Can anybody really tell what time it is?

[VictoryinJesus]

but would not this be in the single event known. my question, WHY BUILD IN SUCCESSION?

Romans 1 "...so that they are without excuse:"

I am not sure there has to be any other reason BUT if God is leading you to believe there is more there...He will give you the answer you seek. He is the Creator. Blessings, 101G.

 

[101G]

Romans 1 "...so that they are without excuse:"

I am not sure there has to be any other reason BUT if God is leading you to believe there is more there...He will give you the answer you seek. He is the Creator. Blessings, 101G.

will do. thanks.

 

[bbyrd009]

but would not this be in the single event known. my question, WHY BUILD IN SUCCESSION?

how else do you make gods, is my guess.

 

[ScottA]

First thanks for the response, are saying then that this time line (history) is a fixed event from beginning to end on one frame?. barring whosoever believeth, and free will?.

Not exactly. But rather, that the timeline of history exists within a timeless reality, which is of God. So, then, if time does not exist with God, there is no Beginning or End of time per se, but rather it is a detailed truth told by the media of time. Thus, Jesus, who is the Beginning and the End, is actually "I am"...and this is His story.

As for freewill, just as what we experienced over a lifetime, is actually a timeless reality "in Christ"...so too is our "hour of decision": What takes a lifetime to experience...we decided (past tense) "in Christ" "in the twinkling of an eye" "before the foundation of the world." And this is the play by play, after the fact...so to speak.

 

[ScottA]

ok, if then this is all an illusion, (in Time, I agree on that) then the reality is distorted and not fixed. God is timeless, I agree. but have not God himself intervene in this history. example God have changed his mind on some things, God have repented on some things. and he have intervene to keep something he wanted done but could have been changed. so where is Faith, and prayer in this scenario, which the bible itself says changes things.

This is the most abstract. Everything that was done, was done according to God, whom is timeless. So, then, we can break it down to our "hour" of decision, and imagine that it was actually "in the twinkling of an eye" - but that is just man or world speak.

 

[Jay Ross]

?
two known events? can't be two non-events i guess...

Consider a race, the start and the finish of a race are non events, as far as the race is concerned. No time is used up at the start and the finish of a race and as such the start and the finish are non events because their time interval is zero "sec" in duration.

The start and the finish are events but not as far as the actual race is concerned.

 

[Jay Ross]

@ScottA

Now that you have got your head out of your ....... this thread is beginning to make some sense. But it took quite a while for you to get to that point.

 

[101G]

Not exactly. But rather, that the timeline of history exists within a timeless reality, which is of God. So, then, if time does not exist with God, there is no Beginning or End of time per se, but rather it is a detailed truth told by the media of time. Thus, Jesus, who is the Beginning and the End, is actually "I am"...and this is His story.

again Scott, a beginning and a ending is not a single event.
second U said, "timeline of history exists within a timeless reality".
ok, good then our reality is not timeless.

As for freewill, just as what we experienced over a lifetime, is actually a timeless reality "in Christ"

I can't buy that. because Christ is the beginning, (yesterday) before our reality, and he is the, as U say "timeline of history exists within a timeless reality" which will be TODAY. and he is the end which is (forever more) after our reality. . so that today in Christ is a timeline a history of Linear time, as you pointed out, which is our reality. so the scripture is correct, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever".

 

[101G]

This is the most abstract. Everything that was done, was done according to God, whom is timeless. So, then, we can break it down to our "hour" of decision, and imagine that it was actually "in the twinkling of an eye" - but that is just man or world speak.

I can't buy this either. here's why. if everything was according to God will why did God ask Jeremiah not to pray for the people?. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". this tell me PRAY CHANGES THING. the bible is very adamant about this. and there are many instances where changes was made to history, or may I say the course of history.

 

[ScottA]

again Scott, a beginning and a ending is not a single event.
second U said, "timeline of history exists within a timeless reality".
ok, good then our reality is not timeless.

No, somehow you are missing the point.

Does an hour and a half movie about a story of a 100 year time period, have an hour and a half timeline, or a 100 year timeline? You see, the hour and a half is not a timeline per se...but is just the time it takes to tell the story. But unlike the realm of God, both the movie and the story exist in time. Not so, with God.

God is the Author of His own story (history). But that written story, even though it has a timeline within the pages, is timeless on His timeless shelf.

I can't buy that. because Christ is the beginning, (yesterday) before our reality, and he is the, as U say "timeline of history exists within a timeless reality" which will be TODAY. and he is the end which is (forever more) after our reality. . so that today in Christ is a timeline a history of Linear time, as you pointed out, which is our reality. so the scripture is correct, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever".

"The same yesterday, today, and forever"...from God's timeless perspective would be like saying "before, during, and after" everything that was made, was made. Or as God has put it "I am."

 

[ScottA]

I can't buy this either. here's why. if everything was according to God will why did God ask Jeremiah not to pray for the people?. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". this tell me PRAY CHANGES THING. the bible is very adamant about this. and there are many instances where changes was made to history, or may I say the course of history.

It it possible that my answer to you will have to be the same as Jesus told the apostles: "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

But...let's try this:

If you were to look at an MRI image (just one) of part of a person...that would be like looking at the life and times of Jeremiah. But that one slice of the overall reality of God does not make the whole of it...but God, whom is timeless, makes up it all. And if you took that MRI slice and laid it on a table, it would be all of that one slice as it fit into the whole...but by itself, it would be only a fraction of the truth.

So...when Jesus said He is the Truth...that is what He meant: He is all of our lives and times in One man (the Last Adam). This is why it is correct to say we are "in Christ."

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, good then our reality is not timeless.

something i...heard a dog say once, "now is when, and then is when, but now is never then."
(i guess i supplied the words, but that is what she meant)

I can't buy that. because Christ is the beginning, (yesterday) before our reality, and he is the, as U say "timeline of history exists within a timeless reality" which will be TODAY. and he is the end which is (forever more) after our reality. . so that today in Christ is a timeline a history of Linear time, as you pointed out, which is our reality. so the scripture is correct, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever".

reality is timeless, to a dog; at least in an important sense. The little kid sense, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I can't buy this either. here's why. if everything was according to God will why did God ask Jeremiah not to pray for the people?. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". this tell me PRAY CHANGES THING. the bible is very adamant about this. and there are many instances where changes was made to history, or may I say the course of history.

13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith Jehovah, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not:

hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

No, somehow you are missing the point.

i bought a Djembe' from this Sudanese guy--before the Strangers melted his nation--and i could not explain to him sufficiently what a clock or watch did. i still don't know if he was being deliberately obtuse to make a point or not; but let me tell you, lol...well, just try to explain what a clock does to a little kid, a 4 year old or something. The only reason they are not laughing at you is because you are not a little kid!

"The same yesterday, today, and forever"...from God's timeless perspective would be like saying "before, during, and after" everything that was made, was made. Or as God has put it "I am."

wadr for that sense "I AM," the emphatic "am" iow

 

[bbyrd009]

This is why it is correct to say we are "in Christ."

except when we are not, i guess. i mean, have you been "in Christ" every single moment since you "got saved?"

 

[ScottA]

except when we are not, i guess. i mean, have you been "in Christ" every single moment since you "got saved?"

Personally, Yes. But I had a "road to Damascus" conversion.

But it is important to understand that the time that it would appear has been given to us has been allotted to us for this "process", it has not, but all comes down to a single moment (in the twinkling of and eye) of decision.

 

[101G]

Maybe I'm not just getting it, but you said,

Does an hour and a half movie about a story of a 100 year time period, have an hour and a half timeline, or a 100 year timeline? You see, the hour and a half is not a timeline per se

First thanks for the response, and I have finish your book. but will read it again, because sometime one can miss a point that could change the whole story. but while reading your book and thinking on what I believe, I have came to some interesting thoughts on this timeline of our and God's.

here's my point, the reality, or actuality of this hour and half is a time line you spoke on. it's ABOUT, ABOUT, the movie, and not the actual timeline. it's ABOUT what's within that movie, which is about a story of a 100 years in an hour and a half of frames. please, don't get me wrong, for God time is the same, let me said that again, God time is the SAME. let's get some understanding. as I said in another post, one must have objects, whether concrete, or abstract, which are observational by sight or by faith in order to measure time. hence the creation of the universe. what am I saying here?. is time observable with one object, seen, or unseen?. I say Yes. what do I mean, with one Object time is observable, but not Measured, it's called TIME...... LESS, get it, "LESS" no time. but what do I mean TIMELESS, eternal. now get this, if there was two or more object then this TIME... LESS.... NESS can now, not only be observable, but also measurable. so the hour and a half movie is a observable measurement of this TIME ... LESS.... NESS of God. see what I'm saying now. also understand this. in using our example, the hour and a half movie had some out takes, or some scenes that was shot over. or as we might say, "history repeats itself". in order for history to repeat itself scenes are the same, but different actors. meaning that there could be hundreds or even thousands of scenes shot over, and over. like Israel sin, God delivered, which took place at different time in history. see what I'm getting at.

so the the movie might be a hour and a half long, but it's an hour and a half long in observable measurements of this TIME ... LESS.... NESS "IN" God. notice I said "IN" God, supportive scripture, Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring". so by being in him we're timeless, until we have movement. which is (1). observable TIME-LESS-NESS "IN" God, because God said to Jeremiah, 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations". before Jeremiah was formed, (meaning physically, a body) he was timeless, spirit (in God), (THIS IS MY OPINION, ok). when he was formed in the belly, (2). he had MOVEMENT, meaning measured observable TIME-LESS-NESS in God. Remember this only my opinion, so don't hold me to this, ok.

according to Genesis 1:1 we live in a created world "IN" God who is TIME-LESS. when he created object including us, creatures, which are objects, and gave us movement, then observable TIME-LESS-NESS in God was measured. notice, observable TIME-LESS-NESS in GOD, which is called MOVEMENT, which are the FRAMES of the MOVIE. understand with one object time exist, (observable) called TIMELESS, but not measured. but when two or more objects are in movement, then we have observable movement which is measured in the TIME-LESS, or eternal God.

I hope that makes sense.

P.S. this have open up to me some thinking on the subjective (spirit), abstract world, and this Objective (created) world, and how FAITH works in both worlds.

Peace "IN" Christ Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

Personally, Yes. But I had a "road to Damascus" conversion.

and you now believe that you have been in Christ unceasingly, every second since then?

 

[bbyrd009]

all comes down to a single moment (in the twinkling of and eye) of decision.

ha well funny i agree with what you are saying there 100%, yet i am interpreting your sentence there in a completely diff way. You are referring to a single, past moment, right--you, who is simultaneously arguing the concept of time on another...oh, right here iguess, hmm the irony--and i...am not.

 

[bbyrd009]

when he created object including us, creatures, which are objects, and gave us movement, then observable TIME-LESS-NESS in God was measured. notice, observable TIME-LESS-NESS in GOD, which is called MOVEMENT, which are the FRAMES of the MOVIE. understand with one object time exist, (observable) called TIMELESS, but not measured. but when two or more objects are in movement, then we have observable movement which is measured in the TIME-LESS, or eternal God.

I hope that makes sense.

actually what i see revealed in your post here is that it is when God created something separate from Himself, measured, that time is created. Seems to be virtually the opposite of what you are saying. God is One, and timeless. Two creates reference, movement, and time. seems to me. not that you might not have a point, but imo this arg seems to even be borne out by your "when he created object including us, creatures, which are objects, and gave us movement, then observable TIME-LESS-NESS in God was measured."