Calvinism is a Cult

[Dave L]

That's because John Calvin basically adopted the theology of Augustine wholesale. In fact, it was called "Calvinistic Augustinianism" when it first started to be popularized. Augustine spent much of his life as a pagan before his conversion. It may have affected his theology but I suspect that Augustine's theology was even more affected by the fact that he did not speak Greek (as the early church fathers did) and that Augustine used an inferior Latin text of the Bible as the source for his theology. The Eastern Orthodox do not accept a number of Augustine's teachings. Among them would be Augustine's notion that Original Sin sent babies to hell. If there was ever a curse of Original Sin on babies, it was removed by the Blood of Christ. Saying that infant baptism would prevent infants and young children from going to hell, was, in my opinion, a sop to the many millions of parents who lost babies and young children during that period. No babies go to hell, baptized or not.

Do you think abortion is good since it sends babies to heaven whom the majority of would reject Christ if they grow up?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you think abortion is good since it sends babies to heaven whom the majority of would reject Christ if they grow up?

Yes! Sadly, in their stance, abortion becomes the kindest thing parents could do. By aborting babies, they’re filling heaven with babies.

 

[Dave L]

Yes! Sadly, in their stance, abortion becomes the kindest thing parents could do. By aborting babies, they’re filling heaven with babies.

There have been some "crazy" moms kill their kids believing this false doctrine. And will probably be many more.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There have been some "crazy" moms kill their kids believing this false doctrine. And will probably be many more.

Sad, but true. I am not saying babies go to hell, but babies are not born innocent, but guilty in Adam.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Don't you believe that someone has a choice to be saved or not? If so, how is that god alone saving someone?

The Bible tells us that no one can come to Jesus if that person is not called by the Father. It further says that the way to the Father is only through Jesus. It also says that Jesus is the "author and finisher of our faith". Our only responsibility is to receive the free gift of faith. But, if we turn away from all that God has done to effect our salvation (like the Rich Young Ruler--and you, if you are telling the truth) then, there is no more remedy for sin. I believe that such a one can repent and beg God's pardon, but it is a dicey position that one puts themselves in when they turn their back on Him. After the Rich Young Ruler walked away, Jesus mused that it was quite difficult for a wealthy person to enter the Kingdom of God.

God's justice demands payment for sin. Either Jesus pays for our sin or we will after death. Even in this life, we often pay some price for our sin.

If you are correct, then all children including babies are responsible for their sin and deserve death since it says to kill everyone.

News Flash: NO ONE gets out of here alive. Some die sooner, some later but all die because sin and death was let loose on the planet with Adam's deliberate disobedience. Your system only works if this life is all there is. Jesus said that the "angels" (a way of speaking of someone's soul) of small children "are ever before the throne of God". They are in heaven. And THAT is much better than being raised by horrible heathens.

But, Deuteronomy 20 doesn't say the "Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites" were killed for their sin but so that the Israelites would not learn their ways and sin against god.

So? That is true. Aren't you glad that your parents weren't into child sacrifice? How about the Greco-Roman practice of just placing a superfluous new baby out for the wild animals to drag off, just so they wouldn't have to be bothered with him/her. Thank Jews and Christians for always fighting against this scourge on the planet. Just as they now fight against abortion on demand.

God ordered the killing of all these people so that his chosen people would not sin against him in this way. Even though they were going to sin anyway. Why not just tell the Israelite's not to do these things? Well he did in Duet 18 and I guess he did not trust them to not do them.

He was right not to trust them, wasn't He?

Would this be a reasonable way to stop people from sinning today?

The Bible suggests that, in the Millennial Kingdom, Christ will rule "with an iron rod" that "only sinners" will die at 100. Perhaps instant death will happen to those who violate God's Law in the Millennial Kingdom, which is obviously a mortal kingdom since physical death will be present and it speaks of the "sons" of the "Prince" in the latter chapters of the Book of Ezekiel. If they were resurrected beings, they would not experience death and Jesus says that resurrected beings do not marry (and by extrapolation, they do not have children).

 

[farouk]

The Bible tells us that no one can come to Jesus if that person is not called by the Father.

The various statements by the Lord Jesus in John 6 are indeed very searching.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Do you think abortion is good since it sends babies to heaven whom the majority of would reject Christ if they grow up?

I won't dignify that nauseating accusation with a response.

 

[farouk]

That's because John Calvin basically adopted the theology of Augustine wholesale.

A lot of Reformation era writers and preachers were still very much influenced by Medieval sources. Presbyterians and Lutherans - especially some centuries back - tended to be very much influenced in their thinking by Medieval Scholasticism in one form or another.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yes! Sadly, in their stance, abortion becomes the kindest thing parents could do. By aborting babies, they’re filling heaven with babies.

Only a depraved mind could come up with that kind of reasoning.

 

[Jun2u]

Calvinism, including those on this forum, say that if a baby dies and is not a chosen goes to Hell.
What does the Bible say?

TRUE!!!
Psalms 58:3 reads: “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

Need I say more???

To God Be The Glory

 

[Vince]

Just go to the Bible for answers. I simply quoted what is already there.

Not all. How about these.

salvation by Faith alone verses: Mk 16:16, Jn 3:18, Acts 16:30-31, Romans 1:16-17, 3:20, 4:2, 4:13, 5:1, 10:9, Gal 3:11-12, Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5

salvation by works: Psalm 62:12, Pr 10:16, Ecc 12:14, Jer 17:10, Mt 5:20,12:37,16:27, 19:17, 25:41-46, Lk 10:26-28, Jn 5:29, Ro 2:6, 2 Cor 5:10, 11:15, Jas 2:14, Rev 2:23, 22:14

There are may verses as well that indicate repentance is required and many that do not.

 

[Vince]

It is clear as crystal. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out.

What about babies?

 

[Vince]

The Bible tells us that no one can come to Jesus if that person is not called by the Father. It further says that the way to the Father is only through Jesus. It also says that Jesus is the "author and finisher of our faith". Our only responsibility is to receive the free gift of faith. But, if we turn away from all that God has done to effect our salvation (like the Rich Young Ruler--and you, if you are telling the truth) then, there is no more remedy for sin. I believe that such a one can repent and beg God's pardon, but it is a dicey position that one puts themselves in when they turn their back on Him. After the Rich Young Ruler walked away, Jesus mused that it was quite difficult for a wealthy person to enter the Kingdom of God.

Then we do need to do something to be saved. Receive it. It must be an act or our will because all are not saved.

God's justice demands payment for sin. Either Jesus pays for our sin or we will after death. Even in this life, we often pay some price for our sin.

So babies go to hell to pay for their sins.

News Flash: NO ONE gets out of here alive. Some die sooner, some later but all die because sin and death was let loose on the planet with Adam's deliberate disobedience. Your system only works if this life is all there is.

Then when babies die their sins are not forgiven. They will be in hell for eternity.

Jesus said that the "angels" (a way of speaking of someone's soul) of small children "are ever before the throne of God". They are in heaven.

So there is a special salvation for babies then. There is more than one way to be saved that has nothing to do with the cross.

And THAT is much better than being raised by horrible heathens.

Then why don't you come over and kill my children? I never called you horrible or any other names why do you call me names?

So? That is true. Aren't you glad that your parents weren't into child sacrifice? How about the Greco-Roman practice of just placing a superfluous new baby out for the wild animals to drag off, just so they wouldn't have to be bothered with him/her. Thank Jews and Christians for always fighting against this scourge on the planet. Just as they now fight against abortion on demand.

Or being the scourge on the planet at times. I am against abortion as well.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What does the Bible say?

Seriously? You don't care what it says, you make it say what you want!

 

[farouk]

Seriously? You don't care what it says, you make it say what you want!

There is a big difference between exegesis and isegesis.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

TRUE!!!
Psalms 58:3 reads: “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

Need I say more???

When you can show me a baby, straight from the womb, who is capable of speech, and "spitting venom like snakes," I'll go with your interpretation. This is obvious hyperbole and poetic expression. I believe that David was probably pointing out that those raised in a wicked culture often are influenced to develop that wickedness early on because they are surrounded by wicked people.

 

[CoreIssue]

Don't you believe that someone has a choice to be saved or not? If so, how is that god alone saving someone?

If you are correct, then all children including babies are responsible for their sin and deserve death since it says to kill everyone.

But,

Deuteronomy 20 doesn't say the "Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites" were killed for their sin but so that the Israelites would not learn their ways and sin against god.

"but the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God." Deut 20:17-18 ESV

God ordered the killing of all these people so that his chosen people would not sin against him in this way. Even though they were going to sin anyway. Why not just tell the Israelite's not to do these things? Well he did in Duet 18 and I guess he did not trust them to not do them. Would this be a reasonable way to stop people from sinning today?

Further, as we see with culture like Islam, the children are raised and become their fathers.

 

[CoreIssue]

That's because John Calvin basically adopted the theology of Augustine wholesale. In fact, it was called "Calvinistic Augustinianism" when it first started to be popularized. Augustine spent much of his life as a pagan before his conversion. It may have affected his theology but I suspect that Augustine's theology was even more affected by the fact that he did not speak Greek (as the early church fathers did) and that Augustine used an inferior Latin text of the Bible as the source for his theology. The Eastern Orthodox do not accept a number of Augustine's teachings. Among them would be Augustine's notion that Original Sin sent babies to hell. If there was ever a curse of Original Sin on babies, it was removed by the Blood of Christ. Saying that infant baptism would prevent infants and young children from going to hell, was, in my opinion, a sop to the many millions of parents who lost babies and young children during that period. No babies go to hell, baptized or not.

That is true.

They also taught infant purgatory.

 

[Vince]

Further, as we see with culture like Islam, the children are raised and become their fathers.

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

[CoreIssue]

Unfortunately in several threads many have attempted to get him to offer biblical proof. He has yet to do so, and the requests are generally met with insults, claims he's done so already, or avoidance

And as I responded and read. Your answer lies there.