You have not given me a serious reason that for God to have His elect to suffer on the earth.
Read Philippians 1:29. Suffering is just as much a gift of God as believing is.
Why create such a world in the first place? Why not keep the sheep in Heaven? Why let them wander off and get lost in the world?
You need to ask Him that. He decreed all that comes to pass. Not one thing happens outside His sovereign rule.
Suffering for what reason?
If I had children and sent them out of my house into a war zone, knowing they would meet terrible fates when I could keep them safe at home, wouldn't you say I was cruel?
God gets glory even when His ppl die for Him. The Christ even told His disciples what would come of them. If they suffered persecution and tucked tail and ran and renounced Him, what glory does He get? All we do is to give Him glory. Even in death, we are to glorify Him.
No need to get your feathers ruffled. I am trying to understand you. I can only go by what you write; and you wrote:
Remember, the non-elect will never be saved. That is why they are called that, the non-elect. God justly left them in their fallen state.
I paraphrased that:
My feathers weren’t ruffled. You falsely accused me of believing that which I don’t. That’s misrepresenting me.
Does anyone deserve salvation? No. That’s why it’s called grace, which is unmerited favor. If there is something that attracts God to them, then that is not grace. That’s why election is unconditional as well. His choosing of His elect was not based of what they would do or who they are.
You are also saying sinners don't stand a chance even if they repent. I can't believe that.
I'm still struggling with your statement that "the non-elect will never be saved." If I misunderstood you, please explain rather than get hot under the collar and say I'm falsely accusing you.
Man, in his fallen state, will never choose God. There are none that seek Him[Romans 3:11]. Read Romans 8:5-9. Man is his fallen state hates God, is at enmity with God, will not submit to Him. They are not able to repent because of their hatred of Him.
So what makes you think the "non-elect" can never repent? If God is not willing that any should perish, why would He discriminate against certain people?
You are misrepresenting 2 Peter 3:9. This is addressing His chosen ppl, the elect, not all men of all time.
“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14] Same expression used here as in 2 Peter 3:9. He is not willing any of His sheep perish.
My own belief is that God knows when sinners have suffered enough from their sinning and are tired of it. They are ripe for something different. They are like the prodigal son wallowing with the pigs. It's time to do something different since the path of sin led to such a dire situation. They are ready to repent, and then God calls them to repent.
Yet, none seek Him. How can they change when they won’t seek Him?
“I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’ To a nation which did not call on My name.[Isaiah 65:1] How can ppl find Him when they did not seek Him?
So where is the problem? Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. Those who ready to repent did. Those who still wanted to keep on sinning didn't. Where does the idea of the "non-elect" enter the picture?
There’s no problem from my side of this debate. I showed you four places where it unequivocally shows God is the One who grants repentance. Yet, He has granted this to everyone without exception, seeing many die lost.
