Body of Christ never mentioned in Revelation, but The Bride is.

[bbyrd009]

Judah promised Tamar to his third son Shelah, but forgot all about it. When she realized she'd been duped, she tricked Judah into impregnating her. The result was the twins Perez and Zerah (Genesis 38:29-30)..."

why didnt Shelah die too? among other obv Qs
Meaning
Extracted, Prosperity
Request, Petition
Etymology

 

[amadeus]

I do appreciate the commentary. It’s interesting Jesus comes out of the tribe of Judah.

Consider that the first four sons of Jacob were by Leah, his first and least favorite wife. When Reuben disqualified himself by sleeping with one of Jacob's concubines, Jacob seemingly took advantage of the Reuben's loss to the swing the double portion normally due to the first born over to Joseph, the first son born to his favorite wife, Rachel... but actually his 5th son.

Leah's 2nd and 3rd sons, Simeon and Levi called "instruments of cruelty" by Jacob [Gen 49:5] also displeased their father when they tricked the and took revenge on the man [Gen 34:25] who raped their sister, Dinah, along with all of the men in his family. They were his 2nd and 3rd ones right behind Reuben with Judah, the 4th son, the next one in line,. But Jacob gave the double portion to Joseph, the 5th son, his favorite, by his favorite wife.

As we see, however, while Judah was perhaps the chief instigator in the sale of his little brother, Joseph, into slavery, Judah made an almost unbelievable turn around, [repentance] from his past deeds. During the famine he effectively put himself on the chopping block to save Benjamin, the remaining son of Jacob's favorite wife. Since the first three actual sons of Jacob by birth order had disqualified themselves, even though Joseph received the double portion, did not Judah ultimately receive the best part as the son of Israel/Jacob out of which came the Messiah, Jesus? Jacob tried to sidestep the first born in favor of the first son of Rachel, but God was still in control, wasn't He?

 

[Waiting on him]

why didnt Shelah die too? among other obv Qs
Meaning
Extracted, Prosperity
Request, Petition
Etymology

Here’s again something interesting to me pertaining to the redeeming, John says,

Matthew 3:9 KJV
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Unto Abraham.
https://tbibl.es/2lj

And women are saved in child bearing.

 

[Truther]

I find there is no reference to "The Bride Of Christ" anywhere in the bible.
Fourteen times, is the word, "bride," mentioned in the New Testament, only oonce in the Gospel of John, and then 4 more times in Rev. In John, the "bridegroom" is said to be Jesus Christ.
Revelation 21: "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." <---Is this to mean that the Jews are the "bride"? And, Christians will be the "guests" at the wedding supper of the Lamb? After all, the Jew's ARE the chosen of God...and I believe it is a Hebrew custom for the Father to choose the wife of their sons...not sure but, it's what I have heard said.
Any thoughts?

No, the city is presented to the saints as a bride is presented to her husband at a wedding...beautiful.

It is a beautiful city.

People go in and out of it in the passage.

Anyone, whether Jew or Gentile can walk in the New Jerusalem city as the bride of Christ.

 

[Helen]

not sure I understand Helen. This thread has confused me. a few questions. the whole pecking order entering in is alarming. Do you mean it enters into the New Heaven and New earth?

2 Timothy 2:19-22 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. [20] But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. [21] If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. [22] Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
^to me that says the wood and earth is that old man (that first born natural man) hay and stubble. but if purged with fire (buy of Me gold tried in the fire) and born again of Spirit “he shall be a vessel unto Honour, sanctified, ...prepared unto every good work.” Of the promise seed “having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his.”

does works of the flesh make it through the Fire? Do any of our own works make it through the fire? The wood, hay, stubble perishes. That the outward man perishes. Isaiah 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

I’ve understood it (not saying it is right) to say only that inward man born of God renewed daily, refined, remains. “Fruits of the Spirit”

....he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

If he throughly purges his floor then how does man bring in any pecking order or anything not attributed to Christ in Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

what is outside of the city when “he burns up the chaff with unquenchable fire,” (as the earth is His and the fullness thereof) and has put down all rule and power and authority, and all enemies under his feet? 1 Corinthians 15:24-26?

Im not really sure what you are saying about "pecking order" that sounds very negative to me.

In heaven there Is God Himself, there are archangels, there are angels, there are cherubim's, there are seraphim's...there is already levels of responsibilities in the heavenly realm.
Why would it be so strange to you in the New Kingdom?
God has always been a God of variety .
Are you saying - Every tree must be Oak,? and every flower must be a daisy?
And every bird must be raven?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Im not really sure what you are saying about "pecking order" that sounds very negative to me.

In heaven there Is God Himself, there are archangels, there are angels, there are cherubim's, there are seraphim's...there is already levels of responsibilities in the heavenly realm.
Why would it be so strange to you in the New Kingdom?
God has always been a God of variety .
Are you saying - Every tree must be Oak,? and every flower must be a daisy?
And every bird must be raven?

No. I’m speaking of an hierarchy of importance when within His body He instructs to give to those parts which lack the more so the whole has need of nothing. I’m speaking of claiming any part is more needful than the another. That is all.


Song of Songs 6:2 My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies.

Luke 12:25-27 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? [26] If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? [27] Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.(lillies)

 

[Helen]

fwiw i would find spiritual analogies for the literal sperm and the other elements in the story that would make the story relevant to irl and our lives today, and by "find" i dont mean "make up" but rather seek the relevant analogies that already exist, with an understanding of the meaning of the names involved, etc. I dont want to just blurt it out bc for me it resolved into a fairly mundane thing we do all the time, but it might resolve diff for you, but anyway
Er
Meaning
City, Aroused, Wild Ass
Etymology
From the verb ערר ('arar), to strip and accumulate.
Related names
Onan
Meaning
[Their] Trouble, [Their] Vigor
Etymology
From the root און ('wn), to experience much trouble or have much vigor.
Related names
Tamar
Meaning
Palm Tree, Free Market
Etymology
From the noun תמר (tamar), palm tree.
Related names

unless you find some better ones, and then bam post them, but you might see how a um more pertinent story is already kinda presenting itself

Hey Mark

As I have said before, it is a spiritual book spiritually understood.
It is by the Spirit that we read the Book with God...and He points over our should as it were, and shows us which meaning he is using in any given account.
The problem comes when people try to grasp a spiritual thing with a literal mind.

We have so many names given for Jesus. The Book uses them differently for different messages at the time...Emanuel, ( we know that meaning) Lamb, Bread, Shepherd , Door, Way, Life etc etc...

Confusion come when people use their minds to get one literal description to fit for one meaning that God is trying to convey. The word is not like that...
These images that are written about are conveying a spiritual message... people want to 'box it' and make it fit neatly.

When we stop trying to 'work it out' in the mind, and hear it in a spiritual way..they God can show us what He is saying.

IMHO

 

[Helen]

No. I’m speaking of an hierarchy of importance when within His body He instructs to give to those parts which lack the more so the whole has need of nothing. I’m speaking of claiming any part is more needful than the another. That is all.


Song of Songs 6:2 My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies.

Luke 12:25-27 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? [26] If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? [27] Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.(lillies)

Now it's my turn to not grasp what you are talking about.
I often lose what you are trying to say , amongst the amount of scriptures you use in your posts. I often don't get how some of them fit with what your thoughts are.
If you gave more of your thoughts , and maybe just bible references and not the whole verses , I could understand and respond clearer .

It must be an old age thing...and only me...maybe everyone else knows what your thoughts are when you post lots of verses

Don't mind me...I'm probably just somewhat slow on the uptake.

Blessings ...H

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Gird the lions and strengthen that which remains.

Oh no...I thought I had to gird my loins, but you say I have to gird LIONS?? That's going to be tricky...

 

[Nancy]

Now it's my turn to not grasp what you are talking about.
I often lose what you are trying to say , amongst the amount of scriptures you use in your posts. I often don't get how some of them fit with what your thoughts are.
If you gave more of your thoughts , and maybe just bible references and not the whole verses , I could understand and respond clearer .

It must be an old age thing...and only me...maybe everyone else knows what your thoughts are when you post lots of verses

Don't mind me...I'm probably just somewhat slow on the uptake.

Blessings ...H

I too am slow on the uptake where concerns many verses and no thoughts. I get lost in long posts. I do try to understand many on here to no ado

 

[Nancy]

Oh no...I thought I had to gird my loins, but you say I have to gird LIONS?? That's going to be tricky...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Now it's my turn to not grasp what you are talking about.
I often lose what you are trying to say , amongst the amount of scriptures you use in your posts. I often don't get how some of them fit with what your thoughts are.
If you gave more of your thoughts , and maybe just bible references and not the whole verses , I could understand and respond clearer .

It must be an old age thing...and only me...maybe everyone else knows what your thoughts are when you post lots of verses

Don't mind me...I'm probably just somewhat slow on the uptake.

Blessings ...H

I agree. Wish I could be more like my husband...what I try to say in five hundred words somehow he accomplishes in a sentence. Most of the time in every post it is something I’m also working out and it is never I’ve known this for years. Sometimes, well most of time, I get overly zealous and run shouting and wanting to share it immediately as something I never saw before...like a child I guess. My husband said sometimes it might come off as “gluttony” to over feed to where others are turned off by it. And maybe short would be better. As far as “pecking order” maybe it is my fault as I have had a bad image and taste for it after someone pointed out hens find a sore weak spot in other hens and peck at it till they die. I do appreciate your maturity which I lack.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I find there is no reference to "The Bride Of Christ" ...

Sorry I'm late to the discussion. I hope nobody missed me and apologize if they did!

So I'm confused whether the discussion is per the title "Body of Christ" or the OP "Bride of Christ".

Certainly the church (Body of Christ) is referenced in Revelation as "my people" and possibly other citations.


Glad to be part of the discussion!
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

I find there is no reference to "The Bride Of Christ" anywhere in the bible.
Fourteen times, is the word, "bride," mentioned in the New Testament, only oonce in the Gospel of John, and then 4 more times in Rev. In John, the "bridegroom" is said to be Jesus Christ.
Revelation 21: "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." <---Is this to mean that the Jews are the "bride"? And, Christians will be the "guests" at the wedding supper of the Lamb? After all, the Jew's ARE the chosen of God...and I believe it is a Hebrew custom for the Father to choose the wife of their sons...not sure but, it's what I have heard said.
Any thoughts?

It's sort of an idea from the Isaiah 54 Scripture, used metaphorically for God's elect, while the actual 'bride' is Jerusalem per Revelation 21. In the verses in green, it is clear that God is talking about Jerusalem. But in the verses before that, He is talking about believers on Him. Apostle Paul pulled from this Isaiah chapter in 2 Corinthians 11, saying he espoused us to one Husband (i.e., Christ).

Isa 54:5-13
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8 In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.

11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
KJV

 

[Nancy]

Sorry I'm late to the discussion. I hope nobody missed me and apologize if they did!

So I'm confused whether the discussion is per the title "Body of Christ" or the OP "Bride of Christ".

Certainly the church (Body of Christ) is referenced in Revelation as "my people" and possibly other citations.


Glad to be part of the discussion!
Bobby Jo

"So I'm confused whether the discussion is per the title "Body of Christ" or the OP "Bride of Christ". "

Speaking to both here. I got some great view points...I wondered if the Bride was referencing the Jews and the "guests" are all others. Lot's of answers that I do agree with and, I am not solid on this yet. But, He will make it clear as I seek His truth...He always does

 

[Helen]

As far as “pecking order” maybe it is my fault as I have had a bad image and taste for it after someone pointed out hens find a sore weak spot in other hens and peck at it till they die. I do appreciate your maturity which I lack

Thanks for you post
No offence was intended.... thanks for understanding. It is just that you have good thoughts to share, which sometimes get lost in the abundance of scripture.

As for the pecking order thing. It sound like you believe that the earth is the same as heaven? Do you not trust God to run His own kingdom
As if He would allow anything or anyone with a cruel, or evil streak into Heaven...let alone in a place of responsibility. LOL

Do the angels resent the Archangels ? I think not.

I didn't miss your husbands post saying that if there is a pecking order ( a phrase I hate being used for heaven) ...in heaven then he doesn't want to go!

I can only say- be careful what you wish for.
Especially as it says ..The Son is subject to the Father...

But...we all choose what it is that we put on our 'plate of beliefs'.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

the challenge seems to be when we start assigning higher statures and pecking orders to what He said those who lack are given more of those who have so no part has need or lack. For instance “friends”...all of it we want to assign lower roles and “labels” to all His parts...no different than the government we already see working in and of the world.

Something feels wrong to me about what you are saying...I mean, yes, if the body is working right, any who lack will receive from those who have until all have no lack and come to the unity of the faith. But God is going to give to each as He wills for this and it is going to start with one person who God chooses and gives the vision to and the "pecking order" will start with that person who God gives to in order that they give to the others.

You should be grateful and not like Aaron and Miriam, who complained about Gods "pecking order" of picking the humblest man He finds to begin with, and said, hasn't God spoken to us too?

That man who has been given the vision is necessary to the body as the eye. And God isn't going to give the vision to the arm or leg. So the arm or leg should know it's weakness (as a weaker part) and learn to be as humble as the man given to see to guide the body. I mean, the eye gives light to the rest of the body so the rest of the body can even know which direction to start walking. Hopefully, other gifts will be given to others but that can't even BEGIN to be a possibility of happening without the vision first. And you certainly aren't honoring God if you don't honor the man He gives the vision to and sends to you!

 

[Bobby Jo]

...I wondered if the Bride was referencing the Jews and the "guests" are all others. ...

In the context of Rev. 18, it should be understood that "Babylon" is a reference to the "Metropolis" model which Nebuchadnezzar exploited for the first World Empire, in which Four other empires followed (Dan. 2), of which we are presently in the Fifth "divided kingdom" as evidenced by the Three Superpowers and the United Nations (Dan. 7). And where the 153 fish are the nations*, the fish on the fire is Israel (John 21).

So given that Israel is the fish on the fire, it would appear that the Rev. 18 "my people" represent the "body of Christ" which are warned to leave major cities so that they do not suffer in the judgements which GOD will effect. -- I.e., consider the current plagues in Southern California and other major cities, not withstanding additional punishment which will include nuclear weapon detonations.

* The U.N. has 192 participating nations, but apparently some 39 nations are (or will be) represented by other "parent" nations, leaving the 153 actual nation representatives participating in the U.N. General Assembly.​

Hope this helps!
Bobby Jo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Something feels wrong to me about what you are saying...I mean, yes, if the body is working right, any who lack will receive from those who have until all have no lack and come to the unity of the faith. But God is going to give to each as He wills for this and it is going to start with one person who God chooses and gives the vision to and the "pecking order" will start with that person who God gives to in order that they give to the others.

You should be grateful and not like Aaron and Miriam, who complained about Gods "pecking order" of picking the humblest man He finds to begin with, and said, hasn't God spoken to us too?

That man who has been given the vision is necessary to the body as the eye. And God isn't going to give the vision to the arm or leg. So the arm or leg should know it's weakness (as a weaker part) and learn to be as humble as the man given to see to guide the body. I mean, the eye gives light to the rest of the body so the rest of the body can even know which direction to start walking. Hopefully, other gifts will be given to others but that can't even BEGIN to be a possibility of happening without the vision first. And you certainly aren't honoring God if you don't honor the man He gives the vision to and sends to you!

not sure how it turned into a man, but what you said about Aaron and Miriam I’ll consider as you may be right. Only saying for one I look forward with hope to things not being the same as they are now. Is it wrong to look forward to the no opposing of others for gain and to want 2 Corinthians 8:14But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
Or 1 Corinthians 9:11-12 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? [12] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Which seems that is what your suggesting... I am oppressing others with vision and am bitter like Miriam. who was stuck with leprosy because of it. That is a serious accusation with two witnesses, so again maybe there is truth to it.

 

[Nancy]

In the context of Rev. 18, it should be understood that "Babylon" is a reference to the "Metropolis" model which Nebuchadnezzar exploited for the first World Empire, in which Four other empires followed (Dan. 2), of which we are presently in the Fifth "divided kingdom" as evidenced by the Three Superpowers and the United Nations (Dan. 7). And where the 153 fish are the nations*, the fish on the fire is Israel (John 21).

So given that Israel is the fish on the fire, it would appear that the Rev. 18 "my people" represent the "body of Christ" which are warned to leave major cities so that they do not suffer in the judgements which GOD will effect. -- I.e., consider the current plagues in Southern California and other major cities, not withstanding additional punishment which will include nuclear weapon detonations.

* The U.N. has 192 participating nations, but apparently some 39 nations are (or will be) represented by other "parent" nations, leaving the 153 actual nation representatives participating in the U.N. General Assembly.​

Hope this helps!
Bobby Jo

Ahh! This stuff is so deep, kind of over my head! There seem to be so many, too many ways to look at the subject. Thanks for adding...just more food for thought! My brain needs to fast for a bit on this one, I think. lol.