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Featured BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Taken, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    I AGREE, "SIN" is a LACK OF FAITH.

    And will elaborate.
    FAITH is a GIFT from God.
    FAITH is a GIFT "FROM GOD"..."TO MEN", who are being "ENLIGHTENED"...hearing, learning, The Word of God, and believing what they are hearing and Learning.

    Any man WHO, (just like the diciples) is BEGINNING to Hear and Learn, AND BELIEVING, is given MEASURES of FAITH...
    And men (as did the diciples), MAY wonder, question, challenge, doubt, deny, SOME THINGS THEY ARE hearing and learning...
    (And on those points are NOT receiving enlightenment, or receiving measures of faith and in the next instance, believe, trust, and then are being enlightened, and receiving more FAITH.)

    It is the Carnal MINDS HUMAN NATURE, to doubt, deny, challenge what the Mind does NOT yet understand.

    God does NOT "appeal" to a mans Carnal MIND...God appeals TO a mans "natural spirit"....WHICH IS: the mans TRUTH IN HIS HEART (not his mind).

    THAT is the WHOLE INTENT of a conversion of a MAN...is for a man TO BECOME.....
    "IN THE "LIKENESS" of God..."

    Meaning...God IS NEVER "IN Conflict WITH HIMSELF.
    Gods Counsel IS WITHIN Himself;
    His MIND, His SOUL, HIS WORD, HIS SPIRIT...are ALWAYS in AGREEMENT.

    Man NATURALLY...IS NOT.
    Mans spirit in his heart can absolutely know his truth...and his MIND deceive lies...and his Mouth speak lies.

    Conversion of a MAN, CHANGES a MAN...
    BY Gods POWER...and KEEPS the CHANGE in the man...BY Gods POWER within the man.

    FAITH is a GIFT from God, that is GIVEN IN MEASURES...It is the mans continued flollowing, hearing, learning, that Continues Strenghtening the mans FAITH...which leads to the man BEING PREPARED, TO: submit himself to thee Lord God and ACCEPT "His Conversion", ONCE and FOREVER.

    Going back to "SIN" and "Trespass".

    MY sIN AGAINSt GOD...was NEVER according to me "NOT FOLLOWING A LAW given Hebrews and the Tribes of Israel".

    MY SIN AGAINST GOD, was being naturally born AND NOT: BELIEVING IN thee Lord God.
    And THAT is the same for EVERY man.

    It is WHEN Thee Heavenly God is revealed to a person....that the person THEN has the freewill to make his OwN CHOICE to follow, hear, learn, believe....and COMMIT their belief IN and TO God....or not.

    And Further...it is WHEN Thee Lord Jesus is reveal to a person...that the person THAN has the freewill to make his OWN CHOICE to follow, hear, learn, believe....and COMMIT their belief IN and TO God and thee Lord Jesus....or not.

    Babies, can not reason or comprehend what or who God is or the Lord Jesus....Babies have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for what they do not know.

    Men however ARE ACCOUNTABLE for hearing, learning....and then CHOOSING....TO commit TO thee Lord God....or CHOOSING TO Reject thee Lord God.

    The Tribes of ISRAEL, particularly the JEWS, KEEPING their Faithfulness TO God....were being INTRODUCED TO Thee Lord Jesus...THEIR CHRIST MESSIAH...

    He (Jesus), DID NOT APPeAr TO THEM...AS they EXPECTED...BUT SOME Jews, followed and listened and heard and began understanding.....WHY Jesus did NOT appear TO THEM "as God", but rather "in the "LIKENESS", as a man, A Faithful SERVANT of God.......thus a DIVIDE among the Jews ensued. ....AND continues TO this DAY.

    SOME Jews...
    1) just like days of old, favor secular ways before God.
    2) just like days of old, continue UNDER the Laws of Moses, and still are WAITING for their Messiah to come SAVE them.
    3) Just like days of old, HAVE heard, believe, and Commited their BELIEF, IN God, and IN Jesus their Christ Messiah...
    (AND BTW, they "DO NOT" call themselves "CHRISTIANS" OR "Born Again Christians"!)

    I have HEARD and Learned about Thee God of the Jews, and exercised MY Freewill TO Believe IN Thee Heavenly God of the Jews...
    (And I do not thus CALL myself a Jew!)

    I have HEARD and Learned about Thee Christ Messiah of the Jews, and exercised MY Freewill TO Believe IN The Christ Messiah of the Jews...
    (And I do not thus CALL myself a Jews!)

    I exercised MY FREEWILL TO call on the Lord Jesus, and COMMIT, "by my word, and my belief IN MY natural spirit (truth) in MY HEART"...my VOW of Belief IN thee Heavenly God AND thee Lord Jesus. And I TRUST, thee Lord Jesus IS FAITHFUL, and CONVERTED ME, ONCE and FOREVER...that from that moment; BY HIS POWER....FOREVER He "KEEPS ME" in Belief and faith-FULLNESS...TO:
    Thee .... Son, Father, Holy Spirt...CALLED;
    ............Lord God Almighty.

    My brothers...in the NATURAL order of things...are Gentiles, are siblings.

    My brothers...in the SPIRITUAL, ORDER of things...is ANY person "WHO" has "RECEIVED" the SEED of God.....and according to Scripture...(they are not called "christians or messianic Jews or catholics or protestants or muslims....or a whole host of other names people like to LABEL themselves and others"........THEY ARE CALLED:
    ................sons of God..........1 John 3:9

    You may understand that...but BOL does NOT, nor can consider ANYTHING, but what "his holy father", the pope decrees.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  2. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    YOU have accused me of:
    Being Blind...
    Playing a game...
    Winning debates...

    Elaborate with your accusations...
    Blind to WHAT exactly? Scriptural TRUTHS?
    ....IF that is it....QUOTE ME specifically what "you think" I am BLIND TO.

    Playing a game? Explain what you mean and then....QUOTE ME specifically what "you think" is this GAME you speak of.

    Winning debates. What debate exactly?

    WHAT exactly DO YOU claim I have said...that IS NOT TRUTH?

    I TRUST and BELIEVE Scripture.
    I DO NOT trust or believe BOL's understanding of Scripture OR his words.

    I speak WHAT I BELIEVE.
    I don't speak FOR YOU.
    I don't speak FOR BOL.
    I speak for myself.

    I can Disagree with with YOU.
    I can Disagree with BOL.
    And I can repeat what YOU or BOL have spoken for yourselves.......AND agree or disagree with either of you.

    I have NO DEBATE with BOL.
    He says what he believes....I disagree...and say what I believe.

    "IF" you had read the FIRST POST of this THREAD....YOU might have understood...
    MY.......CHALLENGE......TO BOL...

    BOL, has a HABIT, OF "SPEAKING FOR" Other people. THEN....after "he SPEAKS FOR" Other people...he thumbs through the Scriptures and QUOTES a Scripture TO the Other person....and BOL then DECLARES "that Scripture" "APPLIES" to the OTHER person.

    And when the other Person says..I didn't say that....Quote me saying that...
    BOL simply claims YOU DID SAY THAT (without quoting the other person)....and then says, you are Disagreeing with Scripture.


    This is a LONG ongoing thing between BOL and myself, and the WHOLE POINT of this thread.

    I said...I was naturally born IN SIN.
    I said...I was not naturally born knowing or Beliving IN thee Lord God.
    (And agree, as you said...SIN IS a LACK OF FAITH)...IN thee Lord God.

    I have also said....I heard, learned, trust to Believe IN thee Lord God..........AND Committed BY Belief TO thee Lord....AND TRUST He is Faithful and Converted me...thus by HIS POWER "FORGAVE" and "COVERED" my SINS "AGAINST" Him, that he remembers them NO MORE.

    I have also said....BECAUSE "He has converted me......"I COMMIT SIN NO MORE

    I NEVER SAID...

    1 John 1:
    [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    (And Neither did John say that).

    BOL is too IGNORANT to KNOW, "HAVING SIN" and "COMMITTING SIN", are TWO entirely different things.

    MY BODY of FLESH was naturally BORN IN SIN...the flesh itself is a mans SHAME of sin.

    If you are familiar with removing the skin from an animal, you would know the animals BLOOD would be shed, and the animal DEAD.

    And God Himself, took SKINS of Animals and COVERED the flesh bodies (SHAME) of Adam and Adams wife, before they were sent OUT of the Garden.

    Gen 3
    [21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

    THAT was a foreshadow, of Christ Jesus, shedding His Blood, and Covering the SHAME of our naturally born FLESH BODY of SIN.

    EX 32 reveals "THEY" knew in the OT, a mans flesh body NAKED, before others, was a SHAME of SIN unto a man.

    EX 32:
    [25] And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shameamong their enemies

    I KNOW, MY FLESH BODY, has NOT been "changed" from a body of sin.
    I KNOW, I gave my BODY to Spiritually be CRUCIFIED.......and is Spiritually DEAD...IN Christ....and my physical body is still naturally alive....YET FORGIVEN AND COVERED AND DEAD IN CHRIST....waiting to be RAISED UP in a NEW GLORIFIED BODY, that is VOID of SIN.

    So...I HAVE NO DEBATE with BOL...

    I FLAT OUT HAVE A BEEF WITH HIM, making up LIES, and SAYING "HIS MADE UP LIES", are WHAT I HAVE CLAIMED.

    I KNOW the difference between HAVING...
    Forgiven and Covered Sin....
    AND
    COMMITTING Sin.

    I have never made the claim "to HAVE" no sin, as BOL LIES, and said I said that, BUT yet can not QUOTE ME SAYING THAT.

    MY natural born SIN, did not disappear...
    My natural born SIN, is Darkness, and IS Forgiven and Covered with Gods LIGHT, (which overcomes darkness)..

    MY "COMMISSION OF SIN" of disbelief...was AGAINST GOD....."NOT other men, according to a Jewish Law".

    God forgave me......NOT Jewish men, and NOT Gentile men.

    As far as TRESPASSES....absolutely, men can trespass AGAINST me...and I AGAINST them.

    I can forgive them their Trespasses Against me...and I can ask for them to forgive my Trespasses AGAINST THEM.

    I can NOT SIN Against any man....
    Nor can Any man SIN Against me.

    I can NOT FORGIVE ANY man of SIN...
    Nor can Any man FORGIVE me of SIN.

    SIN "according" to the LAW, defined sin of men against God.......AND sin of men against men.

    I was not or am not Under the Law.

    When BOL spouts off, wagging his tongue, pointing his finger proclaiming this person or that person is COMMITTING a SIN....according to WHAT can a person COMMIT SIN? The Law? Ask BOL what law, and he tucks tail and runs or diverts to another point. He's stuck. He can not identify the law, and then claim he is not under the law so he wiggles around, making more false claims for others.

    This thread was BOL'S challenge and opportunity to VERIFY HIS CLAIMS...whereby HE CLAIMS other people say this or that....
    PER his USUAL, BOL FAILED.
    He could not ONCE in 28 PAGES of posts...quote me SAYING, what "he claimed" I said.

    There is NO DEBATE between BOL and myself.
    He has his beliefs, I have mine.

    What BOL is doing in this thread is revealing post after post, HE MAKES FALSE and UNVERIABLE CLAIMS for and against other people.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  3. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting.
    BOL was NOT challenging you believing Jesus was HUMAN.
    BOL WAS challenging you NOT believing Jesus' HUMAN "nature"...

    And, BOL, made that challenge TO YOU, in a fashion that IMPLIED....that I 'did not believe in Jesus' Human "nature".

    WHERE have I posted about "Jesus' HUMAN...."NATURE" ? I haven't!

    Again BOL, LIES.

    He can not COMPREHEND being forthright about what IS SAID.

    Jesus was Manifested in the "LIKENESS" as a man ON EARTH....Of course He displayed and men observed Jesus' mimicking the NATURE of an Earthly man....NOT an angel, NOT an animal, NOT a plant.

    But to BOL's point of "HUMAN"..."NATURE"...
    You replied...You do believe Jesus was "HUMAN'.

    I don't. And since BOL can not answer...maybe you can:

    Do you see a difference between...
    Being a Human man
    And
    Being in the "LIKENESS as" a Human man?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  4. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Going back to your comment...
    AND
    Your Reference....OT Law.

    How does that apply to a man NOT under the OT Law?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    ALL sin is willful disobedience.
    there is NO such thing as "accidental" sin. You cannot sin unless you have full knowledge of what you are doing.

    Jesus told the Pharisees:
    John 9:41
    "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

    If you are ignorant of the fact that something is sinful - then you have NOT sinned.
     
  6. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    No - Catholics teach Biblical truth.
    Jesus was a human being (Heb, 2:17-18) - AND God (John 1:1).

    If He's not - then the Resurrection doesn't help YOU at all.
    It was significant mainly because it showed God's power over HUMAN death.

    PS - NOT sure why you keep erroneously using "Thee" instead of "The".
    "Thee" means "You" in Old English . . .
     
  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying how God looks at sin, not the false teachings of some denominations. I'm not a denominationalist. You possibly got that from your Catechism.
     
  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Ummmmm, yes - you did.
    Forgiven + no more sin = SIN Free.

    That's what YOU have claimed.
    1 John 1:8 says you are lying . . .
     
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    No - I gave you Biblical proof.
    That came from the Bible - not the Catechism . . .
     
  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Num 14:22 expressly mentions men TEMPTING GOD 10 Times.

    Num 14:[22] Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

    But then one must understand....the world TEMPT.

    TEMPTING is the act of a TEMPTER, trying to get an other to YEILD TO "THEM".

    Men did that TO God...

    Satan did that TO Jesus...

    That is the ACT of a TEMPTER.

    God DID NOT Yield to the Tempters..ie men.

    Jesus DID NOT yield the the Tempter..ie Satan.

    God used the opportunity to TEACH...
    For men TO NOT Tempt God...

    Jesus used the opportunity to TEACH...
    HOW men can Deal with a TEMPTER.

    Eve did NOT KNOW "HOW TO" deal with a Tempter..(in the garden) ..SHE Focused her attention ON him, Listened to him, engaged in conversation with him, began considering what he was TEMPTING her to do, and finally SHE reached out and took the fruit she was forbidden to Look up or Eat....and she did both. SHE fell into Temptation of a Tempter.

    Jesus showed HOW TO DEAL WITH A TEMPTER...and first of all...to NOT become swayed to "consider" what a Tempter says...

    BOL routinely attempts to "TEMPT" people...
    For example...He says Jesus was a "HUMAN" man. BOL gives his reasoning...born of a woman....has Mary's DNA....blah, blah...

    THAT is not TEMPTING ME TO CONSIDER BELIEVING what BOL says.

    Then BOL tries the BULLY TACTIC...snarking name-calling.

    Then BOL tries the DECEIT TACTIC....making up FALSE CLAIMS for other people.

    NONE of that HAS TeMPTED ME TO CONSIDER BOL's claim that Jesus IS a HUMAN man.

    his being a Tempter toward me...has failed...

    I said Jesus is Spirit...and YOU responded implying "i MUST THEREFORE" be a Gnostic.

    I never claimed to be a "Gnostic"... So why would you MAKE that implication?

    I'm sure there are catholics, and Mormons, and Jews who believe Jesus is Spirit....but why would anyone call me or IMPLY I am any of those things....without me claiming that for myself?

    Why did you not simply say WHY you believe Jesus IS NOT Spirit? Or WHY you believe Jesus IS A Human?

    Do you believe, Humans all come from Dust and RETURN TO DUST ? I do. And scripture says so.

    Scripture says nothing about Jesus Coming from DUST or RETURNING to DUST.

    Scripture EXPRESSLY says...Jesus came forth OUT FROM GOD.
    Scripture EXPRESSLY says...Jesus RETURNED to God.

    John 16
    [27] ...I came out from God.

    John 16
    [28] I came forth from the Father...

    Jesus said he was leaving this world and GOING to the Father, whom Jesus repeatedly mentions was IN Heaven.

    John 19
    [28] ... I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    I surely DO NOT believe, Jesus CAME from DUST or RETURNED to DUST....

    Yet I surely DO Believe, "HUMAN" men, Come from Dust and Return to DUST.

    You have not shown an Scripture to the CONTRARY....of a HUMAN MAN coming FORTH out from God, and then RETURNING to God.

    No issue with me if you think Jesus IS HUMAN, but why try to LABLE ME, instead of provide your evidence for what you believe?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    THAT IS YOUR WORDS YOUR CLAIM dunce.

    NOT ONCE have I made THAT UTTERY IGNORANT CLAIM.

    THAT IS YOUR LIE dunce.

    IF THAT WAS "MY" claim dunce...YOU could quote me making that claim...YOU CAN'T...

    ALL you can DO is REPEAT "YOUR own words over and over and over".

    I have claimed......IN MY WORDS...
    I was naturally born in SIN and committed SIN against God...

    WHAT "UtTERLY IGNORANT MORON".would pipe up and say....wow, that is a person CLAIMING TO HAVE NO SIN......??

    You have made it EXPRESSLY CLEAR, WHO WOULD pipe up and say....
    A man who says he was naturally born in SIN and Committed SIN against God....is a man claiming to HAVE NO SIN......LOL

    WHO? IS YOU!

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  12. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Read Numbers 15:22-36 if you want to know what our schoolmaster teaches on how God views the two types of sin. 1 John 5:16-17. One can be covered with a sacrifice, but the other, they were immediately killed for lawlessness - against the law. Notice the sacrifice covers UNINTENTIONAL SINS. So, no, not all sin is willful, or even known to us. And the blood of Jesus keeps cleansing them as we walk in the Spirit. 1 John 1:7.
     
  13. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    That's awesome....your Lord and Savior IS A CREATED HUMAN MAN...<---LOL

    My Lord God Almighty and Savior is SPIRIT without beginning or ending.

    Not news, since that was establshed a long time ago.

    What has not been established, in 29 pages of posts....is you quoting me with your words.

    But then that would be impossible for you, since I never said what you keep trying to say for me.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    In case you haven't noticed - we aren't living under the Law.

    What might have been considered an infraction of the Law doe NOT apply to us. You should know that. The Mosaic Law has been FULFILLED in Christ (Matt. 5:17).

    ALL sin is willful disobedience against God.
    Stealing a pencil is not the same as adultery or murder - but they are BOTH intentional.
     
  15. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Then you worship a different Christ than the Biblical one.
    It's that simple.
     
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Trespasses are still in the New Covenant, as are willful sins, but they are not the same. Where do we learn what is adultery? Or what is homosexuality? The Old Testament, so if you throw it out, you become ignorant of the definitions of anything God hates. And if you try to interpret 1 John 5:16-17 you will only come up with human guesswork based on human reasoning, instead of what is clearly written in the Old Testament - our tutor. It has nothing to do with not being under the law. It still shows us how God thinks. If you can't understand the Old Testament, you'll never understand half of the New Covenant.

    Look BOL, the reason why I'm still answering your posts is because I think there is hope for you. If you can accept the Catholic doctrines, you can also accept the Bible. At least you're not on a planet of make-believe cheese. But I will only do this if I see signs you are developing an open mind and want more and more of God. If not, oh well...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    You are quoting yourself Dunce! LOL

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  18. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Of course we worship a different Christ.
    Your Catholic Christ is a HUMAN.
    My True Christ is SPIRIT.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  19. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Your words, your claims, your lies...

    Nothing new.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  20. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    Would add;

    Trespasses:
    Any man could/(OT)...can / (NT)...can / (via civil laws) Trespass against another man.

    Willful sin;
    Scripture reveals having Knowledge of the Word of God, and rejecting that Knowledge as Truth, is Wilful sin.

    Heb 10:26
    Numb 15:31

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
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