Calvinism is a Cult

[Lady Crosstalk]

It seems that Pentecost was pivotal as regards the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, but even after that, there were people who were obviously not being guided by the Holy Spirit (see 1 John and the Letters to the Seven Churches in the Book of Revelation). They were either resisting Him or they did not have His indwelling presence.

 

[farouk]

Yes, but even after that, there were people who were obviously not being guided by the Holy Spirit (see 1 John and the Letters to the Seven Churches in the Book of Revelation). They were either resisting Him or they did not have His indwelling presence.

I know what you mean; there needs to be individual obedience, indeed. I was referring really to the general principle of indwelling, which pertains to the church from Pentecost.

 

[Jun2u]

That simply means that God does not change Himself at the request of a human being.

Exactly. And it can be seen in Genesis Chapter 18?

 

[farouk]

Exactly. And it can be seen in Genesis Chapter 18?

A lot of Biblical truth goes back to principles in Genesis.

 

[Jun2u]

I know what you mean; there needs to be individual obedience, indeed. I was referring really to the general principle of indwelling, which pertains to the church from Pentecost.

Many Christians believe the Holy Spirit was first poured out at Pentecost. This is so because of lack from reading the whole Bible.

Psalms 51:11 reads:
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." A prayer of David.

 

[CoreIssue]

Many Christians believe the Holy Spirit was first poured out at Pentecost. This is so because of lack from reading the whole Bible.

Psalms 51:11 reads:
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." A prayer of David.

In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit fell upon some people but not all.

There was an outpouring at Pentecost and there will be another outpouring in the future per Joel.

But there was no baptism of the Holy Spirit until the resurrection of Christ.

Falling on is not the same as indwelling.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Many Christians believe the Holy Spirit was first poured out at Pentecost. This is so because of lack from reading the whole Bible.

Psalms 51:11 reads:
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." A prayer of David.

Scripture makes clear that Pentecost, in Acts 2, was a unique event. But that does not mean that the Ruach ha Kodesh was not present WITH, ON and surrounding the OT saints and prophets.

 

[Jun2u]

Scripture makes clear that Pentecost, in Acts 2, was a unique event. But that does not mean that the Ruach ha Kodesh was not present WITH, ON and surrounding the OT saints and prophets.

How unique was the event of Pentecost? Please elaborate.

 

[farouk]

Many Christians believe the Holy Spirit was first poured out at Pentecost. This is so because of lack from reading the whole Bible.

Psalms 51:11 reads:
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." A prayer of David.

This verse shows that the Spirit did not indwell then, because David asks God not to take His Spirit away, which does not happen to the individual Christian today, after Pentecost.

 

[farouk]

How unique was the event of Pentecost? Please elaborate.

It's when the church started. See Acts 2.

 

[farouk]

Scripture makes clear that Pentecost, in Acts 2, was a unique event. But that does not mean that the Ruach ha Kodesh was not present WITH, ON and surrounding the OT saints and prophets.

Yes, there is indeed this distinction, dispensationally.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

How unique was the event of Pentecost? Please elaborate.

Was there ever a group of devout Jews who were gathered together and had tongues of flames light on their heads in the rest of Scripture? Did any other people group spontaneously speak in languages not their own?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

This verse shows that the Spirit did not indwell then, because David asks God not to take His Spirit away, which does not happen to the individual Christian today, after Pentecost.

Yes. Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit would never leave them.

 

[Jun2u]

[QUOTE="farouk, post: 527269, member: 2355"]It's when the church started. See Acts 2[/QUOTE]
I meant the uniqueness of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In other words, what was the significance of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

 

[farouk]

[QUOTE="farouk, post: 527269, member: 2355"]It's when the church started. See Acts 2

I meant the uniqueness of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In other words, what was the significance of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?[/QUOTE]
The Lord Jesus had ascended to heaven, having promised that the Spirit would come to dwell with them.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I meant the uniqueness of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In other words, what was the significance of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

The Lord Jesus had ascended to heaven, having promised that the Spirit would come to dwell with them.[/QUOTE]

He not only said that the Holy Spirit would dwell with them, He said that the Holy Spirit would be IN them.

 

[farouk]

The Lord Jesus had ascended to heaven, having promised that the Spirit would come to dwell with them.

He not only said that the Holy Spirit would dwell with them, He said that the Holy Spirit would be IN them.[/QUOTE]
Indwelling is so important; salvation if truly there cannot be lost.

 

[CoreIssue]

There is a lot of debate on the beginning of the church and giving of the Holy Spirit.

I believe the church began at the cross. Remember, Israel began when Jacob became Israel. It took time to grow and mature.

Same with the church. The veil wasn't rent at Pentecost, but the cross. As for the Holy Spirit indwelling:

John 20:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

The big question for me is does it really matter exactly when the church began?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

There is a lot of debate on the beginning of the church and giving of the Holy Spirit.

I believe the church began at the cross. Remember, Israel began when Jacob became Israel. It took time to grow and mature.

Same with the church. The veil wasn't rent at Pentecost, but the cross. As for the Holy Spirit indwelling:

John 20:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

The big question for me is does it really matter exactly when the church began?

Interesting question but I suspect that God wanted to reinforce the idea that He was doing something new--that His Salvation was now available to all humans--not just Israel.

 

[OzSpen]

With all the Calvinists and quasi-Calvinists posting I think this thread is necessary.

I agree with the widely held belief Calvinism is a cult.

The God of Calvinism does not resemble the God of the Bible.

The salvation of Calvinism is not biblical. God does not create/appoint some salvation and some to damnation with a total rejection of free will.

That is a short and sweet of it. But these two aspects of Christianity are enough to judge it by.

CoreIssue,

I am not a Calvinist, but to call it a cult is a BIG call.

Would you please define the criteria that make Calvinism a cult?

I notice in your post you provided no Scripture to support your claims

Oz