Biblical Mary

[theefaith]

I would need something more specific to accurately answer.

Jesus is the pillar andground of teh truth and then the teachings of the apostles. The rule of faith depends on what you mean by rule. I do not wish ot misunderstand you.

that’s not what the Bible says

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

what is the basis for our faith?
Did Christ give a rule of faith?
Does the rule of faith universally applicable?

 

[theefaith]

No, I'm not taking Jerome's word for Helvidius' so called heresies. Helvidius rebuked Jerome on several occasions for using corrupt manuscripts in his vulgate translation, Jerome was a known ego driven mean and abusive person who threw down on anyone be disagreed with using invective and a caustic tongue in so doing, in other words, his character was majorly flawed.
I asked for proof from Helvidius own writings. Not those of his enemies.

why are you attacking Christ

Saint Jerome was a bishop and father of the church

to attack him or the church or the teaching of these apostles is to attack Christ who sent them

1 Thessalonians 2:23 ---> And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 ---> So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letterfrom us.

Luke 10:16 ---> Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

Hebrews 13:7 ---> Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you...

 

[Brakelite]

don’t hold back man

what you’re opinion of Saint John Chrysostom on so called anti-semitism?

google I guess but all I found was the church fathers refuting him

Not something I'm familiar with.

how about scripture

key word is disciple

Jesus is not speaking to John according to scripture but to the disciple standing there who represents all disciples

Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

why was she blessed?

was she blessed before consenting to our salvation?

neither of the above two comments of yours are worth responding to.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

that’s not what the Bible says

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

what is the basis for our faith?
Did Christ give a rule of faith?
Does the rule of faith universally applicable?

1. The words of Jesus is the basis of our faith. then the inspired NT writings god handed to the Apostles
2. Rule: Love god above all, then you r neighbor as yourself.
3. Don't know for sure whjat you mean by universally applicable. Only those who are born again can fulfill the rule of faith.

You also need to remember that teh church is not an organization, but a living organism. It is to th epeople, through Scripture that the pillar and ground of truth exists. Not through some hierarchy of clergy.

 

[Marymog]

False doctrine is anything that goes against the clear teaching of Scripture. Am I no longer ensnared by nearly all of the false Catholic doctrine I believed in as a youth. do I have still false doctrine? Sure! I am still human and strill imperfect so I am convinced that I believe in dopctrines that are wrong (fasle) I am always willing to change if one can present a much stronger argument from Scripture than I hold in a n area. that is SCripture and not assumptions, drawing conclusions from assumptions, etc.

Well I wished I didn't have to have the surgery. but it turned into a wonderful oportunity to serve the Lord. I shared the gospel with 6 people, prayed with a PCA whowas really down, met some wonderful believers that we were able to fellowshiop, and had one nurse who is a sister spend hours asking me questions and sitting and learning. If it took replacing a heart valve to see those folks blessed, then I guess that was a small, but painful price to pay to see Jesus glorified.

Hi Ronald,

It is always nice to share the Truth of the Gospel to others. I hope your time with those 6 was fruitful to all of you. I hope your recovery has been problem free also.

Your "false doctrine" diatribe has me confused.

You say that you are no longer ensnared by all the false doctrines of the Catholic Church. But you then clarify that you probably still believe in false doctrines however, you are willing to change your mind "if one can present a much stronger argument from Scripture". Can you see where that is confusing? It sounds as if YOU have figured out as an adult that The Church taught you false doctrines when you were a younger man and now that you have read Scripture as an adult YOU figured out that The Church was lying to you (a false teacher) and YOU decided what the Truth was and if anyone can come up with a stronger argument or better interpretation of Scripture than YOU have come up with you will change your mind.

In summary: The Catholic Church teaches (some) false doctrine.
You know this because as an adult you read the bible and you figured out what is false and what is true doctrine.
You are humble enough to admit that some of your true doctrines may be false doctrines.
You are honest enough to admit/change your false doctrines that you hold when you decide that someone else has a stronger argument than you.

Is that a fair summary?

Mary

 

[theefaith]

Hi Ronald,

It is always nice to share the Truth of the Gospel to others. I hope your time with those 6 was fruitful to all of you. I hope your recovery has been problem free also.

Your "false doctrine" diatribe has me confused.

You say that you are no longer ensnared by all the false doctrines of the Catholic Church. But you then clarify that you probably still believe in false doctrines however, you are willing to change your mind "if one can present a much stronger argument from Scripture". Can you see where that is confusing? It sounds as if YOU have figured out as an adult that The Church taught you false doctrines when you were a younger man and now that you have read Scripture as an adult YOU figured out that The Church was lying to you (a false teacher) and YOU decided what the Truth was and if anyone can come up with a stronger argument or better interpretation of Scripture than YOU have come up with you will change your mind.

In summary: The Catholic Church teaches (some) false doctrine.
You know this because as an adult you read the bible and you figured out what is false and what is true doctrine.
You are humble enough to admit that some of your true doctrines may be false doctrines.
You are honest enough to admit/change your false doctrines that you hold when you decide that someone else has a stronger argument than you.

Is that a fair summary?

Mary

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive

the Christian rule of faith is the teaching authority of the apostles

 

[theefaith]

Sorry found in acts 2:42 Jude 1:3

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi Ronald,

It is always nice to share the Truth of the Gospel to others. I hope your time with those 6 was fruitful to all of you. I hope your recovery has been problem free also.

Your "false doctrine" diatribe has me confused.

You say that you are no longer ensnared by all the false doctrines of the Catholic Church. But you then clarify that you probably still believe in false doctrines however, you are willing to change your mind "if one can present a much stronger argument from Scripture". Can you see where that is confusing? It sounds as if YOU have figured out as an adult that The Church taught you false doctrines when you were a younger man and now that you have read Scripture as an adult YOU figured out that The Church was lying to you (a false teacher) and YOU decided what the Truth was and if anyone can come up with a stronger argument or better interpretation of Scripture than YOU have come up with you will change your mind.

In summary: The Catholic Church teaches (some) false doctrine.
You know this because as an adult you read the bible and you figured out what is false and what is true doctrine.
You are humble enough to admit that some of your true doctrines may be false doctrines.
You are honest enough to admit/change your false doctrines that you hold when you decide that someone else has a stronger argument than you.

Is that a fair summary?

Mary

A very very fair summary.

I don't know why you find the fact I am still learning after 47 years confusing?

Everything I believe, I believe because I am convinced that is what Scripture teaches. Can I be wrong in areas? Of course! No one will be doctrinally perfect until we get home. I enjoy debating and discussing. Not onjly can I correct others, but also I can be corrected as well. I may have something nearly down perfect and someone will bring a facet I have not seen yet and make a change.


after 47 years of walking with the Lord, and studying His Word diligently most all changes now, are minor tweaks for things I had yet to consider. Having said that, I am still open to major doctrinal changes, if one can present a much stronger biblical argument than I holdf.

 

[Marymog]

A very very fair summary.

I don't know why you find the fact I am still learning after 47 years confusing?

Everything I believe, I believe because I am convinced that is what Scripture teaches. Can I be wrong in areas? Of course! No one will be doctrinally perfect until we get home. I enjoy debating and discussing. Not onjly can I correct others, but also I can be corrected as well. I may have something nearly down perfect and someone will bring a facet I have not seen yet and make a change.


after 47 years of walking with the Lord, and studying His Word diligently most all changes now, are minor tweaks for things I had yet to consider. Having said that, I am still open to major doctrinal changes, if one can present a much stronger biblical argument than I holdf.

Hi Ronald,

What is their to learn? Christianity has been around for 2,000 years. Do you think you are going to come up with an original thought (interpretation of Scripture) that no one else has over the last 2,000 years? If you do come up with a original thought that is sound doctrine why would God reveal it to you and no one else after 2,000 years?

Just follow Scripture. Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). Not you. Not me. The Church is. The leaders of The Church decide who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector (Matthew 18:17). Not you. Not me. The Church. The men of The Church were appointed by the Holy Spirit to be in charge of your soul and are worthy of double honor and we are to obey what they say (Acts 20:28, Hebrew 13:17). It's not that difficult Ronald. You are not in charge. You are not the ONE who has the authority to correct others. The Church is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi Ronald,

What is their to learn? Christianity has been around for 2,000 years. Do you think you are going to come up with an original thought (interpretation of Scripture) that no one else has over the last 2,000 years? If you do come up with a original thought that is sound doctrine why would God reveal it to you and no one else after 2,000 years?

Just follow Scripture. Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). Not you. Not me. The Church is. The leaders of The Church decide who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector (Matthew 18:17). Not you. Not me. The Church. The men of The Church were appointed by the Holy Spirit to be in charge of your soul and are worthy of double honor and we are to obey what they say (Acts 20:28, Hebrew 13:17). It's not that difficult Ronald. You are not in charge. You are not the ONE who has the authority to correct others. The Church is.

Chrisatianity has been around 2,000 years but I have not! I have been walking with the Lord for only 47 years! The more I learn, the more I realize there is much more to learn!

So you do not conjsider yourself part of the church? I certainly do. I may not have that authority as an elder, but I am most certainly a member in particular of the church.

So if you are not in charge of correcting others, why are you bothering to correct me? You don't have that authority according to your own wordsa!!!!

and I obey what the elders of a church say as long as it agrees with Scripture. No man is above the word of God or is able to add to or subtract form or rededfine the Scriptures! If theydo, we are to resist and disobey them ferociously.

 

[Marymog]

Chrisatianity has been around 2,000 years but I have not! I have been walking with the Lord for only 47 years! The more I learn, the more I realize there is much more to learn!

So you do not conjsider yourself part of the church? I certainly do. I may not have that authority as an elder, but I am most certainly a member in particular of the church.

So if you are not in charge of correcting others, why are you bothering to correct me? You don't have that authority according to your own wordsa!!!!

and I obey what the elders of a church say as long as it agrees with Scripture. No man is above the word of God or is able to add to or subtract form or rededfine the Scriptures! If theydo, we are to resist and disobey them ferociously.

Thanks Ronald,

You have been learning for 47 years but The Church has been teaching for 2,000 years. The Church has it figured out. You should listen to it. Also, why not go to a person who has been learning for 65 years? After all, they would seem to know more truth than you based on your theory the older you get the more you learn about scripture.

I am part of The Church. I thought I made that clear.

I am only repeating what The Church, who according to Scripture has authority, has taught for 2,000 years. If you take it as correcting you then so be it.

Oh...I see. YOU decided if what the elders of your church are teaching “agree with Scripture”. Why don’t you just become an elder and lead everyone in your church?

Mary

 

[GtoR]

15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

The word of God as spoken to Eve's tempter, RSV Gen 3: 15; "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between 'YOUR SEED' and 'HER SEED; 'HE" shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thanks Ronald,

You have been learning for 47 years but The Church has been teaching for 2,000 years. The Church has it figured out. You should listen to it. Also, why not go to a person who has been learning for 65 years? After all, they would seem to know more truth than you based on your theory the older you get the more you learn about scripture.

I am part of The Church. I thought I made that clear.

I am only repeating what The Church, who according to Scripture has authority, has taught for 2,000 years. If you take it as correcting you then so be it.

Oh...I see. YOU decided if what the elders of your church are teaching “agree with Scripture”. Why don’t you just become an elder and lead everyone in your church?

Mary

Well it is what you mean by the church. If you are talking the roman Catholic church- it does not have it figured out in many many areas.

It is the bible that causes teh chruch to figure it out! Not what churches or individuals write and leave behind to tell future generations how they should think in an area. Every generation has to learn the truths brand new. YOu sound like a JW when they say that if a person never reads the bible but just Watchtower material they would be in the light in two years! That is just as false as reading Catholic Canon Law! Everything we learn must be filtered through the bible and not some denominational commentary.

I do not become an elder for I am not called to be an elder. I havew been called to teach SCripture and I have faithfully done that for over 35 yearts from small bible studies and family times all the way to bible college and radio and tv and national publications. And my teachings are only as good as they remain faithful to Gods word.

 

[GtoR]

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His Mary, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

He was speaking specifically to his nephew John, the son of his sister Salome, John 19: 27; From that time John (The Beloved disciple) took her (Mary the wife of Cleophas) to live in his home.

Have you asked yourself why Jesus would entrust his mother into the care of John, when she has a husband, four strapping boys (Joseph, James, Simeon and Jude) plus daughters to care for her?

Jesus taught that if a person remarried while their original spouse was still alive, they were committing adultery.

Who was the woman, who the pretentious pious Jewish priests, (John 8: 6.) accused as being an adulterous, in their effort to trap Jesus according to his own teachings and accuse him to the people?

 

[theefaith]

The word of God as spoken to Eve's tempter, RSV Gen 3: 15; "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between 'YOUR SEED' and 'HER SEED; 'HE" shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel

so who is the woman?

 

[theefaith]

He was speaking specifically to his nephew John, the son of his sister Salome, John 19: 27; From that time John (The Beloved disciple) took her (Mary the wife of Cleophas) to live in his home.

Have you asked yourself why Jesus would entrust his mother into the care of John, when she has a husband, four strapping boys (Joseph, James, Simeon and Jude) plus daughters to care for her?

Jesus taught that if a person remarried while their original spouse was still alive, they were committing adultery.

Who was the woman, who the pretentious pious Jewish priests, (John 8: 6.) accused as being an adulterous, in their effort to trap Jesus according to his own teachings and accuse him to the people?

Jesus was speaking to his mother
Joseph already died
Mary only has one biological child and of the HS that Jesus
Lk 1:34

 

[theefaith]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!



Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

 

[theefaith]

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

 

[Marymog]

Well it is what you mean by the church. If you are talking the roman Catholic church- it does not have it figured out in many many areas.

Oh, I see. YOU, a man, have figured out but the men of The Catholic Church don't? How does that work?

 

[amigo de christo]

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive

the Christian rule of faith is the teaching authority of the apostles

The real problem with Bible alone, is that it gets in the way of teachings and traditions of men apart from God.

There are people who really, really like lies over truth, especially when they really really study them very very carefully.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Who would want to forbid men to marry, or to abstain from certain meats?

Those who reject the Bible is the sole source for traditions and doctrine and commandment of God.

Why go through all the psycho-babble of pretended honor toward Scripture, in order to reject Scripture? Just be open and honest about it, and say you don't want to be limited by Scripture, because you really like a bunch of other stuff outside Scripture.