Calvinism is NOT a Cult!

[Dave L]

What I am saying is that you claim superiority for that you think that you don't teach the same "error". You teach it when it suits you; but there is hypocrisy in the works. Total Depravity means that God takes hold of out depravity to get us where we need to be, in order to deliver us from Total Depravity; it does not mean that God predetermines who will not be saved and condemns them by His predetermiined choice.



Rom 11:14, If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

The Bible teaches that God can take hold of sinful things within us and utilize them to bring us to salvation. Have you never read,

Rom 8:28, And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Not only are you bearing thorns; but I am also not preaching a works gospel at all. Calvinism hides behind calling its opponents a works gospel by saying that faith in Jesus is works; however Ephesians 2:8-9 shows clearly that faith and works are mutually exclusive.



I agree...however I would contend that faith is also the catalyst for salvation/regeneration.



Indeed; and it is for His people...who enter in through faith in Him.

To the Calvinist I would ask, can a person be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ?

If not, then faith does not come before salvation. If you say that they can, then your "gospel" is that a man can be saved apart from faith in Jesus; and I would identify that as heresy. For the Bible is clear that believing is essential.

The problem with anything you say JBF is your "oneness" beliefs that rot out any credibility you might otherwise have. We might as well argue with a Muslim or JW. It would go just as far either way. You are a cultist by historic church and bible standards attacking orthodoxy according to biblical standards.

 

[Mjh29]

What I am saying is that you claim superiority for that you think that you don't teach the same "error". You teach it when it suits you; but there is hypocrisy in the works. Total Depravity means that God takes hold of out depravity to get us where we need to be, in order to deliver us from Total Depravity; it does not mean that God predetermines who will not be saved and condemns them by His predetermiined choice.



Rom 11:14, If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

The Bible teaches that God can take hold of sinful things within us and utilize them to bring us to salvation. Have you never read,

Rom 8:28, And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
.
.
.






Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Not only are you bearing thorns; but I am also not preaching a works gospel at all. Calvinism hides behind calling its opponents a works gospel by saying that faith in Jesus is works; however Ephesians 2:8-9 shows clearly that faith and works are mutually exclusive.



I agree...however I would contend that faith is also the catalyst for salvation/regeneration.



Indeed; and it is for His people...who enter in through faith in Him.

To the Calvinist I would ask, can a person be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ?

If not, then faith does not come before salvation. If you say that they can, then your "gospel" is that a man can be saved apart from faith in Jesus; and I would identify that as heresy. For the Bible is clear that believing is essential.

So God can bring people to salvation through fornication and adultery? When someone asks you "What is the quickest way to get faith?" one of the answers is "commit adultery?"

 

[SovereignGrace]

What I am saying is that you claim superiority for that you think that you don't teach the same "error". You teach it when it suits you; but there is hypocrisy in the works. Total Depravity means that God takes hold of out depravity to get us where we need to be, in order to deliver us from Total Depravity; it does not mean that God predetermines who will not be saved and condemns them by His predetermiined choice.

Huh?

Total depravity teaches that man, in his fallen condition, has not the ability to deliver him from his fallen state. That a redeemer is very necessary.

It does not teach that fallen man is as wicked as he possibly can be, but some sure seem to be.

 

[justbyfaith]

It does not teach that fallen man is as wicked as he possibly can be, but some sure seem to be.

Actually it does teach that; see Jeremiah 17:9.

 

[Mjh29]

Actually it does teach that; see Jeremiah 17:9.

So, in light of this, how could you ever believe man can in and of himself come to have faith?

Right..... by being greedy, and doing it solely for the benefits it brings...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Indeed; and it is for His people...who enter in through faith in Him.

To the Calvinist I would ask, can a person be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ?

If not, then salvation does not come before faith. If you say that they can, then your "gospel" is that a man can be saved apart from faith in Jesus; and I would identify that as heresy: for the Bible is clear that believing is essential.

Faith and salvation happen simultaneously. No one is saved w/o faith and no one with faith is not saved. They are mutually inclusive.

 

[justbyfaith]

So God can bring people to salvation through fornication and adultery? When someone asks you "What is the quickest way to get faith?" one of the answers is "commit adultery?"[/QUOTEconviction
If someone commits adultery and then gets pricked in their conscience over their adultery and receives Christ because of it, what does that tell you?

I received Christ over conviction of a grievous sin in my life. If I had no committed that sin, I don't know that I would have come to Christ for forgiveness.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What I am saying is that you claim superiority for that you think that you don't teach the same "error". You teach it when it suits you; but there is hypocrisy in the works. Total Depravity means that God takes hold of our depravity to get us where we need to be, in order to deliver us from Total Depravity; it does not mean that God predetermines who will not be saved and condemns them by His predetermiined choice.

So, not only do you make up what others say and believe, you also make up what God does based on that. Wow. How long have you been practicing this work of the flesh? You know it's called bearing false witness, right? Do you have a verse that justifies your doing do? I bet you do.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Actually it does teach that; see Jeremiah 17:9.

This does not mean that they are as wicked as they possibly can be.

How can this heart believe in God?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Well, it’s off to bed kiddos.

#NightyNight

 

[justbyfaith]

So, in light of this, how could you ever believe man can in and of himself come to have faith?

Right..... by being greedy, and doing it solely for the benefits it brings...

Exactly...and the Lord does not condemn the person for that his faith isn't completely pure and virtuous at the beginning...He is certainly able to purify what is being offered to Him, although it be an imperfect offering.

It seems to me that some Calvinists believe what they do because they want to believe they came to the Lord out of some virtue inherent in them.

Eph 5:13, But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It seems to me that some Calvinists believe what they do because they want to believe they came ot the Lord out of some virtue inherent in them.

Why must you lie?

 

[justbyfaith]

Faith and salvation happen simultaneously. No one is saved w/o faith and no one with faith is not saved. They are mutually inclusive.

Yet some of you say that "a man cannot have faith unless he is regenerated first." And it takes time for a plant to produce fruit.

 

[Mjh29]

That tells me that God choose to open their eyes and draw themselves to Him. I mean, they were perfectly fine committing the act.... what you're saying is they in and of themselves all of a sudden make this wild revelation, and then greedily choose to accept God just for the benefits it brings?

Exactly...and the Lord does not condemn the person for that his faith isn't completely pure and virtuous at the beginning...He is certainly able to purify what is being offered to Him, although it be an imperfect offering.

It seems to me that some Calvinists believe what they do because they want to believe they came ot the Lord out of some virtue inherent in them.

Eph 5:13, But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

So, in all the verses I quoted where the Scriptures clearly state selfishness is wrong..... what they really meant is that it is the best thing that can happen to anyone.... the Bible just didn't know that.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why must you lie?

Ain't lyin'...

Just look at the course of the conversation in this thread alone and you might see where I obtain my observation of the fact that I speak of.

 

[Mjh29]

Why must you lie?

Because truth doesn't agree with his doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

That tells me that God choose to open their eyes and draw themselves to Him. I mean, they were perfectly fine committing the act.... what you're saying is they in and of themselves all of a sudden make this wild revelation, and then greedily choose to accept God just for the benefits it brings?


So, in all the verses I quoted where the Scriptures clearly state selfishness is wrong..... what they really meant is that it is the best thing that can happen to anyone.... the Bible just didn't know that.

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I'm saying that God receives us over our faith in spite of the fact that it is rooted in selfishness...there is nothing good in us that makes God choose us...however when we believe Him when He says that we are evil and repent (because a part of our depraved nature is that our conscience cannot handle it if we do not consider ourselves to be completely virtuous), He honours our faith in that we believe what He says about us and receive his prescribed solution...the Cross.

 

[justbyfaith]

Because truth doesn't agree with his doctrine.

Why must you lie?

 

[Mjh29]

I'm saying that God receives us over our faith in spite of the fact that it is rooted in selfishness...there is nothing good in us that makes God choose us...however when we believe Him when He says that we are evil and repent (because a part of our depraved nature is that our conscience cannot handle it if we do not consider ourselves to be completely virtuous), He honours our faith in that we believe what He says about us and receive his prescribed solution...the Cross.

How can our faith be rooted in Christ and selfishness at the same time?

Matthew 6:22-24

 

[Mjh29]

Why must you lie?

You've shown no proof to support the contrary