Born of water and Spirit...born AGAIN.

[Nancy]

After many years of hearing, reading and believing that we MUST be water baptized to be truly saved, there has been a shift in that belief as I have prayed, studied and searched.
The idea of first being born of water has me starting to look at the Nicodemus passage differently. I can't get the idea that first born of water has nothing to do with baptism in water but being in the mothers womb surrounded by a sac of amniotic fluid. When the time for birth comes, that sack of water bursts, and the baby is born in a rush of water, entering the world as a new creature. Born again=begotten again. I have also been thinking that water baptism is simply a public confession to celebrate new life and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Also, I think the act itself, signifies the washing away of sins.

"1Peter 1:23 - for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God."
Anybody have any thoughts on this possibility?
-nancy

 

[Heb 13:8]

John 3 is referring to spiritual water, per John 7:37-39. John 3 has nothing to do with amniotic fluid or H2O or any other lies others have told. Spiritual water flows from the kingdom of God into the hearts and minds of believers, or what we like to call "anointing".

1Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

 

[Nancy]

John 3 is referring to spiritual water, per John 7:37-39. John 3 has nothing to do with amniotic fluid or H2O or any other lies others have told. Spiritual water flows from the kingdom of God into the hearts and minds of believers, or what we like to call "anointing".

1Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Thank you Heb 13:8, but I still think what I wrote is definitely plausible. I also understand that "water" has several different uses in the bible.
Thank you for the reply! God Bless
-nancy

 

[APAK]

After many years of hearing, reading and believing that we MUST be water baptized to be truly saved, there has been a shift in that belief as I have prayed, studied and searched.
The idea of first being born of water has me starting to look at the Nicodemus passage differently. I can't get the idea that first born of water has nothing to do with baptism in water but being in the mothers womb surrounded by a sac of amniotic fluid. When the time for birth comes, that sack of water bursts, and the baby is born in a rush of water, entering the world as a new creature. Born again=begotten again. I have also been thinking that water baptism is simply a public confession to celebrate new life and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Also, I think the act itself, signifies the washing away of sins.

"1Peter 1:23 - for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God."
Anybody have any thoughts on this possibility?
-nancy

Nancy:

Jesus spoke to the chief Rabbi and said he had to be first born as a human (water) and then reborn as a spiritual human being with the regenerative (spirit) of God. Flesh is born of flesh, spirit is born of spirit. The Rabbi though he he had to be physically reborn in his mothers' womb (water). Rebirth ‘water’ is not water baptism. Now a major part of the process of coming to God is we believe we are ‘baptized’ in Christ.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Heb 13:8]

Thank you Heb 13:8, but I still think what I wrote is definitely plausible. I also understand that "water" has several different uses in the bible.
Thank you for the reply! God Bless
-nancy

No, it's not plausible.
Being born again is a spiritual experience.
Where do you think the Holy Spirit comes from?
This is the reason Nicodemus asked his question.
Holy Spirit baptism = Spiritual

John 3:4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jhn 3:6-8 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

[Enoch111]

...being in the mothers womb surrounded by a sac of amniotic fluid...

How in the world can being in a mother's woman have anything to do with the New Birth? It pertains to natural human birth, and all human beings go through this.

 

[Nancy]

I never said that ones "natural" birth was the spiritual birth...being born again means you were first born ONCE---of water/natural/womb...then you become born of the Spirit through Jesus Christ hence-born AGAIN anew Spiritually.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I never said that ones "natural" birth was the spiritual birth...being born again means you were first born ONCE---of water/natural/womb...then you become born of the Spirit through Jesus Christ hence-born AGAIN anew Spiritually.

No, being born again has nothing to do with being born in your mothers womb. It's a birth that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, Rom 10:9. Being born of water and spirit are referring to the same thing, the same event in Rom 10:9.

John 3:4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

 

[Heb 13:8]

Spiritual water through the indwelling Holy Spirit upon salvation, Rom 10:9

 

[Nancy]

How in the world can being in a mother's woman have anything to do with the New Birth? It pertains to natural human birth, and all human beings go through this.

It has nothing to do with the New Birth! If one becomes Born AGAIN does that not mean they were already born once? - In the natural? Then the second birth is spiritual...Never said being born of a woman was being "Born again".

 

[JPPT1974]

For those born again, they have to be both born of the world along with being born in God through Jesus Christ and just read John 3:16-17 for proof.
But for those not born again will be dying not just a physical death but one that is eternally separated from Christ.

 

[Nancy]

Nancy:

Jesus spoke to the chief Rabbi and said he had to be first born as a human (water) and then reborn as a spiritual human being with the regenerative (spirit) of God. Flesh is born of flesh, spirit is born of spirit. The Rabbi though he he had to be physically reborn in his mothers' womb (water). Rebirth ‘water’ is not water baptism. Now a major part of the process of coming to God is we believe we are ‘baptized’ in Christ.

Bless you,

APAK

"Jesus spoke to the chief Rabbi and said he had to be first born as a human (water) and then reborn as a spiritual human being with the regenerative (spirit) of God. Flesh is born of flesh, spirit is born of spirit."--Yes! That is just what I said. First Birth-womb surrounded by water. Second Birth-Born of the Spirit...Yes, Nicodemus was thinking the second birth was the same as natural birth...he was already born that way once. He just needed to believe Jesus was his long awaited Messiah to be born of the Spirit...(IMHO)

 

[Helen]

It has nothing to do with the New Birth! If one becomes Born AGAIN does that not mean they were already born once? - In the natural? Then the second birth is spiritual...Never said being born of a woman was being "Born again".

It seems to me that some here can't hear what you are saying!

I agree with you that water baptism is more a spiritual thing than a required thing. But have fun in trying to convince others

Many of us were baptised in water because we were told that we had to be.
It is a good witness ai agree... it is good in spiritual warfare when harassed by the Devil . We can point to the day and time and say "Get lost, I died with Christ, and I am raised with Him"
Which is what baptism is signifying.

Do I believe that water baptism is a must for salvation...No, I do not.

Bless you...Helen.
Good interesting thread Nancy.

 

[Enoch111]

It has nothing to do with the New Birth! If one becomes Born AGAIN does that not mean they were already born once? - In the natural? Then the second birth is spiritual...Never said being born of a woman was being "Born again".

But that's exactly the point. All sinners come into this world through natural childbirth. Therefore it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation and the New Birth.

 

[Nancy]

For those born again, they have to be both born of the world along with being born in God through Jesus Christ and just read John 3:16-17 for proof.
But for those not born again will be dying not just a physical death but one that is eternally separated from Christ.

"they have to be both born of the world-(Through natural means, mom) along with being born in God through Jesus Christ..." Can't help it, unless someone can make better sense of this issue to me, other than the same scriptures that really have nothing to do with my post (except John 3) it remains untested to me for now. I sure appreciate all of your responses!
In Christ,
-nancy

 

[Nancy]

It seems to me that some here can't hear what you are saying!

I agree with you that water baptism is more a spiritual thing than a required thing. But have fun in trying to convince others

Many of us were baptised in water because we were told that we had to be.
It is a good witness ai agree... it is good in spiritual warfare when harassed by the Devil . We can point to the day and time and say "Get lost, I died with Christ, and I am raised with Him"
Which is what baptism is signifying.

Do I believe that water baptism is a must for salvation...No, I do not.

Bless you...Helen.
Good interesting thread Nancy.

Aw, thank you so much Helen you are a kind lady . Yes, it seems I am not getting my point across very well, lol. I was not even thinking about water baptism when I wrote the OP, lol...I was baptized as an infant (Catholicism) then again in 1993 as an adult. To me is signified my confessing with my mouth that Jesus is Lord in front of the congregation and also signifies the washing away of my many sins.
Be blessed always in Christ!
-nancy

 

[Nancy]

But that's exactly the point. All sinners come into this world through natural childbirth. Therefore it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation and the New Birth.

Can't be born of the Spirit unless you are first born naturally...Just my understanding.

 

[Heb 13:8]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:

BEING BORN AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING BORN OF THE WORLD OR BORN IN YOUR MOTHERS WOMB. BEING BORN AGAIN COMES FROM HEAVEN, NOT FROM THE WORLD. IT COMES ONLY THROUGH BELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST AND ROM 10:9.

 

[Enoch111]

"1Peter 1:23 - for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God."
Anybody have any thoughts on this possibility?

OK. Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

A. First of all let's closely examine what Jesus said about the New Birth.

1. Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God -- this tells us the the New Birth is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in order to see the Kingdom of God. To see would not only mean to physically see the Kingdom of God (when it is established on earth), but to see the spiritual Kingdom of God as it presently exists, and as revealed by Christ and the apostles in Scripture. The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit.

2. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God -- this tells us that there are two SUPERNATURAL agents or factors which bring about the New Birth: (a) "water" which cannot be H20 (or amniotic fluid), since water is natural, and this water must be supernatural, since it pertains to the soul and spirit, and inner regeneration, not the washing of the body; and (b) the Spirit, which means the Holy Spirit, which means God the Holy Spirit Himself.

B. So now we can turn to 1 Peter 1:23-25 and determine that what was presented as "water" in John's Gospel is in fact the Gospel, which is also called "the Word of God", and which also has supernatural power, since Paul calls it "the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION" (Rom 1:16).

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25).

So Peter makes it very clear that the Gospel (the Word of God) is the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth, which is used by the Holy Spirit as He convicts and convinces sinners, and then brings them to salvation and regeneration. This is A SUPERNATURAL WORK OF GOD, and water baptism simply confirms that the believer has been born again.

When we study the Parable of the Sower, we can immediately connect the seed of the Gospel with the New Birth, which must produce spiritual fruit: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold...But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Mt 13:8,23).

 

[Helen]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:

BEING BORN AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING BORN OF THE WORLD OR BORN IN YOUR MOTHERS WOMB. BEING BORN AGAIN COMES FROM HEAVEN, NOT FROM THE WORLD. IT COMES ONLY THROUGH BELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST AND ROM 10:9.

Oh come on folks...why is everyone pretending that they don't understand what Nancy is talking about. If my "three year old" was not now 56 , she could have understood.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, ( referring to man being born ONCE) he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? ( answer NO)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
( speaking of the water of the WORD..faith comes by HEARING..faith does not come by a dipping into natural water)
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

But then again...maybe it is me who has misunderstood what Nancy is trying to say.
It wouldn't be the first time.