Calvinism is a Cult

[Dave L]

I agree that works will result from faith. The rest of where I am you already know so I won't repeat it here unless a refresher is needed.

Just that the gospel is far different from OT admonitions aimed at temporal physical promises based on obedience.

 

[Dave L]

I thought it was "Calvinism is a Cult"?

Our conversation was about salvation in view of Calvinism.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I remember seeing an entire book that was written about how Calvinism is weighed against John 3:16 and found wanting, but I never got a chance to read the book. It suffices me to know that there is a book written on the subject.

So, you're happy to remain in blind faith and ignorance? No offense, but that is one of the most ignorant stances I've ever witnessed. No wonder the world mocks Christians as ignorant (and it is correct). No need to help facilitate their notion.

 

[Mjh29]

So, you're happy to remain in blind faith and ignorance? No offense, but that is one of the most ignorant stances I've ever witnessed. No wonder the world mocks Christians as ignorant (and it is correct). No need to help facilitate their notion.

He said she said Calvinism means this and that.... which is enough for most people! Forget actually learning what it teaches!

It gets quite annoying at times, I won't lie.
Then we've got the heretics calling us a cult..... the irony.

 

[CoreIssue]

If God already decided where everyone goes with no freewill involved there is nothing to discuss or debate.

Calvanist want people to accept going to the Lake of Fire for eternity happily.

Of course they think they are going eternity with God.

What arrogance.

 

[charity]

Spiritual warfare is biblical.

'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.'
(Ephesians 6:12)

Hello CoreIssue,

Spiritual warfare is indeed 'Biblical', as you say. However, the object is to establish and maintain the Truth, and not to verbally attack those who hold a different view. For those who hold to the teaching of Calvin, are genuinely convinced of the truth they hold, and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord like yourself: so to seek to undermine their doctrinal basis by attacking them personally is grievous; for they are our brothers and sisters 'in Christ'.

Discussing the doctrines of Calvanism and judging it's Biblical authority is justified, but not at the expense of the 'flesh and blood' who hold them.

This is not intended to be taken personally, by the way, I am not suggesting that you, yourself, use such tactics, but unfortunately many do,

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mjrhealth]

This is not how God saves people. OT law brought only temporal physical well being for obedience and sickness, death, and exile for disobedience.

What on earth are you talking about, you seem to have jumped off a diving board in the shallow end of a pool and bumped your head.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you believe people must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and speak in tongues to be saved?

The real issue is not what @101G (or anyone else for that matter) believes, but what the Bible teaches.

So, you're happy to remain in blind faith and ignorance? No offense, but that is one of the most ignorant stances I've ever witnessed. No wonder the world mocks Christians as ignorant (and it is correct). No need to help facilitate their notion.

Here the implication is that Calvinism isn't Christian. You, who take the stance of Calvinism, define your opponent as a Christian, and observe that Christians are primarily ignorant. This also places you as a persecutor of Christians, in that you identify us as ignorant and therefore not worth listening to. Wouldn't want to be you. For you are either saying that you yourself are either ignorant or else not a Christian. Which one is it?

Then we've got the heretics calling us a cult..... the irony.

Gal 5:15, But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[Dave L]

The real issue is not what @101G (or anyone else for that matter) believes, but what the Bible teaches.



Here the implication is that Calvinism isn't Christian. You, who take the stance of Calvinism, define your opponent as a Christian, and observe that Christians are primarily ignorant. This also places you as a persecutor of Christians, in that you identify us as ignorant and therefore not worth listening to. Wouldn't want to be you. For you are either saying that you yourself are either ignorant or else not a Christian. Which one is it?



Gal 5:15, But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

You are hiding the fact that you and the UPC do not think any are saved unless they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and speak in tongues. A few other quirky doctrines like believing in the trinity will damn the soul etc.

 

[Dave L]

What on earth are you talking about, you seem to have jumped off a diving board in the shallow end of a pool and bumped your head.

The law could never save.

 

[mjrhealth]

The law could never save.

No one ever said it could, except the SDA who seem to persu it with a vengance, what brought you down this path. @amadeus certainly knows it doesnt.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are hiding the fact that you and the UPC do not think any are saved unless they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and speak in tongues. A few other quirky doctrines like believing in the trinity will damn the soul etc.

I don't go that far personally. I do believe that we ought not to take chances on not being baptized in Jesus' Name, but I do not judge as unsaved those who have not received this ordinance. Also, I believe that 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 makes it clear that salvation is not limited only to those who speak in tongues. And as for believing in the Trinity damning the soul, I do not believe that either. I believe in the Trinity myself. I do believe that people can increase in their understanding of the doctrine if they keep the concept on the backburner of their thinking when they are reading their Bibles.

But I know that you will not accept my testimony on this matter, as though I would be untruthful on such issues; because you have some kind of vendetta against me. That vendetta is the reason why you are primarily on ignore. But I will peek in from time to time and answer anything that I desire to answer.

 

[Dave L]

I don't go that far personally. I do believe that we ought not to take chances on not being baptized in Jesus' Name, but I do not judge as unsaved those who have not received this ordinance. Also, I believe that 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 makes it clear that salvation is not limited only to those who speak in tongues. And as for believing in the Trinity damning the soul, I do not believe that either. I believe in the Trinity myself. I do believe that people can increase in their understanding of the doctrine if they keep the concept on the backburner of their thinking when they are reading their Bibles.

But I know that you will not accept my testimony on this matter, as though I would be untruthful on such issues; because you have some kind of vendetta against me. That vendetta is the reason why you are primarily on ignore. But I will peek in from time to time and answer anything that I desire to answer.

I believe you speak conscientiously about what you think is true. If you do not agree with the UPC on their works salvation scheme, that's good enough for me. But it should make you question their other doctrines as well.

 

[Dave L]

No one ever said it could, except the SDA who seem to persu it with a vengance, what brought you down this path. @amadeus certainly knows it doesnt.

So then what's the beef?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Here the implication is that Calvinism isn't Christian. You, who take the stance of Calvinism, define your opponent as a Christian, and observe that Christians are primarily ignorant. This also places you as a persecutor of Christians, in that you identify us as ignorant and therefore not worth listening to. Wouldn't want to be you. For you are either saying that you yourself are either ignorant or else not a Christian. Which one is it?

I said what you stated is ignorant, and it is. That had nothing to do with whether or not you're Christian, nor anything to do with persecution. You have a real hard time with making category errors and comprehension. That said, nothing you've stated follows the line of thinking or our context of discussion. Plainly it was an attack with no basis.

My point to you is spot on: having never read a book, just accepting it as fact since it was written is totally ignorant thinking. This is why I say you help facilitate the world's notion that believers are ignorant.

Here is what you stated:

I remember seeing an entire book that was written about how Calvinism is weighed against John 3:16 and found wanting, but I never got a chance to read the book. It suffices me to know that there is a book written on the subject.

Your last sentence above is blind faith and willful ignorance. Sad to behold and inexcusable in it's disdain for knowledge and truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

No one ever said it could, except the SDA who seem to persu it with a vengance, what brought you down this path. @amadeus certainly knows it doesnt.

The law doesn't save; however it does have the power to convert the soul through the fact that it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 3:23, But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

I said what you stated is ignorant, and it is. That had nothing to do with whether or not you're Christian, nor anything to do with persecution. You have a real hard time with making category errors and comprehension. That said, nothing you've stated follows the line of thinking or our context of discussion. Plainly it was an attack with no basis.

My point to you is spot on: having never read a book, just accepting it as fact since it was written is totally ignorant thinking. This is why I say you help facilitate the world's notion that believers are ignorant.

Here is what you stated:


Your last sentence above is blind faith and willful ignorance. Sad to behold and inexcusable in it's disdain for knowledge and truth.

I guess I am ignorant in that I did not read the book. It didn't belong to me, but I saw it in the hands of another person. Is it not logical to conclude that if there is an entire book devoted to a subject, that the content of the book would indeed contain the information that substantiates the premise of the book?

I do not reject Calvinism based on the information contained in the book; for I never read it. I reject Calvinism (though I hold to POTS) on the basis of other information, which is not based on ignorance.

And insulting my ability to comprehend things is not a very Christian thing to do.

I have looked into the issue of Calvinism extensively by perusing threads on, and participating in threads on the subject where it was being debated. If you want to call me ignorant then go right ahead. I know that I am informed on the subject and that I am also open to any new information that might be able to convince me of the opposing pov.

But really, the hurdle that must be dealt with in that is that Romans 5:2 teaches us that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; while I find that proponents of Calvinism purport that we come to faith because of grace.

And I actually agree, if you take the analogy that Jesus giving you the key to the door that enters into the room we call grace is in itself an act of unmerited favour (grace). It remains that in order to partake of the benefits of the room, we must open the door (Jesus) with the key of faith and enter into the room through the door.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I guess I am ignorant in that I did not read the book. It didn't belong to me, but I saw it in the hands of another person. Is it not logical to conclude that if there is an entire book devoted to a subject, that the content of the book would indeed contain the information that substantiates the premise of the book?

I do not reject Calvinism based on the information contained in the book; for I never read it. I reject Calvinism (though I hold to POTS) on the basis of other information, which is not based on ignorance.

And insulting my ability to comprehend things is not a very Christian thing to do.

I have looked into the issue of Calvinism extensively by perusing threads on, and participating in threads on the subject where it was being debated. If you want to call me ignorant then go right ahead. I know that I am informed on the subject and that I am also open to any new information that might be able to convince me of the opposing pov.

But really, the hurdle that must be dealt with in that is that Romans 5:2 teaches us that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; while I find that proponents of Calvinism purport that we come to faith because of grace.

And I actually agree, if you take the analogy that Jesus giving you the key to the door that enters into the room we call grace is in itself an act of unmerited favour (grace). It remains that in order to partake of the benefits of the room, we must open the door (Jesus) with the key of faith and enter into the room through the door.

Romans 5:2 is written to the converted, not the world at large. You're making another category error and therefore you're not teaching truth with this Scripture. It is then false teaching.

Now, read Romans 5:1, then 5:2. It is written to believers about their state of conversion.

Yes, you are correct, you are ignorant of that book, and made a baseless uninformed conclusion on it, blindly.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 5:2 is written to the converted, not the world at large. You're making another category error and therefore you're not teaching truth with this Scripture. It is then false teaching.

Now, read Romans 5:1, then 5:2. It is written to believers about their state of conversion.

Yes, you are correct, you are ignorant of that book, and made a baseless uninformed conclusion on it, blindly.

What does the word "access" mean to you?

 

[justbyfaith]

I said what you stated is ignorant, and it is. That had nothing to do with whether or not you're Christian,

No wonder the world mocks Christians as ignorant (and it is correct).