their selves.

Another interesting not is that these typically revise history. To them, the Early Church Fathers held their view. I’ve actually seen Calvinists argue that the Early Church Fathers were Calvinists who taught Penal Substitution Theory….and before you ask, I am not joking. I have not seen the notion from anyone here but it is out there.

There is a sense of willful ignorance and subjective truth in the hearts of some that I do not know can be overcome via conversation. I have come to realize that the best way to address these types of people is not to address them at all. Just stand for biblical teachings and let others decide. God may or may not open their eyes to their folly.

 

[John Caldwell]

Remember, the ten commands written on tablets was given to the Jews. If what GH is saying is true, and we are not under those commands, then he can worship other gods and not be called an idolater. He can murder someone and not be a murderer. He could steal and not be considered a thief.

There was no mentioning of murdering someone was a sin when Cain murdered Abel, yet God called him out for it. The Law predates Israel, by what(????) 2,000 years at least.

The Law does not predate Israel.
Romans 5:13-14...for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

We are not under the Law.

Colossians 2:13-14
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

You are confusing the Law (or at least part of the Law), which is prescriptive with obedience "in Christ" which is descriptive ("if you love me you will kerp my commandments").

 

[farouk]

The Law does not predate Israel.
Romans 5:13-14...for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

We are not under the Law.

Colossians 2:13-14
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

You are confusing the Law (or at least part of the Law), which is prescriptive with obedience "in Christ" which is descriptive ("if you love me you will kerp my commandments").

The law, given to Moses, was after the promise to Abraham.

 

[Grailhunter]

The law, given to Moses, was after the promise to Abraham.

No Old Testament law in the New Covenant. No Old Testament law pertains to Christians! If you love the Law, go be a Jew, you will then have 613 laws to content with. Maybe then you will know why Christ lifted the burden of the Law from us. Paul put it simply, several times, we are not under the law...any Old Testament Law.

 

[John Caldwell]

The law, given to Moses, was after the promise to Abraham.

The "promise" goes back to Abraham, not Moses. The Law served to show sin, to be a testimony to the salvation that was to come. It applied to Israel and only for a specific time and purpose.

Perhaps @SovereignGrace 's post would have been correct had he spoke of God's law (the universal moral aspects of the Law and the law written in the hearts of those not under the Law). The Law refers to the Mosaic Law.

 

[farouk]

The "promise" goes back to Abraham, not Moses. The Law served to show sin, to be a testimony to the salvation that was to come. It applied to Israel and only for a specific time and purpose.

Perhaps @SovereignGrace 's post would have been correct had he spoke of God's law (the universal moral aspects of the Law and the law written in the hearts of those not under the Law). The Law refers to the Mosaic Law.

Good to remember that 'by faith' in Hebrews 11 refers back further than the law, right?

 

[John Caldwell]

Good to remember that 'by faith' in Hebrews 11 refers back further than the law, right?

"Children of Abraham" are the children of the Promise. This is an important distinction (the Law was given to a specific people at a specific time - Moses explained this when he gave the Law to Israel and Paul explains this when he speaks of people who were without the Law from Adam to Moses. Sin existed, but this sin was not a transgression of the Law.

I have no idea why some, often associated with Calvinism, seek to turn back to the Law. I suspect it has to do with a misunderstanding of what it means that Jesus is God's "Righteous One". It would be an interesting topic.

 

[farouk]

"Children of Abraham" are the children of the Promise. This is an important distinction (the Law was given to a specific people at a specific time - Moses explained this when he gave the Law to Israel and Paul explains this when he speaks of people who were without the Law from Adam to Moses. Sin existed, but this sin was not a transgression of the Law.

I have no idea why some, often associated with Calvinism, seek to turn back to the Law. I suspect it has to do with a misunderstanding of what it means that Jesus is God's "Righteous One". It would be an interesting topic.

I think that Calvinists are sometimes so influenced to varying degrees by traditions of extra-Biblical logic, and Medieval scholasticism, that the Renaissance-Reformation practice of appeals to historical-grammatical interpretation via word studies - words and their meanings in their context - that the weight and overtones of legal language continue to bear heavily upon their utterances.

 

[John Caldwell]

I think that Calvinists are sometimes so influenced to varying degrees by traditions of extra-Biblical logic, and Medieval scholasticism, that the Renaissance-Reformation practice of appeals to historical-grammatical interpretation via word studies - words and their meanings in their context - that the weight and overtones of legal language continue to bear heavily upon their utterances.

Very true. This is always an issue when theology is built on more theology rather than God's Word.

Too often I run into Calvinists who can't grasp theological development. They do not understand how things like Penal Substitution Theory developed, or Limited Atonement. Some have even claimed the Early Church Fathers taught Calvinism. It gets very silly and sad at times.

 

[Mjh29]

You've begun a new habit...
post some cute cartoons and then run.

Could you please reconcile the two following
verses for us all?
Thanks.

John 6:44
44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;


John 14:6
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.[/QUOTE]

1.) Anyone who is trying to prove a point by making the Scriptures contradict one another does not have the Truth of God in them
2.) Thanks, I do try. It's either cute or vicious savage, apparently neither one is acceptable.
3.) Sure! Theses verses are clearly speaking that it takes a work of God [Both Christ and the Father are equally God] before a man can come to repentance. There is nothing inside of man that will respond to the call of the Gospel unless God [who, again, both Christ and the Father are equally God] places this will inside of him.

 

[GodsGrace]

You've begun a new habit...
post some cute cartoons and then run.

Could you please reconcile the two following
verses for us all?
Thanks.

John 6:44
44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;


John 14:6
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

1.) Anyone who is trying to prove a point by making the Scriptures contradict one another does not have the Truth of God in them
2.) Thanks, I do try. It's either cute or vicious savage, apparently neither one is acceptable.
3.) Sure! Theses verses are clearly speaking that it takes a work of God [Both Christ and the Father are equally God] before a man can come to repentance. There is nothing inside of man that will respond to the call of the Gospel unless God [who, again, both Christ and the Father are equally God] places this will inside of him.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm.

I think you need some help with exegesis.
I know that the N.T. is difficult when one twists what it says and then tries to make some sense of it.

If it takes an act of God to come to repentance...
why did the jailer say:
BELIEVE AND YOU WILL BE SAVED

According to you he should have said
BE SAVED AND THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE.


If GOD CHOOSES US
why did Jesus tell us NOT TO LOOK BACK IF we wish to follow Him.
Why did He say that we should COUNT THE COST?

What's the use of counting the cost if God chooses us?
Common sense would suffice...but you have learned to follow MEN
instead of listening to Jesus and following what Jesus taught.
NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.

Does that sound to you like JESUS PICKED YOU?
IF you go through JESUS...you will get to the Father.

And the Father DRAWS everyone to His son.
As He has from the beginning of the creation.
Romans 1:19-20 should suffice to convince anyone with common sense.

Luke 14:28-31
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
31“Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?