Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?

[Ritajanice]

◄ Ephesians 2 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Alive with Christ (Colossians 2:6–23) 1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. 4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a One in Christ (Philippians 2:1–4) 11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Christ Our Cornerstone (Isaiah 28:14–22; 1 Corinthians 3:10–15; 1 Peter 2:1–8) 19Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. 21In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord.22And in Him

 

[rwb]

But you are not dead in your trespasses and sins until you trespass and/or sin.

Genesis 5:3 is clearly speaking about the physical image not the spiritual image which is God (Gen 9:6).

The sins of the father which are visited upon his sons are physical results if any of the sins of the father, such as might result from the fathers getting drunk, or speeding, or any number of other things. Such results are not spiritual. There is the entire chapter 18 in Ezekiel which establishes that.

I know this is what you want the Bible to tell us. But sadly the Bible does not agree with your assessment. If it were true that we are not dead in trespasses and sins until we commit trespasses and sins, why do even those who have never sinned died and are dying every single day? I'm referring to new born infants who know not sin, yet they too die.

 

[JBO]

I know this is what you want the Bible to tell us. But sadly the Bible does not agree with your assessment. If it were true that we are not dead in trespasses and sins until we commit trespasses and sins, why do even those who have never sinned died and are dying every single day? I'm referring to new born infants who know not sin, yet they too die.

Because physical death is not the result of sin. Spiritual death is the result of sin. The wages of sin is not physical death. Physical death is the natural result as created of all living things. We know that because if there was no physical death, there would have been no need for the tree of life in the Garden. Adam and Eve did not die physically when they sinned, rather in the day that they sinned they died spiritually just as God said they would. It doesn't say in Genesis that God ejected Adam and Eve because they sinned, but rather so that they would not have access to the tree of life and live forever (Gen 3:22,23). Physical death is the result of God's creation. It is the way we were created.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So when you are on your death bed.... it is too late?

was it too lat for the thief on the cross. He was basically on his death bed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes it does! Which is why the passage reminds believers who possess these things that they shall never again be lost! It's really amazing the length in which the author goes to prove we are eternally secure in Christ because we can never fall away from Him.

people will read what they want to see

they can;t see the author was telling them if they could fall away. it was over, they could not be renewed.

Also how he mentions Christ and shame.. which is what they do when they go back to law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is not what it says. It says that IF those believers fall away, it will be impossible to restore them again.

Yes

IF..

if it were possible..

The law says they can be renewed. because they have fallen away.. and all they need is to sacrifice an animal

 

[rwb]

Faith is not imputed! !

Have you not read of the righteousness through faith imputed to father Abraham? Was he not justified (declared righteous) when he believed by grace through faith (the gift of God) when he heard and believed the Gospel?

James 2:23 (KJV) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

As proof of Abraham's righteousness, he was justified before God through his righteous works.

James 2:24 (KJV) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[rwb]

Because physical death is not the result of sin. Spiritual death is the result of sin. The wages of sin is not physical death. Physical death is the natural result as created of all living things. We know that because if there was no physical death, there would have been no need for the tree of life in the Garden. Adam and Eve did not die physically when they sinned, rather in the day that they sinned they died spiritually just as God said they would. It doesn't say in Genesis that God ejected Adam and Eve because they sinned, but rather so that they would not have access to the tree of life and live forever (Gen 3:22,23). Physical death is the result of God's creation. It is the way we were created.

Physical death is not the result of sin? Then why does mankind physically die? You do understand how spiritual death leads to physical death in the lake of fire, which is the "second death"? The wages of sin is DEATH of both body and spirit IOW the complete living soul. That's why Adam and Eve physically died, just as all of humankind is destined to physically die. The Bible is very clear, death came through sin. Man was not in the beginning created to die. If they had been, God would not have told them they would only die if the disobeyed His command? Again, the Bible is very clear, death entered creation because mankind sinned against God's command.

 

[JBO]

Have you not read of the righteousness through faith imputed to father Abraham? Was he not justified (declared righteous) when he believed by grace through faith (the gift of God) when he heard and believed the Gospel?

James 2:23 (KJV) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

As proof of Abraham's righteousness, he was justified before God through his righteous works.

James 2:24 (KJV) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Yes, righteousness is imputed, but faith is not.

 

[JBO]

Physical death is not the result of sin? Then why does mankind physically die? You do understand how spiritual death leads to physical death in the lake of fire, which is the "second death"? The wages of sin is DEATH of both body and spirit IOW the complete living soul. That's why Adam and Eve physically died, just as all of humankind is destined to physically die. The Bible is very clear, death came through sin. Man was not in the beginning created to die. If they had been, God would not have told them they would only die if the disobeyed His command? Again, the Bible is very clear, death entered creation because mankind sinned against God's command.

No, not according to Genesis 3:22.

 

[rwb]

No, not according to Genesis 3:22.

As I've already said, death is the consequence for sin. Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life before they disobeyed God and brought death through sin into God's creation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I've already said, death is the consequence for sin. Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life before they disobeyed God and brought death through sin into God's creation.

Amen

Adam died the moment he sinned

Physical death did not occur for another 900 plus years

 

[DJT_47]

Hey. Get your reply out of my quote box!

St. SteVen said:
I can't imagine a more careless act. - LOL
As if salvation can be lost as easily as your car keys.
What became of eternal security? We seem to have traded it for eternal IN-security.
The life of fear. Is that what God wants for us?

@DJT_47
Bible says "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Rev 2:10) It's conditional, so what if you don't?

St. SteVen writes...
The Crown of Life is not salvation, per se.

/

The crown of life is not salvation, but salvation and being faithful unto death are necessary in order to attain the prize or reward which is the crown of life. Two different things, one leading to the other, but the 1st thing is to be forgiven of sins past, salvation, then remaining faithful to Christ, subsequent to being saved from your past sins, will lead to his gift of everlasting life.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The crown of life is not salvation, but salvation and being faithful unto death is necessary in order to attain the prize or reward which is the crown of life. Two different things, one leading to the other, but the 1st thing is to be forgiven of sins past, salvation, then remaining faithful to Christ, subsequent to being saved from your past sins, will lead to his gift of everlasting life.

Salvation is not a reward, it is a gift. It can not be earned no matter what we do or do not do..

We can earn a crown of life. But thats not salvation.. which is a gift.

 

[St. SteVen]

The crown of life is not salvation, but salvation and being faithful unto death are necessary in order to attain the prize or reward which is the crown of life. Two different things, one leading to the other, but the 1st thing is to be forgiven of sins past, salvation, then remaining faithful to Christ, subsequent to being saved from your past sins, will lead to his gift of everlasting life.

Can you support the idea of "being faithful unto death" or "remaining faithful to Christ" as salvation issues?
I seem to remember that the biblical "proof-text" doesn't hold water.

/

 

[quietthinker]

Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?​

poor stitching in dem da pockets will loose anything!

 

[JBO]

As I've already said, death is the consequence for sin. Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life before they disobeyed God and brought death through sin into God's creation.

Why would they need access to the tree of life before they disobeyed God if there was no death? Clearly the purpose tree of life was to protect against death before they sinned. Once they sinned, God took away their access to that tree.

 

[St. SteVen]

Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?​

poor stitching in dem da pockets will loose anything!

Yes. We clearly need a spelling lesson here.

If it's loose, it needs to be tightened.
If you lose it, it needs to be found.

/ cc: @Davy

 

[rwb]

Why would they need access to the tree of life before they disobeyed God if there was no death? Clearly the purpose tree of life was to protect against death before they sinned. Once they sinned, God took away their access to that tree.

There was no death because the tree of life was there for them to partake of and live forever. The tree of life is symbolic of abiding always in God for life. When the tree of life was blocked that access to life through God was gone. It was in compassion for mankind that God blocked the way to the tree of life because if they ate of it after sin entered into creation, which always brings corruption to everything it touches, they would have lived forever with sin and the agony and destruction that comes through sin.

 

[St. SteVen]

There was no death because the tree of life was there for them to partake of and live forever.

This is something I have wondered about.
Was there any kind of death in the Garden (orchard) of Eden before the Fall?

Was was to tend in the garden with no death? No dead leaves or branches to remove?
No decaying leaves to fertilize the ground?

/