Can anybody really tell what time it is?

[ScottA]

@ScottA Really, Scott, you have told the truth?

I am sorry, but I am not the only one who sees through your posts for what they are worth.

And now you have gone and done it...taken up the precedence of unbelief, just as those did who killed the prophets. God even sent His Son, and I have told you nothing different, just explained it in plain language. But you would rather believe a lie and agree with men who sleep.

 

[bbyrd009]

tbh i have to witness for @Jay Ross here, even if i would have put it diff, as you do have a lot of good insight imo

 

[lforrest]

tbh i have to witness for @Jay Ross here, even if i would have put it diff, as you do have a lot of good insight imo

And I agree with the timeless perspective of God, though I am not with Scott on all the details. As for prophecy fulfillment, what does that have to do with his timelessness? Prophecy is typically for God's glory. When you look back it becomes obvious God declared what would happen in advance.

 

[Jay Ross]

And I agree with the timeless perspective of God, though I am not with Scott on all the details. As for prophecy fulfillment, what does that have to do with his timelessness? Prophecy is typically for God's glory. When you look back it becomes obvious God declared what would happen in advance.

I also hold to the perspective as I understand it of the timeless perspective of God, but I also consider God can work within His timeframe of reference as well as within man's time frame reference to show His Glory.

However, the sad thing is that when people begin pushing their theories to the "max," they lose people because they begin debunking people as ScottA is presently doing in the above post by cherry picking scriptures and examples from the scriptures to justify his position.

And now you have gone and done it...taken up the precedence of unbelief, just as those did who killed the prophets. God even sent His Son, and I have told you nothing different, just explained it in plain language. But you would rather believe a lie and agree with men who sleep.

ScottA I do not hold to the usual traditions, but if you and I had been there on the day they demanded that Christ be crucified, would we both have with held our voice from the crowds? It is our collective sins that Christ took to the cross and we each have to repent of our respective sins and continue to keep a short account of them, because sin blinds us often from seeing them. And God, I know, has waited patiently for some saints to repent of their sin and has had to challenge them before they even begin to understand that they have sinned.

Being saintly is a lot of hard work but often we allow our "slip" to show more than we would care too.

 

[ScottA]

I also hold to the perspective as I understand it of the timeless perspective of God, but I also consider God can work within His timeframe of reference as well as within man's time frame reference to show His Glory.

However, the sad thing is that when people begin pushing their theories to the "max," they lose people because they begin debunking people as ScottA is presently doing in the above post by cherry picking scriptures and examples from the scriptures to justify his position.


ScottA I do not hold to the usual traditions, but if you and I had been there on the day they demanded that Christ be crucified, would we both have with held our voice from the crowds? It is our collective sins that Christ took to the cross and we each have to repent of our respective sins and continue to keep a short account of them, because sin blinds us often from seeing them. And God, I know, has waited patiently for some saints to repent of their sin and has had to challenge them before they even begin to understand that they have sinned.

Being saintly is a lot of hard work but often we allow our "slip" to show more than we would care too.

Jay,
Where I usually consider myself a tactful person having understanding and consideration toward those who are skeptical, and that I am reasonable communicator, I am not trying to sell anything. I am not here to exercise my opinion or some theory. I am simply freely giving what I have freely been given. Which I boldly do by the nature of my spiritual gift to declare a word of knowledge...meaning, it is not I who speak, but the Holy Spirit. What becomes of it or how it is received is God's business. As for me, I am usually a better listener and slow to speak.

 

[Jay Ross]

@ScottA
But your words are targeting a person who has as much claim to be receiving God's input in a spiritual sense for what I write, however, I prefer it if people can show me where there may be an error in my understanding and if their argument is sound, then I am happy to prayerfully consider it and change my position.

Now, the definition of time that I like the best is, "The length of a period between two none events." So the Question asked, "Can anybody really tell what time it is?" is very dependant on the none events that begins the measurement of time and the none event that a person uses to end his measurement of time. Without defining those two end points, nobody can tell what time it is.

 

[Dcopymope]

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Luke 13:32
And He said to them, “Go, tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’

Revelation 1:19
Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

1-2-3...can you see it?

It should be a Revelation.

As I understand it, its not just that God is outside of time, insinuating that time as a general concept only started with the words "in the beginning", but the thing I think most people miss is that God himself IS time. He is THE beginning, and the end, the first that ever was, and the last that ever will be. This is why he can claim to be the same yesterday, today and forever, because what we call the "future" has already occurred from God's vantage point. This is why he can claim that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that all have sinned as Adam sinned, because he knows you will sin, and the reason why he knows is because he has already seen it. This is why Jesus could tell Peter that he will deny him exactly three times before the rooster crows, because he already saw it. Its not like he has a crystal ball showing him what happens in any given moment in time, its simply because everything we could ever know was already known by God from the beginning, who is the beginning. How this fits in with some peoples definition of predestination is beyond me.

 

[bbyrd009]

"The length of a period between two none events."

?
two known events? can't be two non-events i guess...

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA
But your words are targeting a person who has as much claim to be receiving God's input in a spiritual sense for what I write, however, I prefer it if people can show me where there may be an error in my understanding and if their argument is sound, then I am happy to prayerfully consider it and change my position.

Now, the definition of time that I like the best is, "The length of a period between two none events." So the Question asked, "Can anybody really tell what time it is?" is very dependant on the none events that begins the measurement of time and the none event that a person uses to end his measurement of time. Without defining those two end points, nobody can tell what time it is.

The original OP question was just an apropos quote from a Chicago song, bringing attention to the general idea and understanding of time.

The point, my point, was and is to show that for the sake of our own eternal future, that we would increase in the things of God and decrease in the ways of the world, we should consider time as it is...as a finite creation, limited to a world that is passing away. More importantly, that time is to God, a media for telling His story (and ours), which is a story told in time, but does not actually include time because the Author does not exist within the limits of His own creation, but is in fact timeless and above all of what we know of time. Thus, when we read that the key components of our very existence in Christ are in fact measured by God as being "before the foundation of the world" (meaning before and aside from time)...time, in that existence, which is our future and even now is, is in fact the illusion that even science has determined to be true.

My definition of time in its actual context, is: story time (as told by God). History is His story...."Once upon a time", as it were.

With this increase of knowledge...how shall we therefore...live?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Addressing the OP and time:

One thing to consider: God is not in linear time so why would we believe His word would be confined to linear time. Yes, historically(physically) the word follows a time table we can interact with and understand; but God(Spirit) is multidimensional and (spiritually)so is the Word.

Definition of linear: Resembling a straight line; having only one dimension (length). Which is not God.

 

[101G]

that was the last days for them not for us for us in these last days He has spoken to us by His Scriptures and His Church - twinc

I was looking back over this topic, and came across this statement address to me which I did not see. I believe we're in the last days today. so, is not the Son speaking to us today?. for he is the Spirit of TRUTH, scripture, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". is the Son still speaking?, "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". for he is the same yesterday, today, and for evermore.

Peace in Christ JESUS

 

[101G]

How about "today, and tomorrow, and the third day" godly speaking?

I can grasp that but..... why would God used linear time, sequentially, as a series of events. could he not have just did it in a single event?. why the sequential events.

I have a theory, but ... I'll wait.

Peace in CHRIST YESHUA

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I can grasp that but..... why would God used linear time, sequentially, as a series of events. could he not have just did it in a single event?. why the sequential events.

I have a theory, but ... I'll wait.

Peace in CHRIST YESHUA

I can't answer the why to your post. But I ask you something He has brought to my attention and not sure why:

Revelation 1:1 KJV
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ" we assume started with John and therefore is future tense (must shortly come to pass). Do we not all (servants) receive the "Revelation of Jesus Christ"? Does it not tell of Him(reveal), rather than its only purpose being discernment of end times?

Does that make sense?

 

[101G]

I can't answer the why to your post. But I ask you something He has brought to my attention and not sure why:

Revelation 1:1 KJV
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ" we assume started with John and therefore is future tense (must shortly come to pass). Do we not all (servants) receive the "Revelation of Jesus Christ"? Does it not tell of Him(reveal), rather than its only purpose being discernment of end times?

Does that make sense?

First thanks for the response. to a point I do, but, understand this, why "thing(s)", why not the thing?. single event, why the series of events. if all time is one time why the series of EVENTS, this is my point. I understand that "a" movie contain series of individual frames. but the frames put together make the one picture, good, fine, I got that. but by putting the frames together, that linear time, but could this not all be accomplish in ONE EVENT, or in one frame, as proposed TIMELESS?. I understand God have a movie, one for him, TIMELESS, but the frames I'm still stuck on. maybe I'm not getting it. but I'll look back over it.

thanks VJ.

 

[ScottA]

I can grasp that but..... why would God used linear time, sequentially, as a series of events. could he not have just did it in a single event?. why the sequential events.

I have a theory, but ... I'll wait.

Peace in CHRIST YESHUA

He did do it in a single event. Interestingly, science refers to it as the big bang. But, I digress...back to the single event: In the creation the timeline is rather a story line...history is His story. In other words, when the scriptures say, "It is written"...that is exactly what is meant. The abstract and bizarre thing for us to grasp, is that it would appear that His story is being delivered to us in real time. Which is only true in the sense that we are just hearing and experiencing it as it is revealed. The actual reality, however, is that this part of the bigger picture places us within that instantaneous big bang single event of non-time.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

First thanks for the response. to a point I do, but, understand this, why "thing(s)", why not the thing?. single event, why the series of events. if all time is one time why the series of EVENTS, this is my point. I understand that "a" movie contain series of individual frames. but the frames put together make the one picture, good, fine, I got that. but by putting the frames together, that linear time, but could this not all be accomplish in ONE EVENT, or in one frame, as proposed TIMELESS?. I understand God have a movie, one for him, TIMELESS, but the frames I'm still stuck on. maybe I'm not getting it. but I'll look back over it.

thanks VJ.

maybe...
Consider one word: "invested"

That one "event" must build in succession and become personal. For some reason that is how God does it. If I told you a woman and her children die in a fire. For you it is one event: in hearing. A sad event but there is no real investment to the event. But then there is also seeing: think of Job.

Job 42:5 KJV
[5] I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

The woman killed in the fire was your wife. Her children were yours. There's relationship. We have images of your family. You can still hear their voices. The event: the fire...becomes something you are invested in. It becomes real. Personal. God wants relationship. Not robots that are disconnected. Linear time equals investment to the event which is His love.


Also I will add: linear time keeps man from seeing the beginning, the middle, and the end. linear time keeps man seeking and dependent on God. Only God can tell the future.

 

[ScottA]

I can't answer the why to your post. But I ask you something He has brought to my attention and not sure why:

Revelation 1:1 KJV
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ" we assume started with John and therefore is future tense (must shortly come to pass). Do we not all (servants) receive the "Revelation of Jesus Christ"? Does it not tell of Him(reveal), rather than its only purpose being discernment of end times?

Does that make sense?

End times, does not mean those times at the end of time. It means, the end of God's will...meaning, that in the context of His eternal and timeless reality it is as if He determined all things and then snapped His fingers, and it was so. Times, then, in that scenario, refers to the unfolding revelation of His story unto all who are involved. In our reality (that of the world, and that of one who is a character written into the story), is: "a time, times, and half a time." In His reality, that being the actual and greater truth, time does not exist, and therefore can and is described as "I am", or in other words, "it is."

Therefore, the revelation of Jesus Christ, is just what it says as seen from John's vantage point: "the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this", in other words, "What was, what is, and what is to come." It's everything from Beginning to End.

 

[101G]

He did do it in a single event. Interestingly, science refers to it as the big bang. But, I digress...back to the single event: In the creation the timeline is rather a story line...history is His story. In other words, when the scriptures say, "It is written"...that is exactly what is meant. The abstract and bizarre thing for us to grasp, is that it would appear that His story is being delivered to us in real time. Which is only true in the sense that we are just hearing and experiencing it as it is revealed. The actual reality, however, is that this part of the bigger picture places us within that instantaneous big bang single event of non-time.

First thanks for the response, are saying then that this time line (history) is a fixed event from beginning to end on one frame?. barring whosoever believeth, and free will?.

 

[101G]

maybe...
Consider one word: "invested"

That one "event" must build in succession and become personal. For some reason that is how God does it. If I told you a woman and her children die in a fire. For you it is one event: in hearing. A sad event but there is no real investment to the event. But then there is also seeing: think of Job.

but would not this be in the single event known. my question, WHY BUILD IN SUCCESSION?

 

[101G]

End times, does not mean those times at the end of time. It means, the end of God's will...meaning, that in the context of His eternal and timeless reality it is as if He determined all things and then snapped His fingers, and it was so. Times, then, in that scenario, refers to the unfolding revelation of His story unto all who are involved. In our reality (that of the world, and that of one who is a character written into the story), is: "a time, times, and half a time." In His reality, that being the actual and greater truth, time does not exist, and therefore can and is described as "I am", or in other words, "it is."

Therefore, the revelation of Jesus Christ, is just what it says as seen from John's vantage point: "the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this", in other words, "What was, what is, and what is to come." It's everything from Beginning to End.

ok, if then this is all an illusion, (in Time, I agree on that) then the reality is distorted and not fixed. God is timeless, I agree. but have not God himself intervene in this history. example God have changed his mind on some things, God have repented on some things. and he have intervene to keep something he wanted done but could have been changed. so where is Faith, and prayer in this scenario, which the bible itself says changes things.