CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Marymog]

I had no idea that he was a staff member.

By the way, if you're willing to hear some unsolicited advice...

Don't give the left our language. The masculine pronoun is the proper pronoun to use in English when the actual gender is unknown. "He/She" is just a tacit acceptance of the false premise that English speaking people are misogynistic and bigoted. Don't give them that unearned ground. They'll not be satisfied with it.

In the past I have assumed or thought the person I was communicating with was a man so I would use the word he in my responses to them. They would then say I am a woman so stop calling me he. Soooo I say he/she when I am not sure if they are a man or woman. It has nothing to do with me accepting a false premise. I suppose I could think of a way to be more generic.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Logikos]

Once again, your confusion lies with you equating ones destiny to Gods knowledge of that destiny. They don't equate....

Please respond to the following formal argument....

T = You answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am

1. Yesterday God infallibly believed T. [Supposition of infallible foreknowledge]
2. If E occurred in the past, it is now-necessary that E occurred then. [Principle of the Necessity of the Past]
3. It is now-necessary that yesterday God believed T. [1, 2]
4. Necessarily, if yesterday God believed T, then T. [Definition of “infallibility”]
5. If p is now-necessary, and necessarily (p → q), then q is now-necessary. [Transfer of Necessity Principle]
6. So it is now-necessary that T. [3,4,5]
7. If it is now-necessary that T, then you cannot do otherwise than answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am. [Definition of “necessary”]
8. Therefore, you cannot do otherwise than answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am. [6, 7]
9. If you cannot do otherwise when you do an act, you do not act freely. [Principle of Alternate Possibilities]
10. Therefore, when you answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am, you will not do it freely. [8, 9]

Source

 

[Logikos]

In the past I have assumed or thought the person I was communicating with was a man so I would use the word he in my responses to them. They would then say I am a woman so stop calling me he. Soooo I say he/she when I am not sure if they are a man or woman. It has nothing to do with me accepting a false premise. I suppose I could think of a way to be more generic.

Thanks for the advice.

If someone corrects you then adjust your course based on the new knowledge.

People see what you do and, in this current cultural climate, defaulting to "he/she" is going to be interpreted as a bowing to political correctness.

I matters.

Enough said.

 

[Marymog]

Not going to pick for you umpteen QUOTES from a Scriptural STUDY…that God is ALL KNOWING, PREPARED, and KNOWS everything, every thought, of every man.

You desperately are trying to MAKE Gods ORDER and WAY, secondary to a man.

I never said never wrote never implied and never suggested that God wasn't "ALL KNOWING, PREPARED, and KNOWS everything, every thought, of every man."

That isn't even what this discussion is about.


But, ONCE AGAIN, you show your confusion.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Pre-Knowledge…Pre-Determined are not “wicked, evil, bad” things as you are trying to paint with a broad brush.

Yes they are when Calvin: Predestination

" predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "

God will save who he will and the rest will be barred from access to salvation.

If that does not scare the living daylights out of you it should.

Not matter what happens or what "come to Jesus" moments the bad people... that God made... have they will be barred from access to salvation.... IOW they are barred from ever being born again.

 

[Marymog]

If someone corrects you then adjust your course based on the new knowledge.

People see what you do and, in this current cultural climate, defaulting to "he/she" is going to be interpreted as a bowing to political correctness.

I matters.

Enough said.

I don't keep a list of members on this forum who have corrected me so for me to "adjust course" in a conversation with someone who corrected me 3 months ago is difficult.

I think it is best I just use generic language instead of saying he/she when I don't know if they are a man or woman.

If you knew me, I am the furthest from political correctness.

Enough said.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yup, God intervenes in our lives sometimes. Yup, some church leaders "try to control people".

None of that has to do with a person being predestined to go to hell.

Just saying.

And just to say also, that God doesn't owe anyone eternal life. We will either remain mortal and "perish like the beasts".......or we will inherit eternal life. Not sure at all that hell is a place of suffering forever, but a place to permanently be destroyed. ....place of second death. The wages of sin is death.....the broad way leads to destruction. Also perdition means destruction. Suspect that the idea of being tortured for eternity in hell is an invention of medieval imaginations.

 

[Taken]

Yes they are when Calvin: Predestination

" predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "

God will save who he will and the rest will be barred from access to salvation.

If that does not scare the living daylights out of you it should.

Not matter what happens or what "come to Jesus" moments the bad people... that God made... have they will be barred from access to salvation.... IOW they are barred from ever being born again.

Agree. But not scared, rather prepared according to Gods Order and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I never said never wrote never implied and never suggested that God wasn't "ALL KNOWING, PREPARED, and KNOWS everything, every thought, of every man."

That isn't even what this discussion is about.


But, ONCE AGAIN, you show your confusion.

Not confused that the discussion has developed from what Calvin apparently teaches to what people believe.

Does “pre-determination and pre-destiny” applicable to God and His Knowledge….frustrate you? …put a question mark on Catholics attempting to pray for lost souls in hell?

 

[Logikos]

Yes they are when Calvin: Predestination

" predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "

God will save who he will and the rest will be barred from access to salvation.

If that does not scare the living daylights out of you it should.

Not matter what happens or what "come to Jesus" moments the bad people... that God made... have they will be barred from access to salvation.... IOW they are barred from ever being born again.

Which is why is it, in fact, a "wicked, evil, bad" thing, to use Taken's terminology.

God is just! Therefore, the doctrine of predestination (and typically the doctrine of divine foreknowledge as well), as normally taught, is false.

 

[Marymog]

Not confused that the discussion has developed from what Calvin apparently teaches to what people believe.

Does “pre-determination and pre-destiny” applicable to God and His Knowledge….frustrate you? …put a question mark on Catholics attempting to pray for lost souls in hell?

You ARE confused since OUR discussion has NOT "developed from what Calvin apparently teaches to what people believe" and has NOTHING to do with that.

No, God and his knowledge does not frustrate me. YOU frustrate me because you can't stay on topic.

There is no such thing as an attempt to pray for anyone. Either you do or you don't.

I don't understand you at all.....You make no sense.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Which is why is it, in fact, a "wicked, evil, bad" thing, to use Taken's terminology.

God is just! Therefore, the doctrine of predestination (and typically the doctrine of divine foreknowledge as well), as normally taught, is false.

I accept foreknowledge. Foreknowledge to me just means God knows all.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is the height of spiritual depravity. You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is to believe that God is an unjust, unrighteous, unmerciful, tyrant. The Bible plainly teaches that God's people are justified by faith. They are justified by faith in God and his righteousness.

Paul wrote, "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus., Romans 3:26. It is not possible to believe that God is righteous when he condemns people to hell before they are born. We believe that God and his Son Jesus Christ are righteous and can be trusted. This results in our justification. If you don't believe that God and Jesus Christ are righteous, then you are not a Christian. The God of Calvinism is unrighteous and is depraved. It is not spiritually possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism.

What you believe God is like will be reflected in the way that you live. If you believe that God is merciful, you will be merciful also. John Calvin was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Christians. He was known as the tyrant of Genevia. If you want to know more about John Calvin, google, "The Recorded Atrocities of John Calvin". To say that John Calvin was depraved might be an understatement. Because he was depraved, he invented a depraved religion and named it after himself.

There are dozens and dozens of scriptures that refute Calvinism. The most hated scripture of Calvinism is John 3:16. "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever that believes in him should not perish". They also hate the words "Whosoever" "All" "Everyone" "World". We have a responsibility to preach the Gospel to everyone regardless of what they believe. If you decide to take on these poor lost souls stick with the scriptures and keep your cool.

can you explain when Jesus says to the pharisees they are the children of the devil? Can you explain how God knows all things yet would not know who goes to hell and who is saved? Can you also explain how God knowing the end and having a book a life equates to predestination to hell? the gospel of John tells us that John the Baptizer was sent by God and he was not the product of human will but His. Does that not mean that all life is not ordered/willed by God and that "life" is a creation of God but what God creates, satan counterfeits...

 

[Taken]

Yes they are when Calvin: Predestination

" predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "

God will save who he will and the rest will be barred from access to salvation.

If that does not scare the living daylights out of you it should.

Not matter what happens or what "come to Jesus" moments the bad people... that God made... have they will be barred from access to salvation.... IOW they are barred from ever being born again.

I don’t study Calvin. Don’t know if today’s teaching attributed to Calvin WAS his teaching….and don’t much care.

to me it is not a debatable course regarding Gods Order, Gods way, God all knowing, God having created, prepared, a place with Him, without him, and God full well KNOWING before a man KNOWS, exactly what each and every mans DeSTINY shall be.

Sounds AS IF, some who think “AFTER” their physical death, (having physically Died “AGAINST God”)….there is A ONE MORE CHANCE to receive Salvation….

I don’t believe that…I do believe Every mans Destiny is ALREADY (by God) known, prepared and established for every man.

 

[Taken]

You ARE confused since OUR discussion has NOT "developed from what Calvin apparently teaches to what people believe" and has NOTHING to do with that.

No, God and his knowledge does not frustrate me. YOU frustrate me because you can't stay on topic.

There is no such thing as an attempt to pray for anyone. Either you do or you don't.

I don't understand you at all.....You make no sense.

Don’t much care if you do not understand me. I don’t find there is much you understand of Gods Word.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I don’t study Calvin. Don’t know if today’s teaching attributed to Calvin WAS his teaching….and don’t much care.

to me it is not a debatable course regarding Gods Order, Gods way, God all knowing, God having created, prepared, a place with Him, without him, and God full well KNOWING before a man KNOWS, exactly what each and every mans DeSTINY shall be.

Sounds AS IF, some who think “AFTER” their physical death, (having physically Died “AGAINST God”)….there is A ONE MORE CHANCE to receive Salvation….

I don’t believe that…I do believe Every mans Destiny is ALREADY (by God) known, prepared and established for every man.

I posted the link that was Calvins beliefs.

 

[Taken]

I posted the link that was Calvins beliefs.

Thanks. I’ll stick with Jesus being my teacher.

God Bless You,
Taken

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Thanks. I’ll stick with Jesus being my teacher.

God Bless You,
Taken

I agree... and is one reason I will not go back to weekly attendance of y church.

 

[Marymog]

Don’t much care if you do not understand me. I don’t find there is much you understand of Gods Word.

ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE VERY CONFUSED. What you brought up has NOTHING to do with the topic of our discussion.

There is NOTHING to misunderstand since what you brought up has NOTHING to do with the topic we were discussing!

Shall I repeat it again so you get it????????????????????

And then to be derogatory on top of that?????? Disgusting.......And YOU are a staff member? Part of the "encounter team"? Very very sad!

 

[Taken]

I agree... and is one reason I will not go back to weekly attendance of y church.

Some people find close friendships and comfort in “going” to a Church.

I don’t go to a man-made Church…Rather I am in attendance daily in Christ’s Church, and am content.

Glory to God,
Taken