BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

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CharismaticLady

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@Taken and @BreadOfLife

You two are like the blind leading the blind. And Taken, your list of what I believe is just as clueless. You not only misinterpret scripture, you misinterpret what I believe! Oh, well.

I'll leave you two to your follies.
 
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Taken

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@Taken and @BreadOfLife

You two are like the blind leading the blind. And Taken, your list of what I believe is just as clueless. You not only misinterpret scripture, you misinterpret what I believe! Oh, well.

I'll leave you two to your follies.

I haven't interpreted YOUR BELIEF...and your DEFLECTION, does not go unnoticed...

You made your own claims.....for YOURSELF.
I asked you QUESTIONS...ABOUT your claims....and you failed to answer....and now you make some snarky remarks and then bow out.... Cool with me...I perfer speaking with people who can verify what they believe applies to them via Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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@Taken and @BreadOfLife

You two are like the blind leading the blind. And Taken, your list of what I believe is just as clueless. You not only misinterpret scripture, you misinterpret what I believe! Oh, well.

I'll leave you two to your follies.
Soooo, you're another one of those people who denies that Jesus had a human nature?
Virtually EVERY heresy that was dealt with during the first SIX centuries had to do with the nature of Christ.

Funny how some things never change . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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So what?
WHO are you arguing AGAINST? LOL

NO ONE has said John was NOT speaking about ALL People...
NO ONE has said "THEY ARE WITHOUT SIN"
THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS MADE CLAIMS...THAT A PERSON "IS" WITHOUT SIN.........IS YOU!
So.....TRY REALLY HARD "QUOTING" ONE PERSON....(other than yourself)....
WHO HAS SAID what SCRIPTURE SAYS...
And here is WHAT Scripture says.
And here are the WORDS a person must claim.

1 John 1:8
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

LOL....for UMPTEEN pages and post......

YOU HAVE NOT QUOTED ONE PERSON FULFILLING that Scripture BY saying they "HAVE NO SIN"....

Yet you go on and on and on to ad nausum repeatedly posting 1 John 1:8........AS IF, you are trying to COMMENT TO A PERSON "CLAIMING TO HAVE NO SIN"....when YOU HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED ONE PERSON MAKING THAT CLAIM....(but yourself).

LOL...you need not post on the forum to talk to yourself...

Glory to God,
Taken
Your problem is that you like to play idiotic word games but you HATE being exposed.

As I told you several times already - YOU claimed to be without sin.

You stated that you have been forgiven of ALL past sin.
You stated that you are incapable of committing FUTURE sins.
This makes you SIN-FREE because there is no such thing as sinful flesh. Sin requires the WILL.
Meat can't sin without the WILL.

1 John 1:8 states that you have deceived yourself and the truth is NOT in you . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Already did...but then perhaps you are SELECTIVE reader...
Ecc 3:20
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Jesus was FIRST born of God AND THEN born of a woman.
I was First born of a woman AND THEN born of God.

Obviously, you do not consider the source of the SEED.

Jesus did not COME FROM a human mans SEED, or of a Woman's SEED being
Fertilized..

Obviously you can not COMPREHEND Spiritual things...
The word that came forth out of Gods MOUTH, (born of God), was SENT to Earth, to be manifested IN THE FLESH "LIKENESS" "AS" an Earthly HUMAN MAN....and said to be CALLED THEE SON OF GOD.

Obviously you don NOT COMPREHEND the FIRST (CREATED) "not born" man was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD...
THE LIKENESS...the first man was NOT GOD...he was made in the LIKENESS of God!

Jesus was MADE in the LIKENESS OF an Earthly man...He was not MADE a HUMAN.

Your teaching is CORRUPT and according to Carnal Understanding....
NO Spiritual Understanding.

Even the disciples themselves agree, they FIRST "KNEW" Jesus "as a man"...
But after gaining Spiritual Understanding, they NO LONGER KNEW Him "AS A MAN'....YOU have not come to that Understanding...

2 Cor 5
[16] ...though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Can't say what you were born of, probably from a mans seed fertilizing a woman's seed, as you imply you learned from Science.


I didn't require the SCIENCE of Biology to Know...the Spiritual Understanding OF LIFE.
That God IS LIFE, God GIVES LIFE, God TAKES AWAY LIFE.

Glory to God,
Taken
You CAN'T be that dense.

First of all - Ecc. 3:20 is metaphorical. It states that we are ALL of "dust" because we came from Adam.
However -ONLY Adam was actually MADE from dust (clay). Eve was made from his rib - and the rest of use came from the womb of a WOMAN - NOT the ground.

As for your moronic comments above in RED - Jesus wasn't flesh in Heaven. The Son was SPIRIT.
He took His fleshly Body from His MOTHER.
 

BreadOfLife

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Not once is HUMAN mentioned.
And again, you run tail tucked and do not answer questions.

Get on with your DNA claim....WHAT WAS TESTED and WHEN, for you to claim Jesus was of Mary's DNA...

Glory to God,
Taken
And YOU are a LOT denser that I originally thought . . .

Heb. 2:17-18
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters IN EVERY RESPECT, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. For since he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.


He was made like us in EVERY respect. So, “fully human” or “made like his brothers and sisters IN EVERY RESPECT” is the SAME thing.
What are His "brothers and sisters"? Gods?? Space aliens??
NO
- they are Human Beings - and HE was made like them in "EVERY RESPECT."

You LOST this argument several pages ago.
I'm simply burying you further for those who are visiting - so they won't be seduced by uour lies . . .
 

CharismaticLady

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Soooo, you're another one of those people who denies that Jesus had a human nature?

No, I don't. So you, like Taken don't understand my posts any better than he does. I agreed with you on Jesus being all human, and all God. Pay attention.

What I find you take out of context are 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7. Unfortunately, I can't spend any fruitful time with you because your misinterpretation is actually from your Catechism, and you seem to believe it would be a sin for you to learn a different interpretation, even if it is the Truth, so why bother.
 
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CharismaticLady

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I haven't interpreted YOUR BELIEF...and your DEFLECTION, does not go unnoticed...

You made your own claims.....for YOURSELF.
I asked you QUESTIONS...ABOUT your claims....and you failed to answer....and now you make some snarky remarks and then bow out.... Cool with me...I perfer speaking with people who can verify what they believe applies to them via Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

So you are going to tell me what I believe, huh, that is different than what I've already stated. I think I know what I believe better than you do. LOL You don't even know how ludicrous you sound right now, let alone some of your off-the-wall doctrines that have me scratching my head as to where you come up with this stuff. Bye.
 
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BreadOfLife

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No, I don't. So you, like Taken don't understand my posts any better than he does. I agreed with you on Jesus being all human, and all God. Pay attention.

What I find you take out of context are 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7. Unfortunately, I can't spend any fruitful time with you because your misinterpretation is actually from your Catechism, and you seem to believe it would be a sin for you to learn a different interpretation, even if it is the Truth, so why bother.
Then explain to me why John includes himself in 1 John 1:8.
Explain to me why Paul laments the fact that he STILL sins even though he does not want to because of his faith in Christ.

Can you elaborate?
 

CharismaticLady

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Then explain to me why John includes himself in 1 John 1:8.
Explain to me why Paul laments the fact that he STILL sins even though he does not want to because of his faith in Christ.

Can you elaborate?

I already did on page 6, #507. Did you understand it? One reason John and Paul use first person present is because they are Jews and use Semitic writing styles. If you have read 1 John 3 you will see that John doesn't sin because He is a born again of the Spirit Christian. Paul also writes that Christians are dead to sin and no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit, thus the opposite of Romans 7. So even though he uses first person he is speaking to people who it still applies to. Paul was the worst sinner of all the apostles, including Matthew who had been a tax collector.

Both Paul and John show that all mankind since Adam have sinned and are born with a sin nature and sinned in their life before Christ. 1 John 1:10 is quoting a guy claiming they have NEVER sinned in their whole life. Is that true? Did they know Christ before they were born? Also, read Romans 7:9 "9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." "When the commandment came is referring to the time of Moses and the giving of the law. Was Paul alive then??? No.

It is imperative that when we read scripture that we read in context. 1 John 1 is in context to 1 John 3. They way you presently understand it is not even in context with verses almost right next to 1 John 1:8, meaning verses 6 and 10 which are obviously not filled with the Spirit of Christ and saved, yet you believe, and probably even been taught that 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 are speaking of Christians. Neither are about someone who are filled with the Spirit of God and cannot sin. 1 John 3:9
 
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BreadOfLife

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I already did on page 6, #507. Did you understand it? One reason John and Paul use first person present is because they are Jews and use Semitic writing styles. If you have read 1 John 3 you will see that John doesn't sin because He is a born again of the Spirit Christian. Paul also writes that Christians are dead to sin and no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit, thus the opposite of Romans 7. So even though he uses first person he is speaking to people who it still applies to. Paul was the worst sinner of all the apostles, including Matthew who had been a tax collector.

Both Paul and John show that all mankind since Adam have sinned and are born with a sin nature and sinned in their life before Christ. 1 John 1:10 is quoting a guy claiming they have NEVER sinned in their whole life. Is that true? Did they know Christ before they were born? Also, read Romans 7:9 "9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." "When the commandment came is referring to the time of Moses and the giving of the law. Was Paul alive then??? No.

It is imperative that when we read scripture that we read in context. 1 John 1 is in context to 1 John 3. They way you presently understand it is not even in context with verses almost right next to 1 John 1:8, meaning verses 6 and 10 which are obviously not filled with the Spirit of Christ and saved, yet you believe, and probably even been taught that 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 are speaking of Christians. Neither are about someone who are filled with the Spirit of God and cannot sin. 1 John 3:9
Nice try - but it simply doesn't wash in light of the other Scriptures.

When writing to the Galatians, Paul uses PAST tense to speak of some of his sinful ways - UNLIKE Romans 7, where he wrote in the PRESENT tense:

Gal. 1:13-16
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Similarly, in 1 Cor. 13:11 - he uses PAST tense to describe his life progress:
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

Besides - in BOTH cases - Paul is writing to GENTILES - not Jews - so your notion of his writing about the past in the "Jewish style" of writing in the present tense is silly.

Additionally, James - who is writing to converted, born again Christians - admonishes them to "confess your sins" (James 5:15).
Finally - CHRIST Himself tells His disciples:

Matt. 18:15-18
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, amen, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

"Brother" here does NOT refer to a uterine sibling - but a FELLOW BELIEVER. Otherwise, Church discipline would mean absolutely NOTHING.
 

CharismaticLady

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Nice try - but it simply doesn't wash in light of the other Scriptures.

When writing to the Galatians, Paul uses PAST tense to speak of some of his sinful ways - UNLIKE Romans 7, where he wrote in the PRESENT tense:

Gal. 1:13-16
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Similarly, in 1 Cor. 13:11 - he uses PAST tense to describe his life progress:
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

Besides - in BOTH cases - Paul is writing to GENTILES - not Jews - so your notion of his writing about the past in the "Jewish style" of writing in the present tense is silly.

Additionally, James - who is writing to converted, born again Christians - admonishes them to "confess your sins" (James 5:15).
Finally - CHRIST Himself tells His disciples:

Matt. 18:15-18
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, amen, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

"Brother" here does NOT refer to a uterine sibling - but a FELLOW BELIEVER. Otherwise, Church discipline would mean absolutely NOTHING.


Read Romans 7 in context with the next chapter. Read Romans 7:7 through Romans 8:9. Study it and it will update your archaic thinking to the truth. You must be born again. Romans 7 isn't enough. Once you find the truth, then we can talk - I'm not going to argue with you.
 

BreadOfLife

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Read Romans 7 in context with the next chapter. Read Romans 7:7 through Romans 8:9. Study it and it will update your archaic thinking to the truth. You must be born again. Romans 7 isn't enough. Once you find the truth, then we can talk - I'm not going to argue with you.
Sooooo - are you going to address the other verses?

What does James mean when he tells his born again believing readers to "confess your sins" (James 5:16)??
What did Christ mean when He told His disciples to excommunicate their sinful fellow believer in Matt. 18:15-18??
ALL
Scripture must harmonize or it is a LIE.

You're not going to argue with me because your house of cards just collapsed . . .
 

CharismaticLady

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Sooooo - are you going to address the other verses?

What does James mean when he tells his born again believing readers to "confess your sins" (James 5:16)??
What did Christ mean when He told His disciples to excommunicate their sinful fellow believer in Matt. 18:15-18??
ALL
Scripture must harmonize or it is a LIE.

You're not going to argue with me because your house of cards just collapsed . . .

No it didn't. Nor am I trying to win debates. What a Christian cannot commit are willful sins against the law. 1 John 5:16-17 show two types of sin. Did you know that? What you are referencing are sins Not unto death. They are called trespasses, Leviticus 5:15 explains what a trespass is. So even in 1 John 1:7 a person walking in the Spirit are able to commit trespasses, a minor offense unintentionally committed, but still under the heading of sin, just not a sin unto death. The verse in James is regarding illness. So what sin can you commit that would be regarding illness? Personally, I see it as a lack of faith, which is a sin.

Right now you are playing a game. So is Taken. You both care more about winning debates, than understanding the true meaning of Scripture so you can teach the Truth. It isn't hard if you could just read Scripture in context. Did you read Romans 7:7 through Romans 8:9? What did you discover?
 

CovenantPromise

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Greetings BOL in the name of Jesus the Christ. I am new here, I was just wondering are you a Traditional Catholic or for Ecumenicalism?
I was wondering because you have been here for a while and have sooooo many post to glean through, so I just thought I would just fire straight away and ask.
God Bless!
 

Taken

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As I told you several times already - YOU claimed to be without sin.


EXACTLY....YOU HAVE MADE THAT CLAIM...
I DIDN'T! DUNCE!

1 John 1:8 states that you have deceived yourself and the truth is NOT in you . . .

No it does not. It says "IF" a person makes that claim DUNCE. You speaking FOR Me, is not me making that claim DUNCE!

LOL...:eek:
 

Taken

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You CAN'T be that dense.

First of all - Ecc. 3:20 states that we are ALL of "dust" ...

Uh huh, I know and quote it...LOL

However -ONLY Adam was actually MADE from dust (clay). Eve was made from his rib - and the rest of use came from the womb of a WOMAN - NOT the ground.

LOL...Dunce, WEall RETURN from where we ALL came from!

Guess you will be RETURNING TO YOUR MAMAS WOMB....LOL

As for your moronic comments above in RED - Jesus wasn't flesh in Heaven.

LOL ~ I never said He was flesh .

He took His fleshly Body from His MOTHER.
And YOU are a LOT denser that I originally thought . . .

Heb. 2:17-18
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters IN EVERY RESPECT, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. For since he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.


He was made like us in EVERY respect. So, “fully human” or “made like his brothers and sisters IN EVERY RESPECT” is the SAME thing.
What are His "brothers and sisters"? Gods?? Space aliens??
NO
- they are Human Beings - and HE was made like them in "EVERY RESPECT."

You LOST this argument several pages ago.
I'm simply burying you further for those who are visiting - so they won't be seduced by uour lies . . .

LOL ~ You are laughable at every turn.

HUMANS are Thee Lord Gods CREATIONS.
Thee Lord GOD is NOT A HUMAN!

Thee Lord God was MANIFESTED, in the "LIKENESS" as a (HUMAN) MAN, IN A BODY OF FLESH That God PREPARED....Just like Scripture SAYS!


(Guess the catholics fail to teach God IS ALL Powerful and can TAKE UPON HIMSELF, the
"LIKENESS" of His Creations!)

LOL, LOL, LOL

Glory to Thee Lord God Almighty;
who is SPIRIT.

Taken
 

Taken

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So you are going to tell me what I believe, huh, that is different than what I've already stated. I think I know what I believe better than you do. LOL You don't even know how ludicrous you sound right now, let alone some of your off-the-wall doctrines that have me scratching my head as to where you come up with this stuff. Bye.

LOL that's funny...

I just acknowledged you make your claims ...For yourself....
and you come back with a ridiculous comment as if I was making claims for you...!! :D

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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What a Christian cannot commit are willful sins against the law.

Here I would agree with your intent, but disagree with your wording.

The word "Christian", was a LABEL given BY men, (who did NOT follow Jesus), TO men, (who DID follow Jesus).

Jesus never used the word "Christian".
Jesus used the word "CONVERTED".
Matt. 18:3.

Anyone can FOLLOW Jesus Christ's Teachings and Believe...and FALL AWAY from Following and Believing............. EXCEPT a CONVERTED man (who CAN NOT FALL AWAY).

Continuously men who are hearing, following, believing; are WARNED..."they CAN FALL AWAY"....LOSE OUT on receiving their Salvation that Jesus OFFERED TO THEM...."IF" they do NOT continue hearing, following, believing........AND BECOME CONVERTED.

JUDAS is our prime EXAMPLE, of a man to WHO: followed, believed, THEN REJECTED the Lord..........BECAUSE he NEVER BECAME "CONVERTED".

The "UNCONVERTED": are STILL under "the LIMITS" of their own power, and are EASILY TEMPTED....whereas the CONVERTED are under "THE SUPREME POWER" of God, WHO KEEPS "His own unto Himself".

So while you say Christian, I would disagree and say CONVERTED.

Because there are "MANY" who identify "themselves" (and others identify THEM) as Christians.....YET...THEY are "NOT" all CONVERTED.

If they "WERE"...you would NeVer See, a person attending a "Christian Church" for days, months, years....LEARNING ABOUT thee Lord God....and THEN one day publically (before the congregation) ACCEPTING thee Lord God....commonly called an invitation to an Alter Call.

One moment such a person is (in today's age) called a Christian...and the next moment the same person is called a Christian...

Yet in Scripture, at the moment a person Heartfully Accepts and Declares Belief IN God and IN Jesus the Christ....that person IS EXPRESSLY called "a CONVERTED" person.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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1 John 5:16-17 show two types of sin. Did you know that? What you are referencing are sins Not unto death. They are called trespasses, Leviticus 5:15 explains what a trespass is. So even in 1 John 1:7 a person walking in the Spirit are able to commit trespasses, a minor offense unintentionally committed, but still under the heading of sin, just not a sin unto death.

Here Again, I agree with your intent, but would not entirely agree with your words.

Eph 2:1
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD IN
trespasses AND sins;


I read Eph 2:1 as "DEAD IN"....TWO different things;
Trespass "AND" Sins....

And whereby you are point to BOL, to understand WHAT a Brother means in Context, so also sin AND trespass must be understood in context.

Addressing Brother: Which I agree, BOL fails to understand in the context of reading Scripture.

Some Examples;
All Jews ARE "BROTHERS", regardless of their personal beliefs.
All Siblings ARE "BROTHERS", regardless of their personal beliefs.
All Faithful to God ARE "BROTHERS".
All Believers IN God and Jesus the Christ ARE "BROTHERS"
All Believers IN God and Jesus the Christ AND CONVERTED IN Christ (whether Jew or Gentile), are "BROTHERS".

So, I agree, there IS an EXPRESS delineation of WHO ARE brothers, and HOW they are Brothers and the CONTEXT of Scripture reveals the delineation.

And Part of that delineation IS determined BY;
WHO and WHY.

God gave "THE LAW" to "particular people".
What those "particular" people were CALLED...is expressed IN Scripture...
Hebrews, Israel, Tribes of Israel...<--- and NONE of those 'names' included "GENTILES".

And NOT ALL of those expressly CALLED people, CHOSE to "KEEP" or "ObeY" Gods Laws. (They are brothers by STOCK (seed of their fathers), but not brothers, "BY" SEED of God.

THEE "SEED" of God.......IS Christ.
Gal 3:
[16] Now "to Abraham and his seed were the promises made." He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Promises were MADE to Abraham...(not Abram)...and TO Abraham's SEED.
(Here it APPEARS at first, every Descendant of ABRAHAM, received a PROMISE...but IN CONTEXT, those who RECEIVE ABRAHAM'S PROMISE, are those "WHO" have received the SAME SEED, as Abraham....WHICH IS GODS SEED, which IS Christ.

And the PROMISE given Abraham, WAS A LAND Interitance, FOR ALL, "who" have received the SAME SEED (Gods SEED), as Faithful Servant Abraham received. (And that LAND, is the SAME LAND, that will ENCOMPASS Christ Jesus' Earthly Kingdom) and WHY it was Necessary FOR JESUS, to TAKE UPON HIMSELF,
(Heb 2:
16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.)
the seed of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, king David, and was manifested ON EARTH, IN the Flesh BODY God PREPARED,
(Heb 10:[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:)
as the "son of JEWS"...Jesus HAD to fulfill the Law OF the Jews, that ONLY a JEW "by Jewish Law", can "Lawfully" SIT on King David's Everlasting throne....and fulfills the Jewish Law, that GOD BE the Jews "KING".

Thus Jesus WAS manifested ON EARTH, "IN the flesh...not only "as" a man.....BUT a "lawful" Jewish man.
And not ANY man, BUT... LIKE Abraham...
A FAITHUL SERVANT TO GOD.

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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