Calvinism is a Cult

[Preacher4Truth]

As with a key that Jesus gives you to a door (Himself) that opens into a room called grace; even the key is a gift of grace, but is nothing compared to the grace you will receive once you use the key and enter in through the door and find yourself a partaker of real grace, as it is contained in the room of grace, which you enter in to through the door by using the key that is given to you by Jesus (who is the door).

Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We did nothing for our salvation so your analogy of a key and using it is unbiblical and would be a meritorious salvation, God not getting all the glory as per 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

Then to top that off you take a verse that is descriptive of believers to support your hypothesis and make it a verse about how to get born from above.

Why not just concede and accept the fact that repentance and faith are gifts and that not all men will be granted them? Your previous point was that men had to do something to get to heaven (they had to repent and believe) in order to dismiss the fact Christ did not pay the debt of the sins of each and every person who has ever lived.

 

[Mjh29]

We did nothing for our salvation so your analogy of a key and using it is unbiblical and would be a meretorious salvation, God not getting all the glory as per 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

Then to top that off you take a verse that is descriptive of believers to support your hypothesis and make it a verse about how to get born from above.

Why not just concede and accept the fact that repentance and faith are gifts and that not all men will be granted them? Your previous point was that men had to do something to get to heaven (they had to repent and believe) in order to dismiss the fact Christ did not pay the debt of the sins of each and every person who has ever lived.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ezekiel 36:26 –And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

You only take freely after you are given a new heart by God. Not your choice, Gods. He gives the new heart, and THEN you drink freely.

Proverbs 21:1 -- The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turns it wherever he will.

All hearts are already in his hand. It is His choice to turn them or to not. Only after they are turned can they take freely and respond.

You failed to quote the whole passage:

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

If you are going to be consistent, you should be teaching that sprinkling baptism is the initiation into the faith and that God gives a new heart and a new spirit because of it.

We did nothing for our salvation so your analogy of a key and using it is unbiblical

You say that in the face of the ***biblical*** passage that shows clearly the analogy that I have set forth, if you only take it at face value. It is clear from John 10 that Jesus is the door. Here in

Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It should be clear that faith is the key by which we gain access into the room we call grace; and that Jesus is the door.

I do not understand how you cannot see this, it is as clear as day. Perhaps I need to pray that the Lord removes the blinders off of your eyes so that you can see what is clearly right in front of you. It does remind me of certain scriptures:

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Act 28:26, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

View attachment 5423

Too bad it is false doctrine.

 

[CoreIssue]

Because truth is truth, whether we choose it to be or not.

So, Christ did not die for all sins? Only the unconditional ones?

Truth is truth and you do not have it.

So knock off the evasion and answer the question.

 

[SovereignGrace]

View attachment 5423

I see your meme and raise you this one...

Don’t get me started with memes. Tell’em @Preacher4Truth

 

[justbyfaith]

I see your meme and raise you this one...

Don’t get me started with memes. Tell’em @Preacher4Truth

He should become an Arminian...because John 3:16 refutes Calvinism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

He should...because John 3:16 refutes Calvinism.

Yeah, sure it does. Suuuuuuure.

Okay, we all know John 3:16. You say God loves everybody w/o exception and that is the only plausible definition of world.

Now, the Christ prayed this 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;[John 17]

Soooo, God loves the world, which according to you and many others, means everybody w/o exception. Why is the Christ not asking on behalf(praying) for everybody w/o exception?

I wait for your reply.

 

[Mjh29]

Truth is truth and you do not have it.

So knock off the evasion and answer the question.

Because God commanded me to. That's enough for me, if not for you you may want to go rethink your theology. I mean, you should re think it anyways but still...

Just because you don't agree with the truth doesnt mean I didnt answer


So instead of me answering yet again until you get an answer that pleases you palate, why dont you answer my question?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"justbyfaith,
Hello JBF,
First I want to thank you for having the integrity to stand up and offer your understanding for interaction. I will do my best to close the gap where we might differ as some of the brothers have already started doing.

here is your posts:
[you can start with Limited Atonement.]

okay, let's look together

[Does that not teach that Christ did not die for everyone,]

Correct. Jesus died a Covenant death for all the Father gave to Him.
Keep in mind that everyone limits the atonement. For example Jesus did not die for fallen angels, and not every person is going to be saved.

[but only for a select few?]

No Jesus dies for a multitude that no man can number: gen13
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
This does not seem to be a select few, does it?

[If He did not die for you, then does that not mean that if you call on the name of the Lord, you will not be saved; because He didn't die for you?]

Why worry about something that will never happen? Everyone believing will be saved! God is not surprised when a person believes on Him. There is no such thing as an unbeliever who believes without the Spirit giving a new heart.

[Even if you have an answer for this, I would contend that a lot of confusion could be avoided by not teaching the source of the confusion in the first place.]

When the doctrines of grace are preached by a pastor who believes and understands the teaching it is remarkably clear.

My view of foreknowledge is the biblical one; that God chose us before the foundation of the world according to His foreknowledge of whether we would receive or reject Christ.

Sorry this is 100% wrong.
consider this; From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by WR.Downing
There are two possible bases or foundations for Divine election: foreseen
faith based on a bare foreknowledge [prescience], or a covenant love
grounded in the Divine prerogative and expressed in free and sovereign grace.
The Scriptures reveal that the ultimate cause of Divine election rests in the
depths of Divine love and prerogative. God is never moved or motivated
externally to himself. He is ever motivated from within his own self–
consistency. Should he be mutable due to external causes, he would cease to
be God, and be relative to his creation and subject to some nebulous, external
absolute force such as chance or some impersonal fatalistic principle. The
Scriptures reveal that the Divine choice of sinners to salvation rests in God
alone. This is for the assurance and encouragement of the believer in his
present experience—that he might be assured of the certain and infallible
nature of his salvation, especially in the context of present trials and
opposition (Deut. 4:37; 7:6–7; 10:14–15; Eph. 1:4–5; Rom. 8:28–39; 9:13–
14; 11:33–36).
What of foreknowledge? Divine election based on foreseen faith would be
election by mere foreknowledge [prescience]. The biblical usage must
determine the exact significance of the term. What is the biblical teaching
concerning the foreknowledge of God? Foreknowledge is not synonymous
with omniscience. It is concerned, not with contingency, but with certainty
(Acts 2:23; 15:18; Rom. 8:29–30), and thus implies a knowledge of what has
been rendered certain. Acts 2:23 would make foreknowledge dependent upon
God’s “determinate counsel” by the grammatical construction which
combines both together as one thought with “foreknowledge” referring to and
enforcing the previous term. Foreknowledge is related to the Old Testament
term “to know,” implying an intimate knowledge of and relation to its object
(Cf. Gen. 4:1; Amos 3:2). The passages in the New Testament (Rom. 8:29;
11:2; 1 Pet. 1:2) all speak of persons who are foreknown, implying much
more than mere prescience or omniscience—a relationship that is absolutely
certain, personal and intimate. The only example of things being foreknown is
clearly based on Divine determination (Acts 15:18).
Because Divine election or foreordination to eternal life is grounded in the
immutable character of God, it is infallible. Were it based upon foreseen faith,
mere prescience, or human ability, it would remain fallible and mutable.
Because of its infallible and immutable character, Divine election or
foreordination to eternal life is the source of the greatest comfort,
125
encouragement and perseverance to the believer. This is exactly the way in
which and the reason why this truth is revealed in Scripture! Note especially
the great and glorious statement of the Apostle in Romans 8:28–39. Under
inspiration, he puts this truth in the context of the present promise (v. 28), the
eternal redemptive purpose (v. 29–34), the very worst that believers can
experience (v. 35–36), the redemptive, covenant love of the Lord Jesus Christ
(v. 37) and the infallibility of the Covenant of Grace (v. 38–39).
God has ordained the preaching of the gospel as the means to bring the
elect to faith in Christ in time and experience (Rom. 10:14–15, 17; 1 Thess.
1:4–10; 2:13). He has ordained the means as well as the end. To glory in the
end without fulfilling the means would be inconsistent and sinful by
disobedience. See Questions 139–140. Can you say that you are included in
this number by Divine grace?

[However, in Calvinism, it is by a predetermined choice of God; and foreknowledge of whether we receive or reject Christ has nothing to do with it.]

A correct view of foreknowledge solves most of this supposed confusion

 

[justbyfaith]

Yeah, sure it does. Suuuuuuure.

Okay, we all know John 3:16. You say God loves everybody w/o exception and that is the only plausible definition of world.

Now, the Christ prayed this 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;[John 17]

Soooo, God loves the world, which according to you and many others, means everybody w/o exception. Why is the Christ not asking on behalf(praying) for everybody w/o exception?

I wait for your reply.

A little later, He prays for everyone who will believe on Him through their word...and this is potentially everyone in the world, though we know that not everyone will believe.

But the point being that if someone believes, they will not be excluded from salvation for that God didn't choose them. For it is written,

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This would indicate that if someone comes to Jesus, they will not be rejected, even if, hypothetically, the Father didn't choose them from before the foundations of the world. And this tells me something: that our salvation is not dependent on the Father's choice alone; but that if we come to Jesus we will not be rejected, and therefore it is based on our yes response to the gospel message in coming to Christ.

Because if I come to Christ, the hypothetical situation where the Father didn't choose me would mean that I came to Christ against the Father's will and predetermined choice and He could not reject me because of His promise.

But of course, sound doctrine indicates that God the Father chose us according to foreknowledge of whether we would receive Christ; from the perspective of God's Omniscience of everything that will ever occur throughout the annals of time:

Rom 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1Pe 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[CoreIssue]

Because God commanded me to. That's enough for me, if not for you you may want to go rethink your theology. I mean, you should re think it anyways but still...

Just because you don't agree with the truth doesnt mean I didnt answer


So instead of me answering yet again until you get an answer that pleases you palate, why dont you answer my question?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

He should become an Arminian...because John 3:16 refutes Calvinism.

Not hardly. You really need to think a lot deeper. John 3:16 supports Calvinism.

 

[Dave L]

So whom will you serve God or Man, God or the other god. What has that to do with the law, who is your obedience too, in whom is your faith, faith is obedience, the law is not.

This is not how God saves people. OT law brought only temporal physical well being for obedience and sickness, death, and exile for disobedience.

 

[Dave L]

You have established what you believe and then look to the written scripture for support, instead of looking to God for any necessary understanding and correction:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

You are making works the means of salvation. Works follow those who are saved by faith.

 

[Dave L]

I was not teaching salvation at all. On the contrary!

The topic was about how people are saved.

 

[Mjh29]

I see your meme and raise you this one...

Don’t get me started with memes. Tell’em @Preacher4Truth

MEME WAR!!

 

[justbyfaith]

Not hardly. You really need to think a lot deeper. John 3:16 supports Calvinism.

I remember seeing an entire book that was written about how Calvinism is weighed against John 3:16 and found wanting, but I never got a chance to read the book. It suffices me to know that there is a book written on the subject.

 

[Dave L]

I remember seeing an entire book that was written about how Calvinism is weighed against John 3:16 and found wanting, but I never got a chance to read the book. It suffices me to know that there is a book written on the subject.

Do you believe people must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and speak in tongues to be saved?

 

[amadeus]

You are making works the means of salvation. Works follow those who are saved by faith.

I agree that works will result from faith. The rest of where I am you already know so I won't repeat it here unless a refresher is needed.

 

[amadeus]

The topic was about how people are saved.

I thought it was "Calvinism is a Cult"?