However, I think the scripture says the names of the regenerate person were written in the book by God before he created the world.
Biblical Salvation
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I understand Jesus in John 8:31 as telling me what it means to truly believe in Him. He said that to tell them what it means to be true disciples.
Also, my take of Col.1:23 is in the same spirit. I understand it not as a condition that is required of one, but what it means to be a true believer, a true disciple, a true Christian, a true child of God.
For I believe that the faith that comes from God is one that is not moved but one that moves, and does not fail, and that abides and continues and endures to the end. Those who received this faith from God, are they who have the power to remain and continue in Him and in His words, for faith that comes from God is with such great power. A power which Jesus described in this way, “if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.”
Tong
R2631
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hello Tong,
What you said here: "How can one call on the name of the Lord if he had not believed? How can one believe if he had not seen nor heard?"
Can be answered quite easily, IMHO here:
Romans 10:14-16
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? <---- Preachers have a tough job!
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But not all of them welcomed the good news... <---- The "Good News", that Christ gave us the best gift that could ever be given, eternal life with Him.
...For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
Romans 10:17
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
It's the only way
Hello Nancy!Hello Tong,
What you said here: "How can one call on the name of the Lord if he had not believed? How can one believe if he had not seen nor heard?"
Can be answered quite easily, IMHO here:
Romans 10:14-16
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? <---- Preachers have a tough job!
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But not all of them welcomed the good news... <---- The "Good News", that Christ gave us the best gift that could ever be given, eternal life with Him.
...For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
Romans 10:17
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
It's the only way
That’s exactly where my reasoning is coming from.
But my main point really there is that because the fallen natural mankind is in a state of death or is as dead, he first must be made alive to be able to see and hear, that he may hear the word of God, and having faith in God, he could call on the name of the LORD and be saved by God.
Tong
R2632
No; because those who don't believe are condemned already (John 3:18). How then is their name written in the Book of Life?
Truly, from the perspective of eternity, the Lord knows those who are His; who will ever receive Him.
But I would say that their names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life except as the result of the fact that they do receive Him; and that God knows the answer to this question from eternity past.
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
If “your take” were sound, that scripture would read like this:
Colossians 1:21,23
[21] And you... hath he reconciled [23] because ye will continue in the faith grounded and settled, and will not be moved away from the hope of the gospel
But in reality that scripture reads this way:
Colossians 1:21,23
[21] And you... hath he reconciled [23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel
You cannot continue in a thing you were never a part of. You take is gravely wrong.
I disagree.
Read carefully and take a close look at v.21, it says “hath he reconciled”. The reconciling is a done deed. So, v.23 isn’t a condition and could not be taken as a condition/requirement for the Christian to comply and do to be reconciled to God, something that is already done. For if v.23 is a condition that is required to be complied with and done before one is reconciled, and would only be complied at the end of one’s earthly life, what is said in v.21 “hath he reconciled” will be false.
So, I understand and take v.23 as not a condition that is required of the Christian to be reconciled to God.
Tong
R2641
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The word "if" is in fact used rather than "because".
Therefore I think that the point of @Michiah-Imla is better than the point of @Tong2020.
Therefore I think that the point of @Michiah-Imla is better than the point of @Tong2020.
Read carefully and take a close look at v.21, it says “hath he reconciled”. The reconciling is a done deed. So, v.23 isn’t a condition and could not be taken as a condition/requirement for the Christian to comply and do to be reconciled to God, something that is already done. For if v.23 is a condition that is required to be complied with and done before one is reconciled, and would only be complied at the end of one’s earthly life, what is said in v.21 “hath he reconciled” will be false.
Tong
R2643
It is a done deed from the perspective of eternity.
From time's perspective, it is conditional on the person continuing in the faith.
As I said read carefully and look closely. What does it say? “yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death“.
When is a person actually reconciled to God by Christ through death? Is it at the time of the person’s conversion or only at the end of one’s earthly life?
Tong
R2645
A person is sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion; which will guarantee that the person will continue in the faith.
Of course, some are not sealed because their faith is only nominal, shallow, or lukewarm; thus the word "if".
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
How can that be, since those who believe not are "condemned already" (John 3:18)?
It isn't. That's why it's called, the book of life, or as some say, the book of living.
True. I think that is why Jesus said, no one comes to him unless the father calls them. He knows our names already. He doesn't call those who are condemned already.
I disagree. I think that those who do not believe (are condemned already) can cross over into faith in Jesus Christ.
I believe that they are added to the book of life from the first moment of faith (John 5:24 (kjv)).
Is that in the verse?The names in the book of life were written before the foundation of the world.
Global.Bible
They pass from death unto life from the moment of first faith.
Do you presume to believe that their names were written in the Book of Life "before" that was established in time and eternity?
