I think it inconsistent to believe in God's sovereignty, predetermination , predestination, of all things, and his eternal knowledge, to then overwrite that in saying some things are not predestined, predetermined, or foreordained. Christ was foreordained. The savior. Why? Because sin pre-existed the world. And the book of eternal life bearing within the names of all saved from sin was written by God before the world was founded,created. No part of God's word shall be subject to personal interpretation? Does God Predestine Sin?
Biblical Salvation
- Thread starter ByGraceThroughFaith
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It’s simple for me. I believe and only believe what scriptures says. If it says God had chosen a people and predestined them for salvation, I believe that. And scriptures do say that. If scriptures says God had created and predestined people to go to hell, I would believe that. But I don’t find scriptures saying that. Then, I don’t believe such.
Tong
R2556
It's there. I didn't see it in the beginning. Then I realized I had to not only accept what is written, but also what is stated by what is imparted in the full narrative. God wrote the names of all whom HE would save before there was anything in this world, not yet created, for those not yet created much less having names, to be saved from. Sin existed before this world, or people. God, eternally knowledgeable, created Eden with a forbidden tree at its center. And not by the woman who ate of it first, but by the man who did, sin that.already existed and damns entered the world. And now the book of life's names destiny would be fulfilled. "And all whose names were not written in the book of life God had filled with names before the creation of the world were.thrown into the lake of fire." Do you think those people's namesmay exist in one of those other books laid before the great white throne? Those whose names were not written means God, eternally knowing, would know those too. How else to differentiate amid all the dead being judged?
Mounce Greek Interlinear version:Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament.
And
kai
anyone
ei tis
whose name
was
not
ou
found
heuriskō
written
graphō
in
en
the
ho
Book
biblos
of
ho
Life
zōē
was
thrown
ballō
into
eis
the
ho
lake
limnē
of
ho
fire
pyr. That is what I believe.
I believe that prographo would be a synonym of proroizo; just as in English, the word righteous might be a synonym of the word just.
In other words, you may have two different Greek words that mean exactly the same thing; they don't have to mean something different.
Actually, I do.
I have mentioned that I believe that time travel will be invented at some point in history and that through that technology things can be changed.
God can also intervene in time and change things as He sees fit; so that in the truest timeline, His perfect will might be accomplished.
I’ve shown you. It’s up to you what you make it to mean.
If you do, then that would mean that what God had foreknowledge of is not the absolute in your belief, since you believe that what He have seen and known beforehand, He could still change. Also, that would mean that God can work out to change the hearts of those He have seen not believing in Him, into believing in Him, right? So, as would be apparent then, He did not do that, even while He can. The question then that comes to such belief is, why?
Now, do you believe God have knowledge of the absolute future, the future that is what will absolutely happen?
Tong
R2558
If someone goes back in time and preaches the gospel to someone who in their timeline was not saved; the person that they preach to might even be saved through their preaching.
They are not saved in one timeline but are saved in another.
But all who are saved will go to one heaven.
And all who are not saved will go to one hell.
It lends to the idea that someone might go to heaven and hell in all of their eternity.
That blows my mind.
LOL... and there you have it.... the look of absolute horror and disbelief... HAHA
It was interesting...but it produced that same horror...as the character in the movie kept going back in time and changing his past.
At one point one of his friends was saved because of the change that was wrought...but then he went and changed the past again.
I hated the outcome of the movie because of that.
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
God predestined those he foreknew would love him and turn to him for salvation. God foreknew who would reject him and be condemned to the lake of fire. But he did not predestined them to the lake. He let them do that to themselves.
God foreordained (according to foreknowledge) unto condemnation those who would preach grace as a license for immorality (Jude 1:3-4, NIV).
Exodus 32:33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Tong
R2565
Rev 3:15 is a speech model known as a litotes. Stating a positive as a negative to emphasize the positive. Rev 3:15 Reiterates our name shall not be blotted out.
Exodus, if we recall there being books, plural, at the white throne of judgement, may help to see that the book of life isn't what is named in Verse 33. Ephesians 1:4, he chose us in him before the world. How would eternally knowing God know that, write our names in the book of the living only to erase them later? That wouldn't then be a book of life, would it? If names can be removed and thus meet the fate of the damned. And remember Revelation 17:8 vs. Luke 10:20
It is scriptures that speaks of a blotting out of names from the book of life. I simply believe that.
The thing is, in my view, life is more than what we make it to be, according to our knowledge and thinking. For me, it is so much more. Such that the book of life is not only about life after death, but is also about life on earth, that is physical life and spiritual life, wherein the names of them who partakes of it where written.
What is clear is that, scriptures speaks of names written in the book of life, and blotting out of names as well. And that being written is clearly a blessing while being blotted out is not.
Tong
R2571
While scriptures said that God predestined those He foreknew, it does not say anything about what you say there that he foreknew who would love Him and turn to Him for salvation.
Tong
R2572
