BREAKING OF BREAD

[marksman]

Hmmmm.....I cant find anything on the internet to back up what you are saying. Can you provide me a link?

Thank you in advance.....Mary

It is there in the original Greek. I don't use the internet for sourcing original Greek. I use the original Greek.

 

[DPMartin]

My posts were an exegesis of 1 Corinthians 11, not a general discussion of bread and wine.

so, what makes you think they are not related? tunnel vision is for tv viewers, not readers of scripture.

 

[Marymog]

! Corinthians 11 is Paul setting out expected behaviour when the church came together for a meal. As I said, the bread/sip idea was unknown to them.

Thank you.

So in VS 23-26 you don't think Paul is talking about The Last Supper meal? You think he was talking about the yearly Passover meal? Fascinating....I have never heard this interpretation before. And YOU (or WHO) came up with this interpretation?

I think a hole in your theory is VS 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

HOW can anyone eat/drink judgment upon themselves at a yearly Passover meal that contains everyday food?

 

[Marymog]

It is there in the original Greek. I don't use the internet for sourcing original Greek. I use the original Greek.

You read Greek..... I would love to learn it myself. From whom did you learn it?

All I am asking is for you to point me to a website that can back up your translation. SURELY....out of the millions of websites on the internet there is ONE that can back up what you are saying?

Patient Mary

PS....Didn't you also tell me you read 60 books on NT times/writings but couldn't even name 1 of those books that you read?? I am becoming suspicious of your claims.

 

[Marymog]

What 1 Corinthians makes very clear is that it was a feast.

Absolutely not true....that is YOUR interpretation. Can you name ONE person, church, group etc. that has the same interpretation as YOU?

Mary

 

[marksman]

You read Greek..... I would love to learn it myself. From whom did you learn it?

All I am asking is for you to point me to a website that can back up your translation. SURELY....out of the millions of websites on the internet there is ONE that can back up what you are saying?

Patient Mary

PS....Didn't you also tell me you read 60 books on NT times/writings but couldn't even name 1 of those books that you read?? I am becoming suspicious of your claims.

I learnt it from myself.

Go find it. When I started the study, the Internet had not been invented. My website is the myriad of notes that I have collected from all over the place, including sermons, teaching, Bible College, university, and my own personal library which numbers over 1,000 books. Before I retired I was buying at least a book a week. That, however, pales into insignificance because a friend of mine has 7,000 books in his library.

Books.
The New International Dictionary of the Bible
The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
The Bible Background Commentary of the New Testament
Literal Translation of the Bible
The New American Bible
The New International Version of the Bible
The Message
NIV Naves Topical Bible
Lexicon of Biblical Greek
The 10 Commandments for Jews, Christians, and Others
The Four Gospels by William Stob.
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus
Josephus
Renewal Theology
Encyclopedia of Difficult Passages
Kingdom of Priests
Institutes of Biblical Law
Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible
Evangelical Dictionary of the Bible
Going to Church in the First Century
Heresies
Reimagining the Church
The Church
A History of the Jewish People at the Time of Christ
Eight Volume History of the Christian Church
And so on and so on

The rest are still packed away as I have moved house.

 

[Philip James]

Well, there is the problem. I wasn't doing an exegesis of John 6. I was covering 1 Corinthians 11.

How is that a problem? John 6 and 1Cor11 go hand in hand.

Here' a little from Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, who learned these things directly from the apostles:

"They abstain
from eucharist (thanksgiving) and prayer, because they
allow not that the eucharist is the flesh of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our
sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up.

They therefore that gainsay the good gift of God
perish by their questionings. But it were expedient
for them to have love, that they may also rise again."

- to the Smyrneans circa 100 AD

Peace be with you!

 

[marksman]

Absolutely not true....that is YOUR interpretation. Can you name ONE person, church, group etc. that has the same interpretation as YOU?

Mary

I am not going to get into a slanging match Mary. I believe what I believe because I have worked very hard at unravelling scripture for many years

You could say that I have spent a lifetime of learning because I was born again when I was 11 years old in a little wooden Baptist Church in a little country town. They didn't set the world on fire but they did instill a desire to study the scriptures and seek out the truth for which I am eternally grateful.

Being autistic, study is second nature to me and I am content to follow the lead until I find what I am looking for. That means I search out various viewpoints until I know that I have the one that is the most authentic. When you know Greek it makes it easier to find the authentic one.

 

[marksman]

How is that a problem? John 6 and 1Cor11 go hand in hand.

Here' a little from Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, who learned these things directly from the apostles:

"They abstain
from eucharist (thanksgiving) and prayer, because they
allow not that the eucharist is the flesh of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our
sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up.

They therefore that gainsay the good gift of God
perish by their questionings. But it were expedient
for them to have love, that they may also rise again."

- to the Smyrneans circa 100 AD

Peace be with you!

They may go hand in hand but I wasn't doing an exegesis of John 6. When I was in Bible College one of the lecturers did an exegesis of the gospel of John. Not once did he mention 1 Corinthians 11.

 

[marksman]

Thank you.

So in VS 23-26 you don't think Paul is talking about The Last Supper meal? You think he was talking about the yearly Passover meal? Fascinating....I have never heard this interpretation before. And YOU (or WHO) came up with this interpretation?

I think a hole in your theory is VS 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

HOW can anyone eat/drink judgment upon themselves at a yearly Passover meal that contains everyday food?

I have no idea who came up with it originally. I first heard of it about 50 years ago from someone who was a lecturer at Cambridge University and had degrees in Hebrew and Greek. He taught linguistics to the students.

As I explained they eat judgment to themselves by ignoring the believers who could not provide something for the feast and started eating and drinking regardless. You have to realise that the setting of the meal is quite different from what we experience today. For example, I have never been in a church that has slaves in attendance. The majority of churches in western countries can provide enough for everyone. Anyway, that is my experience.

 

[marksman]

so, what makes you think they are not related? tunnel vision is for tv viewers, not readers of scripture.

I never said that they are not related. But as one who is a teacher, I focus on teaching what I want the students to learn. I don't wander all over the place to pad out the sermon because I don't have much to say about the original topic. As I was taught in Bible College, tell them what you are going to say, say it and then tell them what you have said.

Autistic people tend to be very concise in what they say and write and are not interested in being drawn away with red herrings.

 

[Philip James]

They may go hand in hand but I wasn't doing an exegesis of John 6. When I was in Bible College one of the lecturers did an exegesis of the gospel of John. Not once did he mention 1 Corinthians 11.

Hello marksman,

And yet you assert:

In verses 24 and 25 when he said it was his body and blood, those present would know that it was not literally his body and blood because Jews were forbidden to eat human flesh and drink human blood. So that puts paid to Catholic teaching on the subject.

You have no basis, in the text, to assert that.
You say 'they were forbidden' to eat and drink, while John 6 shows they were commanded to eat and drink His flesh and blood.

You cannot make such an assertion based solely on the text of 1Cor 11

Peace!

 

[marksman]

Hello marksman,

And yet you assert:


You have no basis, in the text, to assert that.
You say 'they were forbidden' to eat and drink, while John 6 shows they were commanded to eat and drink His flesh and blood.

You cannot make such an assertion based solely on the text of 1Cor 11

Peace!

As it is my thread, I can say whatever I want so I said what I wanted to say. You are quite free to start another thread and say what you want to say.

Can you show me how they ate his flesh and drank his blood bearing in mind that they were forbidden to do so?

 

[marksman]

Hello marksman,

And yet you assert:


You have no basis, in the text, to assert that.
You say 'they were forbidden' to eat and drink, while John 6 shows they were commanded to eat and drink His flesh and blood.

You cannot make such an assertion based solely on the text of 1Cor 11

Peace!

I did not say they were forbidden to eat and drink. I said they were forbidden to eat human flesh and drink human blood.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus said do THIS

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luk 22:19-20 KJV)

In this simple act they remembered Christ's bruised, battered, beaten body, and his shed blood. That was his last wish and commandment and that is how it should be done. I believe we should do like Jesus tells us. If other people want to do it differently, that is their lookout. There is nothing else to discuss.
.

 

[marksman]

Jesus said do THIS

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luk 22:19-20 KJV)

In this simple act they remembered Christ's broken body and shed blood. That was his last wish and command and that is how it should be done. If other people want to do it differently, that is their lookout. There is nothing to discuss.
.

One. his body was not broken. it was traditional that if a person who was on a cross had not died by a prescribes time, the Roman soldiers would break their legs to bring on death. Jesus had died so they did not break his legs so his body was not broken for us.

Judging by your comment it seems that you have not read what I have taught on the subject or very little of it, but if you have, you have chosen to ignore what I have said which is backed up by scripture.

As for your comment that this is how it should be done can I ask what should be done?

I am not impressed with trite comments that have no substance to them.

 

[Cooper]

One. his body was not broken. it was traditional that if a person who was on a cross had not died by a prescribes time, the Roman soldiers would break their legs to bring on death. Jesus had died so they did not break his legs so his body was not broken for us.

Judging by your comment it seems that you have not read what I have taught on the subject or very little of it, but if you have, you have chosen to ignore what I have said which is backed up by scripture.

As for your comment that this is how it should be done can I ask what should be done?

I am not impressed with trite comments that have no substance to them.

You are adding to scripture.
.

 

[Marymog]

I learnt it from myself.

Go find it. When I started the study, the Internet had not been invented. My website is the myriad of notes that I have collected from all over the place, including sermons, teaching, Bible College, university, and my own personal library which numbers over 1,000 books. Before I retired I was buying at least a book a week. That, however, pales into insignificance because a friend of mine has 7,000 books in his library.

Books.
The New International Dictionary of the Bible
The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
The Bible Background Commentary of the New Testament
Literal Translation of the Bible
The New American Bible
The New International Version of the Bible
The Message
NIV Naves Topical Bible
Lexicon of Biblical Greek
The 10 Commandments for Jews, Christians, and Others
The Four Gospels by William Stob.
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus
Josephus
Renewal Theology
Encyclopedia of Difficult Passages
Kingdom of Priests
Institutes of Biblical Law
Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible
Evangelical Dictionary of the Bible
Going to Church in the First Century
Heresies
Reimagining the Church
The Church
A History of the Jewish People at the Time of Christ
Eight Volume History of the Christian Church
And so on and so on

The rest are still packed away as I have moved house.

Thank You marksman

That is quit a list. I believe I now know where you got your idea that NT Christians gathered for a ‘supper’ instead of participating in The Last Supper in remembrance of Him. GOING TO CHURCH IN THE FIRST CENTURY BY ROBERT BANKS? Was that your biggest influence?

Also, I have tried multiple translation websites and searched many different opinions on your theory that eat = meat in Greek. I just can’t find ANYONE that agrees with you. Can you help me out and suggest a book or website that backs up your translation?

Thank your for your time.

 

[Marymog]

I am not going to get into a slanging match Mary. I believe what I believe because I have worked very hard at unravelling scripture for many years

You could say that I have spent a lifetime of learning because I was born again when I was 11 years old in a little wooden Baptist Church in a little country town. They didn't set the world on fire but they did instill a desire to study the scriptures and seek out the truth for which I am eternally grateful.

Being autistic, study is second nature to me and I am content to follow the lead until I find what I am looking for. That means I search out various viewpoints until I know that I have the one that is the most authentic. When you know Greek it makes it easier to find the authentic one.

That’s what I thought....thank you.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I learnt it from myself.

Go find it. When I started the study, the Internet had not been invented. My website is the myriad of notes that I have collected from all over the place, including sermons, teaching, Bible College, university, and my own personal library which numbers over 1,000 books. Before I retired I was buying at least a book a week. That, however, pales into insignificance because a friend of mine has 7,000 books in his library.

Books.
The New International Dictionary of the Bible
The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
The Bible Background Commentary of the New Testament
Literal Translation of the Bible
The New American Bible
The New International Version of the Bible
The Message
NIV Naves Topical Bible
Lexicon of Biblical Greek
The 10 Commandments for Jews, Christians, and Others
The Four Gospels by William Stob.
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus
Josephus
Renewal Theology
Encyclopedia of Difficult Passages
Kingdom of Priests
Institutes of Biblical Law
Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible
Evangelical Dictionary of the Bible
Going to Church in the First Century
Heresies
Reimagining the Church
The Church
A History of the Jewish People at the Time of Christ
Eight Volume History of the Christian Church
And so on and so on

The rest are still packed away as I have moved house.

Hi MM,

A book I am reading now is The Earliest History of the Christian Gathering by Valeriy A. Alikin

Have you read that one? Very well researched.