Calvinism

[farouk]

When discussing issues and doctrine probably the first thing needed is to arrive at a common definition of terms.

“Calvinism”, among other things, is a word that gets tossed around a lot.

Many Baptists consider “Calvinism” to refer to the “Five Points of Calvinism”.

Typically Reformed churches teach one cannot be a Baptist and a Calvinist.

The name “Calvinism” was coined by Lutherans to describe Calvin’s teachings regarding communion.

I do not see where this has been defined before, but I do see that a lack of definition has caused some issues.

I see it two ways.

I think Calvinism (historic Calvinism) is the teaching’ of the Reformed church (Presbyterian). It is based on Calvin’s work and Beza’s classification and exposition of Calvin’s works.

Within Baptist (and often evangelical) circles “Calvinism” usually means an affirmation of the five points of Calvinism. IMHO this should also include Calvinistic presuppositions that are foundational to how Calvinists understand the Five Points (e.g., Penal Substitution Theory; divine retributive justice). So while some have offered Martin Luther (for example) as a Calvinist I’d separate him from the group because of his presentation of the Atonement. I’d not consider myself a Calvinist for the same reason.

But that is just how I would use the term. What does “Calvinism” mean for most here? Is there a common definition?

These days it's got to an Alice in Wonderland situation, with the word meaning whatever people decide they want it to mean, whether to promote it or often to trash it...

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well, Lev 5:15 ain't got a darned thing to do with Grace. If so, then do what that verse says: sacrifice a ram.

If you do that, then do you really have Grace?

Grace put an end to that. Grace covers past, present and future sins.

Otherwise, we are no better off than Judiasm.

I didn't mean it had anything to do with that part of your post about grace. You also implied that all sin is willful. It isn't to God. Grace does not cover present and future sins, only past.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Otherwise, we are no better off than Judiasm.

What was the problem with the law? Do you remember? And why is the New Covenant better? You never answered what the apostles meant by "grace."

 

[farouk]

What was the problem with the law? Do you remember? And why is the New Covenant better? You never answered what the apostles meant by "grace."

I love how grace is such a wondrous theme of Epistles such as Ephesians.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@FHII

Where did you go? Did I scare you away? Can you answer the questions? What does the New Covenant mean by grace, if it isn't a license to sin? Hint: Just the opposite, in fact. And the Scriptures only say our old sins (past) are cleansed. What Scripture backs up Calvinist doctrine that also our present and future sins are already cleansed? What prevents us from going ahead and committing 1000 murders and sexual sins a day? GRACE! But not the Calvinist version of past, present and future sins, so what is grace.

BTW, no need to get all huffy. I was respecting you that you weren't brainwashed into thinking Calvin was infallible. There is hope for you.

Of the old timers, I liked John Wesley, and especially his mother! Wow! She knew her Bible, and taught JW a great deal.

 

[FHII]

You also implied that all sin is willful. It isn't to God.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter to God. It's still a sin. It's still a transgression whether it's willfully or not. Proof? Something still had to die to atone it.

Grace does not cover present and future sins, only past

Well then what does the death of Jesus have that's more valuable than that of bills and Bullock's?

Hebrews 10 explains and compares the two. When a bull died, it covered past sins. But when Jesus died, it covered all sins once and for all. His one offering perfected forever them that are sanctified by his offering.

Jesus is better than a bull or Bullock.

What was the problem with the law?

If was not faultless.

Do you remember?

Yes, my mind was stirred up to remembrance.

And why is the New Covenant better?

Well, for many reasons, but I will just say cause God said it was... I will argue with you, but not God... He's a bit more than I can handle.

You never answered what the apostles meant by "grace."

You never asked. And frankly, it's nothing more than a distraction. It's nothing more than something for you to deflect the conversation away from what you can't answer.

You never asked me what I thought they meant by gràce, but you never defined it yourself. But I have no doubt you will either dwell on the question or shut me down because I didn't answer. Either way, you are avoiding answering other questions.

 

[FHII]

Where did you go? Did I scare you away

Really? Posts have time stamps. You asked me where did I go and if I was scared away about 12 minutes after posting your questions!

My knowledge of the Bible may not be that great, but it takes me a little longer to respond to multiple questions, even if they are rediculous and reaching!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter to God. It's still a sin. It's still a transgression whether it's willfully or not. Proof? Something still had to die to atone it.


Well then what does the death of Jesus have that's more valuable than that of bills and Bullock's?

Hebrews 10 explains and compares the two. When a bull died, it covered past sins. But when Jesus died, it covered all sins once and for all. His one offering perfected forever them that are sanctified by his offering.

Jesus is better than a bull or Bullock.


If was not faultless.


Yes, my mind was stirred up to remembrance.


Well, for many reasons, but I will just say cause God said it was... I will argue with you, but not God... He's a bit more than I can handle.


You never asked. And frankly, it's nothing more than a distraction. It's nothing more than something for you to deflect the conversation away from what you can't answer.

You never asked me what I thought they meant by gràce, but you never defined it yourself. But I have no doubt you will either dwell on the question or shut me down because I didn't answer. Either way, you are avoiding answering other questions.

#38. I guess I didn't exactly put it in the form of a question of what your definition is of grace. Sorry. But anyway, I asked you first!

You see the correct meaning of grace will take care of present and future sins, but not in the way you think. So you go first, then I'll show you what I believe. And also about the bulls and goats question of yours.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Really? Posts have time stamps. You asked me where did I go and if I was scared away about 12 minutes after posting your questions!

My knowledge of the Bible may not be that great, but it takes me a little longer to respond to multiple questions, even if they are rediculous and reaching!

Your profile blocks where you are, so I didn't know you were still here. By the way, what I want to show you is not ridiculous, but profound. We do have a supernatural God after all.

 

[FHII]

So you go first,

No. You go first.

 

[FHII]

Your profile blocks where you are, so I didn't know you were still here.

Doesn't matter. You still expected me to answer in less than 12 or so minutes. Do you believe that to be a reasonable amount of time for an answer?

You are coming off as a post-bater. You really don't seem like you want a discussion, but just one that wants to argue.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Doesn't matter. You still expected me to answer in less than 12 or so minutes. Do you believe that to be a reasonable amount of time for an answer?

You are coming off as a post-bater. You really don't seem like you want a discussion, but just one that wants to argue.

I don't mean to come off that way. I just didn't know if I should continue waiting or go to bed.

There are just a lot of doctrines that are just not right.

The major one is grace is unmerited favor. In other words, the Calvinists I've read here believe we will always be sinners, and just as long as we believe and trust that Jesus will save us, it doesn't matter what we do, grace will cover it. It is like thinking that the blood of Jesus covers our sins while we keep committing them in the present and in the future, and all God the Father sees is Christ's blood, making it better than the blood of bulls and goats.

Is that what you as a Calvinist believe? (Are you a Calvinist? I just assumed. LOL) If you confirm, yes or no and why, I'll continue.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@FHII

Okay, I'm off to bed.

You see, when I'm in the middle of a conversation and need to leave, I'll let you know

 

[Enoch111]

The major one is grace is unmerited favor. In other words, the Calvinists I've read here believe we will always be sinners, and just as long as we believe and trust that Jesus will save us, it doesn't matter what we do, grace will cover it.

I am not a Calvinist, but I don't think any Calvinist believes this nonsense.

And grace is indeed totally unmerited favor. If you do not even understand this basic truth, how do you expect to understand anything else?

So are you going to come right out and claim that you are sinlessly perfect? Since evidently that's what you think salvation means. Just start a separate thread with the title "I am sinlessly perfect and already in my glorified state".

 

[FHII]

I don't mean to come off that way. I just didn't know if I should continue waiting or go to bed.

There are just a lot of doctrines that are just not right.

The major one is grace is unmerited favor. In other words, the Calvinists I've read here believe we will always be sinners, and just as long as we believe and trust that Jesus will save us, it doesn't matter what we do, grace will cover it. It is like thinking that the blood of Jesus covers our sins while we keep committing them in the present and in the future, and all God the Father sees is Christ's blood, making it better than the blood of bulls and goats.

Is that what you as a Calvinist believe? (Are you a Calvinist? I just assumed. LOL) If you confirm, yes or no and why, I'll continue.

You never said what you believe Grace to be; you just said what you believe it NOT to be. I canot comment on a definition you didn't give, nor will I give a definition when you haven't done so yourself.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I didn't mean it had anything to do with that part of your post about grace. You also implied that all sin is willful. It isn't to God. Grace does not cover present and future sins, only past.

All sin is covered in the life of the believer. Past,present,and future.
If you were in John M's church, you would have learned thus.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I am not a Calvinist, but I don't think any Calvinist believes this nonsense.

And grace is indeed totally unmerited favor. If you do not even understand this basic truth, how do you expect to understand anything else?

So are you going to come right out and claim that you are sinlessly perfect? Since evidently that's what you think salvation means. Just start a separate thread with the title "I am sinlessly perfect and already in my glorified state".

this.. No Cal believes what she says. As they know Roman's 6 well.
Those in charismatic. churches are not instructed properly for the most part.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

all I know is calavinism is not biblical, they teach original sin and fatalism!!

 

[Willie T]

all I know is calavinism is not biblical, they teach original sin and fatalism!!

Well, actually, even Dispensationalists teach "Defeatism", in that they say the world is Satan's and The Holy Spirit can do nothing but stand aside and watch whatever he chooses to do. I think this sort of thinking is deep-rooted in many people's interpretation of God's plan.
Too bad really.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

all I know is calavinism is not biblical, they teach original sin and fatalism!!

Original sin is the biblical teaching of the fall.
Not everyone is able to welcome truth.