Biblical Salvation

[Amazed@grace]

Only believers have their names written in the Book of Life.

Unbelievers are "condemned already" (John 3:18).

Only believers have their names written in the Book of Life.

Unbelievers are "condemned already" (John 3:18).

Thank you for that. "Unbelievers are condemned already."
That would mean believers are saved already because God wrote the names in the book of life before the world. giving blessings to believers?
"Any man" taking away from the prophecies in Revelation will lose their allotment in the KoH. Doesn't say, " will lose their salvation."

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you for that. "Unbelievers are condemned already."
That would mean believers are saved already because God wrote the names in the book of life before the world. giving blessings to believers?

That doesn't necessarily follow.

Unbelievers are already condemned; until they become believers at which time it becomes true of them that they are no longer condemned.

 

[Tong2020]

That doesn't necessarily follow.

Unbelievers are already condemned; until they become believers at which time it becomes true of them that they are no longer condemned.

And? I’m guessing here...the condemned until they become believers that they are no longer condemned...until those who become believers become unbelievers that they are condemned again...until they become believers again that they are not condemned again....until they become unbelievers again that they are condemned again....and the cycle goes on. Well,....what is the bottom line?

Tong
R2608

 

[Amazed@grace]

It is scriptures that speaks of a blotting out of names from the book of life. I simply believe that.

The thing is, in my view, life is more than what we make it to be, according to our knowledge and thinking. For me, it is so much more. Such that the book of life is not only about life after death, but is also about life on earth, that is physical life and spiritual life, wherein the names of them who partakes of it where written.

What is clear is that, scriptures speaks of names written in the book of life, and blotting out of names as well. And that being written is clearly a blessing while being blotted out is not.

Tong
R2571

Of course you are entitledt to your opinion and beliefs.
For me the scriptures don't say the believer will be blotted out. Blotting out what God in his foreknowledge knew before the world repeals God's Omniscient qualities. Which then counters his foreknowledge, predestination of all things, and all those scriptures that speak of and to his predetermining all according to his will.
If that were the case, salvation is not the blessing of eternal life. Because blotting out revokes "eternal".
If we can't be saved by our good deeds we cannot be stripped of our salvation by our bad ones. Else our sealing and the promise are lies. And I will not believe that.

 

[amigo de christo]

The faith that comes from God is one that abides and continues. It comes with is the power from whom it comes from. But there is faith that comes from man. In contrast to faith that comes from God, faith that comes from man have no power that comes from God. It is one that has no power, even power to abide and continue.

What faith do we have? Is it that which comes from God or only that comes from ourselves?

Tong
R2601

It comes from the glorious LORD . He alone drew me to Christ . Let the KING be praised .

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is scriptures that speaks of a blotting out of names from the book of life. I simply believe that.

The thing is, in my view, life is more than what we make it to be, according to our knowledge and thinking. For me, it is so much more. Such that the book of life is not only about life after death, but is also about life on earth, that is physical life and spiritual life, wherein the names of them who partakes of it where written.

What is clear is that, scriptures speaks of names written in the book of life, and blotting out of names as well. And that being written is clearly a blessing while being blotted out is not.

Of course you are entitledt to your opinion and beliefs.
For me the scriptures don't say the believer will be blotted out. Blotting out what God in his foreknowledge knew before the world repeals God's Omniscient qualities. Which then counters his foreknowledge, predestination of all things, and all those scriptures that speak of and to his predetermining all according to his will.
If that were the case, salvation is not the blessing of eternal life. Because blotting out revokes "eternal".
If we can't be saved by our good deeds we cannot be stripped of our salvation by our bad ones. Else our sealing and the promise are lies. And I will not believe that.

Never said that the genuine believer will be blotted out. I believe like you do that the genuine believer will not be blotted out.

Tong
R2610

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The faith that comes from God is one that abides and continues. It comes with is the power from whom it comes from. But there is faith that comes from man. In contrast to faith that comes from God, faith that comes from man have no power that comes from God. It is one that has no power, even power to abide and continue.

What faith do we have? Is it that which comes from God or only that comes from ourselves?

It comes from the glorious LORD . He alone drew me to Christ . Let the KING be praised .

Let God be praised indeed then!

And having faith that comes from God abides, continues, endures. We sure can rest in the LORD.

Tong
R2611

 

[Amazed@grace]

Never said that the genuine believer will be blotted out. I believe like you do that the genuine believer will not be blotted out.

Tong
R2610

OK, now I'm confused. You think God didn't know the difference when writing the names?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Never said that the genuine believer will be blotted out. I believe like you do that the genuine believer will not be blotted out.

OK, now I'm confused. You think God didn't know the difference when writing the names?

What difference?

Tong
R2612

 

[Enoch111]

POINT them TO JESUS , not to a lie .

Are you claiming that I am pointing people to a lie? That is not only false but nonsensical. If you were truly pointing them to Jesus, you would not be saying that no one is saved until the very end.

 

[justbyfaith]

And? I’m guessing here...the condemned until they become believers that they are no longer condemned...until those who become believers become unbelievers that they are condemned again...until they become believers again that they are not condemned again....until they become unbelievers again that they are condemned again....and the cycle goes on. Well,....what is the bottom line?

Tong
R2608

See Ezekiel 33:11-20.

It would be the state of your heart when you pass into the next life, to go on to be with the Lord...yoy want to be certain that you don't "die in your sins" (John 8:24).

 

[justbyfaith]

If we can't be saved by our good deeds we cannot be stripped of our salvation by our bad ones.

That does not necessarily follow.

We are saved by grace which institutes a change in our hearts so that we become new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

If we are committing bad deeds, then we ought to question as to whether we are genuinely new creatures in Christ!

2Co 5:10, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And? I’m guessing here...the condemned until they become believers that they are no longer condemned...until those who become believers become unbelievers that they are condemned again...until they become believers again that they are not condemned again....until they become unbelievers again that they are condemned again....and the cycle goes on. Well,....what is the bottom line?

See Ezekiel 33:11-20.

It would be the state of your heart when you pass into the next life, to go on to be with the Lord...yoy want to be certain that you don't "die in your sins" (John 8:24).

It remains, in your view, the condemned until they become believers that they are no longer condemned...until those who become believers become unbelievers that they are condemned again...until they become believers again that they are not condemned again....until they become unbelievers again that they are condemned again....and the cycle goes on.

The bottom line is , where are you in that cycle when you finally breath your last?

Tong
R2615

 

[justbyfaith]

It remains, in your view, the condemned until they become believers that they are no longer condemned...until those who become believers become unbelievers that they are condemned again...until they become believers again that they are not condemned again....until they become unbelievers again that they are condemned again....and the cycle goes on.

The bottom line is , where are you in that cycle when you finally breath your last?

Tong
R2615

Time will tell...

However, I believe that I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit; and therefore I will be counted with the righteous on that day.

 

[amigo de christo]

Are you claiming that I am pointing people to a lie? That is not only false but nonsensical. If you were truly pointing them to Jesus, you would not be saying that no one is saved until the very end.

Let us point to JESUS and remain faithful to the end . Let none be moved away into
this unity led all inclusive false gospel . Speaking of which even many evangelicals are becoming infected with it .
It states God is fine with all religions and that so long as one has love it does not matter if they muslim , buddist or whateverist
they saved and know God . its a lie . And due to Rome leads in it , Why on earth are so many
going back into unity with her . Its all about a one world we are one mindset that both secular realms and all religoins
are fast embracing . Let us hold firm to the original gospel . And if any brings another gospel , Eat not with such a one .
Tell them and show them their error and point them to Christ . We cannot be moved away unto this false gospel
by means of a false love and false unity . You do realize that over fifty percent of even evangelicals now think GOD is fine with all other religoins
as well . Its moving and its a lie from hades birthed by A harlot .

 

[Tong2020]

Time will tell...

However, I believe that I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit; and therefore I will be counted with the righteous on that day.

But with your position, your salvation ultimately depends on you.

With your position, that while you say you believe you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, you can still become an unbeliever, but can still later become a believer again, and still can become an unbeliever, and still become a believer. It seems that the seal isn’t functioning as it should.

Tong
R2628

 

[Michiah-Imla]

But with your position, your salvation ultimately depends on you.

That is the position that scriptures teach:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31)

Colossians 1:21-23
[21] And you... hath he reconciled [22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel

 

[justbyfaith]

But with your position, your salvation ultimately depends on you.

With your position, that while you say you believe you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, you can still become an unbeliever, but can still later become a believer again, and still can become an unbeliever, and still become a believer. It seems that the seal isn’t functioning as it should.

Tong
R2628

This is one of those situations in scripture where there are two sides to the same coin and one side of the coin may not be easily reconciled with the other.

But we know that from the Lord's perspective, the seemingly paradoxical things come together in all reality, and form a concrete doctrine.

I don't know that I have studied the apparent contradiction well enough to come to a conclusion as to what the reconciliation is.

But I have faith that there is a reconciliation.

Because it is true that both:

1) we who believe in Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5); and,

2) we can go in and out of abiding (Ezekiel 33:11-20, 1 John 3:6).

Perhaps the reconciliation is inherent in that those who do the will of God abide for ever (1 John 2:17); that theses are the ones who are sealed by the Holy Spirit; who abide in Him ("sin not", 1 John 3:6) for ever more (1 John 2:17).

 

[Amazed@grace]

That does not necessarily follow.

We are saved by grace which institutes a change in our hearts so that we become new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

If we are committing bad deeds, then we ought to question as to whether we are genuinely new creatures in Christ!

2Co 5:10, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

I agree that serious introspection would be necessary for someone making a point to sin habitually. Because we're told those who are in Jesus don't sin.

However, while we who are in Jesus are judged at the white throne, it doesn't say we shall lose our salvation there based on the judgment.
We have nothing to do with our being saved. It is by God's grace through faith.( No one comes to the father but through me.)

 

[justbyfaith]

However, while we who are in Jesus are judged at the white throne, it doesn't say we shall lose our salvation there based on the judgment.

If God decides that the person's works were the works of an unregenerated person, then their names may not be written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

For those whose names are written therein, their works will be revealed by fire as gold, sliver, precious gems, wood, hay, stubble; and if any man's work endures through the fire, they shall receive a reward.