Calvinism is a Cult

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mjrhealth

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The law doesn't save; however it does have the power to convert the soul through the fact that it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 3:23, But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
What has the law to do with Christ, it was a tutor to the Jews to show them Sin, it has never had anything to do with us gentiles so I cant understnad why it keeps getting brought up.
 

justbyfaith

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Gentiles are "just as wicked as Jews," and also need a schoolmaster to lead them to Christ.

Consider

Rom 2:12, For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

This indicates that the law is something eternal in the heavens. If you sin not knowing the law (as a Gentile), you will still perish for having sinned. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). So you will perish for having transgressed the law, even though you were without law.

Today most Gentiles do know the law and are therefore accountable to it.

The law defines sin for us; if you violate the law therefore, you have sinned and will perish apart from the law if you sin apart from the law, or will be judged by the law if you sin in the law.
 
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mjrhealth

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The law defines sin for us; if you violate the law therefore, you have sinned and will perish apart from the if you sin apart from the law, or will be judged by the law if you sin in the law.
No, it does nothing for us, all the law does is Kill, because by the law, no man can be saved, by the law no man is made righteous, by the law, all men are found sinners and are dead. Us gentiles are not under the law. It is by His word "Jesus" that all men will be judged, and not one single man will get there any other way than Grace.

Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

and he was a Jew, not a gentile.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
 

justbyfaith

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We are certainly not justified by the law; however if we do violate the law it identifies us as sinners if we are under it. And it is not only the Jews who are under the law. The only ones who are not under the law are those who are in Christ.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. It does not say there, that it is a schoolmaster to lead Jews to Christ.

Also, if we love Jesus, we will obey His commandments; and therefore the keeping of His commandments is a test by which we may know whether someone is truly born again. We are not born again through law-keeping; however law-keeping will be the result of being born again.

If you are not under the law but under grace, then sin shall not have dominion over you. Are you not then justified according to the law in due process of time? For sin is the transgression of the law; and therefore if I am set free from sin, I will become a person who does not violate or transgress the law. From a biblical perspective this is not done in order to obtain justification (for that is brought to us through the blood of Jesus, which also sanctifies, Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29), but because I have been justified; and therefore I love the Lord and this results in my desiring to obey Him.

If I don't desire to obey the Lord I should question as to whether or not I am really and truly saved.

If I know that I am saved, then the law cannot condemn me because the blood is applied to all of my sins (past, present, and future) because I am born again. And because I am born again I have an obedient heart of faith, trust, surrender, and love. This will work itself out in a life that is set free from sin; and again, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

Our Lord Jesus, in John 8:31-36, tells us that whom the Son sets free is free indeed; and that the freedom being spoken of is freedom from slavery to sin.

Therefore I consider that the old song that contains the words,

"What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour"

is appropo.

2Co 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 
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mjrhealth

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The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. It does not say there, that it is a schoolmaster to lead Jews to Christ.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

who is the we, the Jews

as for sin

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

it is the Holy Spirit that convicts men of sin, because of unbelief...
 

justbyfaith

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who is the we, the Jews

The "we" is those of us who have been brought to Christ, in context.

it is the Holy Spirit that convicts men of sin, because of unbelief..

Yes; and He uses the law to do it:

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 3:21, Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22, But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23, But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25, But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Let me point out that the word of the Lord does not apply only to certain people; such as Jews or Gentiles. It is not only timeless but it applies to the human soul. So when it says that after faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster, it is saying that we who are saved were once under the schoolmaster, which is identified as the law. If you were never under the schoolmaster you should question as to whether you have really come to faith.

Gal 3:28, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Col 3:11, Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
 

mjrhealth

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The "we" is those of us who have been brought to Christ, in context.
No it is not, He was speaking to the hews who where under the law.

Yes; and He uses the law to do it:
no He does not, if God was to use the law, than men would be bound to spend eternity in his sin and separated from God.

Everything in time has its beginning and its End. The law was given to the Jews by Moses, it was nailed to the cross by Jesus, from than it had no bearing on anyone, From Jesus to know we are under grace, but even grace has its end, and that day will too come with, If my understanding is correct, the 2nd death and final judgement when those who refuse grace will be judged by there works.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And since the law is not by faith it therefore precludes them from grace, since grace is by faith not works.
 
D

Dave L

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We are certainly not justified by the law; however if we do violate the law it identifies us as sinners if we are under it. And it is not only the Jews who are under the law. The only ones who are not under the law are those who are in Christ.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. It does not say there, that it is a schoolmaster to lead Jews to Christ.

Also, if we love Jesus, we will obey His commandments; and therefore the keeping of His commandments is a test by which we may know whether someone is truly born again. We are not born again through law-keeping; however law-keeping will be the result of being born again.

If you are not under the law but under grace, then sin shall not have dominion over you. Are you not then justified according to the law in due process of time? For sin is the transgression of the law; and therefore if I am set free from sin, I will become a person who does not violate or transgress the law. From a biblical perspective this is not done in order to obtain justification (for that is brought to us through the blood of Jesus, which also sanctifies, Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29), but because I have been justified; and therefore I love the Lord and this results in my desiring to obey Him.

If I don't desire to obey the Lord I should question as to whether or not I am really and truly saved.

If I know that I am saved, then the law cannot condemn me because the blood is applied to all of my sins (past, present, and future) because I am born again. And because I am born again I have an obedient heart of faith, trust, surrender, and love. This will work itself out in a life that is set free from sin; and again, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

Our Lord Jesus, in John 8:31-36, tells us that whom the Son sets free is free indeed; and that the freedom being spoken of is freedom from slavery to sin.

Therefore I consider that the old song that contains the words,

"What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour"

is appropo.

2Co 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
How does this differ from Calvinism?
 

justbyfaith

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No it is not, He was speaking to the hews who where under the law.


no He does not, if God was to use the law, than men would be bound to spend eternity in his sin and separated from God.

Everything in time has its beginning and its End. The law was given to the Jews by Moses, it was nailed to the cross by Jesus, from than it had no bearing on anyone, From Jesus to know we are under grace, but even grace has its end, and that day will too come with, If my understanding is correct, the 2nd death and final judgement when those who refuse grace will be judged by there works.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And since the law is not by faith it therefore precludes them from grace, since grace is by faith not works.
I am not going to argue with you...you have to argue with the scriptures and with the Lord, not me.
 

Laish

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With all the Calvinists and quasi-Calvinists posting I think this thread is necessary.

I agree with the widely held belief Calvinism is a cult.

The God of Calvinism does not resemble the God of the Bible.

The salvation of Calvinism is not biblical. God does not create/appoint some salvation and some to damnation with a total rejection of free will.

That is a short and sweet of it. But these two aspects of Christianity are enough to judge it by.
Ok you made your opening thesis now present your evidence.
You can start by defining cult and who are the folks that hold this belief. ( Note also just because somthing is a widely held belief dose not make it so . Example most folks in the world do not believe that Jesus is The Way . So if you believe that somthing is a widely held belief adds some validity. what do with that fact most folks don’t believe in God of the Bible. )
Still I will be satisfied with who are the ones that hold this belief and what is a cult .
Blessings
Bill
 
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Laish

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Yes, one could certainly call it it that, since rarely will a Calvinist admit that he/she is in error. And it is purely through brainwashing that people (saved individuals) arrive at these unbiblical doctrines.

GALATIANS 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Actually I was raised atheist and the only thing that led me to a Reformed theological point of view was a Bible and a dictionary along with prayer. Their were other things but that is the basics. No brain washing .
Blessings
Bill
 

Laish

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Late for the arguement again!

Look, I just want to make some points and I'd like them to be acknowledged! I dislike false representation.

John Calvin was not a Calvinist! I have read his work. Not all of it, but enough of it. If you blame me for not reading it all, then you read it all then get back to me.

The fact is that he wrote so much that a scholar would be busy for 8 years to get it all down. If you doubt me, google his catalogue.

Dozens of books and literally thousands of chapters. Yet it is 3 chapters of one book that gave birth to "Calvinism". Not that those 3 chapters support the tenets of Calvinism or his works (writings) as a whole do.

But like Martin Luther, students far removed from his teaching era isolated and corrupted what he taught.

As for John Calvin... He was a brilliant theologian whose sharp tongue reminds me of Tertilkian, Luther and at times even Augstine. I admire him for that, but I find fault with his actions. He'd curse the Pope on Sunday and hob-knob with is men on Wednesday. He was a hypocrite.

But make no error on this... Calvinism is not what John preached.
Who did Calvin hob knob with ? I have read a bit on his life I know he was not just preaching on Sunday he preached 7 days a week. The early Reformed Churches were open for services 7 days a week . I also know he had many Catholic aquatints his belief that even though they were heavily burdened by false dogma there was still the possibility of salvation.
As for priests and the type Calvin did believed they were from the pits of hell .
Not being argumentative just wondering. Always looking to see where things come from .
Blessings
Bill
 
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Laish

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Absolutely.

We are predestined to glorification because of foreknowledge, not because of predetermination.
Ok now I see a issue you are using a Strong’ s concordance. . That is only a backwards definition.
Meaning it only points to what definition the translators used . Not to the entire definition of the word or other possible words that it could mean . Example the word nephesh in the OT occurs over 700 times in the OT and can be translated as throat soul body of a man or animal and a living or dead body
Some times a simple word for word rendering comes up short . Try using a lexicon you will get pages of meaning for one word at times it’s a great help . Note Strong’s is still a good tool but for getting a better understanding of a word not just what the translators believe it said use a lexicon too .
Blessings
Bill
 
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Laish

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Links, posts, interlinear word definitions and Bible verses.
Ok your links are to search results on a search engine. Proves what ? Search is Christianity a cult you can get tons of results as well proves nothing as for interlinear traditions they use only what the translator used you don’t get a in-depth view of the words meaning .
Still looking for your definition of cult and who this large group of folks that believe Calvinism is a cult are .
Blessings
Bill