Can Jesus and Paul be reconciled on the LAW?

[justbyfaith]

and he even admits being a liar.

Where does Paul admit to being a liar?

In Romans 3?

No, he doesn't.

He is using a literary tactic to identify a certain attitude that he sees in people. He mentions that Christians are slanderously reported as having it. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man). God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie to his glory, why am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. Romans 3:5-8.

Breaking it down, Paul is saying that there is a certain attitude that he sees in people (deserving of condemnation) that they think that the ends justify the means. They think that it is okay to lie if it means that God will get glory because of that lie.

But it is clear from what Paul says here that the attitude spoken of is worthy of condemnation.

2 Peter 3:15-16 would tell you that some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand; and that some people who are unlearned and/or unstable wrest them to their own destruction

@Danube, I hope that this will not be you for very much longer.

 

[Stranger]

You did clearly say " he saw the risen christ" but he (Paul):
A: describes light as the physical manifestation of what he saw.
B: hears a voice that "say's" it is Jesus which is not the same as "looking directly at Jesus" hence he heard not saw.
C: It fits the descriptive warning perfectly that Jesus "himself" gave of false Christs and how they appear.

I do not believe Paul because he does not check out as genuine. I use Jesus' instructions and teaching of how he tells us he will be seen (as I posted ref for you to be polite) and Paul even admits being a liar. Paul even slates Jesus' own brother James as knowing less about his own brother (Christ) than Paul(?) Which reeks....
There is more but I still seek answers to my original few questions so I am not in a hurry to just brush over them, mainly because I need to be sure in my own mind (and heart) that I fully understand Paul' strange Damascus event first and it's significance to my own learning and recent insights into the biblical narrative. Maybe I might have more replys on a Muslim forum....I am beginning to wonder who hears Jesus or keeps him as the authority by his teachings...certainly not many here I can tell you that.

You're such a coward. Answer my questions concerning Peters remarks about Paul's writings. Are Peter's writings Scripture, the Word of God? If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings? You make this big show about no one answering your questions, and your questions offer no difficulty at all. If your scared to answer mine, just admit it. What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture?

To attribute Paul's writings to a false spirit or false Christ, is to attribute satan to the work of the Holy Spirit. Again you find yourself in bad company.

You don't believe Paul because you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. You arn't fooling anyone. And Paul does not admit to being a liar, as I have already showed you. Yes, yes, you claim many things but can prove none.

I'm sure you will find better company on a muslim forum. Do yourself a favor and remove that Christian tag you came in wearing.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

@Danube, your soul hangs in the balance.

 

[Danube]

@Danube, your soul hangs in the balance.

I cannot judge the same until I have been judged. I see no one qualified to judge either of us around here, on such a dehumanized and expressionless platform as this be, I hope you find your way home.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Danube, your soul hangs in the balance.

I cannot judge the same until I have been judged. I see no one qualified to judge either of us around here, on such a dehumanized and expressionless platform as this be, I hope you find your way home.

I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say what I did. I hope that you do not think of it as a judgmental statement.

 

[Stranger]

I cannot judge the same until I have been judged. I see no one qualified to judge either of us around here, on such a dehumanized and expressionless platform as this be, I hope you find your way home.

He who you attribute the works of satan to is quite able to judge.

Are Peter's writings inspired by God? If so, why don't you believe Paul? What writings of the Bible do you consider Scripture?

Stranger

 

[Danube]

You're such a coward. Answer my questions concerning Peters remarks about Paul's writings. Are Peter's writings Scripture, the Word of God? If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings? You make this big show about no one answering your questions, and your questions offer no difficulty at all. If your scared to answer mine, just admit it. What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture?

To attribute Paul's writings to a false spirit or false Christ, is to attribute satan to the work of the Holy Spirit. Again you find yourself in bad company.

You don't believe Paul because you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. You arn't fooling anyone. And Paul does not admit to being a liar, as I have already showed you. Yes, yes, you claim many things but can prove none.

I'm sure you will find better company on a muslim forum. Do yourself a favor and remove that Christian tag you came in wearing.

Stranger

Already answered it. You alluded to a meal you haven't tasted three times now.
Thanks for your time, Stranger.

 

[justbyfaith]

He who you attribute the works of satan to is quite able to judge.

Are Peter's writings inspired by God? If so, why don't you believe Paul? What writings of the Bible do you consider Scripture?

Stranger

Stranger, you are going overboard. Mellow out.

 

[Danube]

I believe that the Holy Spirit led me to say what I did. I hope that you do not think of it as a judgmental statement.

I don't think anything negative of you whatsoever.

 

[Stranger]

Already answered it. You alluded to a meal you haven't tasted three times now.
Thanks for your time, Stranger.

Now you add lying to your sins. You never answered these questions. If you had I wouldn't keep having to ask them over and over again. Your meal has nothing to do with you answering my questions.

Do you believe Peter's writings are Scripture? If so, why don't you believe Paul? What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture? You can't answer these honestly. Which is why you give no answer.

My time is not yours. I don't respond to you for you.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

Waxing ugly in a conversation is not something that can be said of every Christian.

 

[Danube]

I have answered your question, as honestly as I could. Go back and re-read it, perhaps digest it? It was served as you asked.

Now you add lying to your sins. You never answered these questions. If you had I wouldn't keep having to ask them over and over again. Your meal has nothing to do with you answering my questions.

Do you believe Peter's writings are Scripture? If so, why don't you believe Paul? What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture? You can't answer these honestly. Which is why you give no answer.

My time is not yours. I don't respond to you for you.

Stranger

I showed you that Paul NEVER saw anything in the likeness of Jesus, he was blinded by a light, he heard a voice that told him it was Jesus.
Pauls own words.
Jesus says to test ANYONE who says they have seen, giving you the correct way to identify. I gave you the scripture that clearly shows this to be true. Paul' testimony of 1 endorsment is as weak as his own testimony regarding his bright light experience.
You did say to me he (Paul) did see Jesus, why tell me that when he clearly saw light and heard a voice?
I am not calling you a liar, I think you were in error and I gave my reasons by showing you how I came to disagree.
That was all.
Thanks for your time, I do sincerely appreciate it because you have stuck around long enough to stay part of the conversation.
That was all I meant by that too. It is a prickly subject. No one likes having their beliefs challenged and you showed me alot of conviction in defense of Paul.

 

[Stranger]

I have answered your question, as honestly as I could. Go back and re-read it, perhaps digest it? It was served as you asked.

I showed you that Paul NEVER saw anything in the likeness of Jesus, he was blinded by a light, he heard a voice that told him it was Jesus.
Pauls own words.
Jesus says to test ANYONE who says they have seen, giving you the correct way to identify. I gave you the scripture that clearly shows this to be true. Paul' testimony of 1 endorsment is as weak as his own testimony regarding his bright light experience.
You did say to me he (Paul) did see Jesus, why tell me that when he clearly saw light and heard a voice?
I am not calling you a liar, I think you were in error and I gave my reasons by showing you how I came to disagree.
That was all.
Thanks for your time, I do sincerely appreciate it because you have stuck around long enough to stay part of the conversation.
That was all I meant by that too. It is a prickly subject. No one likes having their beliefs challenged and you showed me alot of conviction in defense of Paul.

You answered nothing. Are the writings of Peter Scripture? If so, then why do you not accept Paul's writings as Scripture? What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture? Why are you so scared?

The Scriptures in (Acts) that I showed you prove Paul saw Jesus. He said "I saw". He asked "Who art Thou Lord". "Jesus answered, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:". You can't get much clearer than that. You gave nothing to prove otherwise. Just like you give nothing in answer to my questions.

As I said, my time is not yours. I don't answer these things for you. What I have shown you is that you don't know what you are talking about, and that you will go to any lengths to deny it. And it really wasn't that difficult. Just a few posts and you refuse to answer my questions. Why? Because the obvious answers show that you don't know what you are talking about.

Again, you need to change that 'Christian' identification you carry.

Stranger

 

[Jun2u]

I have Jesus.
I do not need Paul for salvation.
What part of that are you struggling with?

I’m not struggling understanding Scripture. You are!!! I know where I stand and am very secure with God.

Tell me, how do you know you have Jesus seeing that Satan comes as an Angel of Light, looking and speaking like Christ? That title belongs to Jesus, He is the Messenger of the Covenant!!! Satan is really hard at work.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Danube]

You answered nothing. Are the writings of Peter Scripture? If so, then why do you not accept Paul's writings as Scripture? What writings in the Bible do you consider Scripture? Why are you so scared?

The Scriptures in (Acts) that I showed you prove Paul saw Jesus. He said "I saw". He asked "Who art Thou Lord". "Jesus answered, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:". You can't get much clearer than that. You gave nothing to prove otherwise. Just like you give nothing in answer to my questions.

As I said, my time is not yours. I don't answer these things for you. What I have shown you is that you don't know what you are talking about, and that you will go to any lengths to deny it. And it really wasn't that difficult. Just a few posts and you refuse to answer my questions. Why? Because the obvious answers show that you don't know what you are talking about.

Again, you need to change that 'Christian' identification you carry.

Stranger

Saul actually said he heard a voice. What he saw was a bright light. So yes you are now lying to me.
You can interpret the reply to Sauls question as "seeing" but Saul only describes seeing a light and hearing a voice so I AM calling you out as a liar.
I make this very clear to you.

• At Acts 9:3-8, Paul was BLINDED by a light and fell down, then HEARD Jesus, who TOLD Paul that he would be told what to do when he was in the city. His men DID NOT SEE the light, but HEARD the voice. They remained standing.
• At Acts 22:6-11, Paul told the people he was BLINDED by a light and fell down, then HEARD Jesus, who again TOLD Paul that he would be told what to do when he was in Damascus. This time, his men SAW THE LIGHT but, unlike Paul, were not blinded, and DID NOT HEAR the voice.

“Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14)

 

[Stranger]

Saul actually said he heard a voice. What he saw was a bright light. So yes you are now lying to me.
You can interpret the reply to Sauls question as "seeing" but Saul only describes seeing a light and hearing a voice so I AM calling you out as a liar.
I make this very clear to you.

• At Acts 9:3-8, Paul was BLINDED by a light and fell down, then HEARD Jesus, who TOLD Paul that he would be told what to do when he was in the city. His men DID NOT SEE the light, but HEARD the voice. They remained standing.
• At Acts 22:6-11, Paul told the people he was BLINDED by a light and fell down, then HEARD Jesus, who again TOLD Paul that he would be told what to do when he was in Damascus. This time, his men SAW THE LIGHT but, unlike Paul, were not blinded, and DID NOT HEAR the voice.

Yes, Paul saw a light, and that light was a Person, which is why he asked, 'Who art thou Lord'. And the Lord said, "I am Jesus". (Acts 9:5) Pretty straight forward. Paul saw the risen Christ.

You can call me whatever you like. The problem is Scripture doesn't support what you say.

Speaking of Scripture....are you still scared? Are Peters writings Scripture? If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings are Scripture? What writings do you consider Scripture...the Word of God?

Stranger

 

[Danube]

Yes, Paul saw a light, and that light was a Person, which is why he asked, 'Who art thou Lord'. And the Lord said, "I am Jesus". (Acts 9:5) Pretty straight forward. Paul saw the risen Christ.

You can call me whatever you like. The problem is Scripture doesn't support what you say.

Speaking of Scripture....are you still scared? Are Peters writings Scripture? If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings are Scripture? What writings do you consider Scripture...the Word of God?

Stranger

You are a Liar.
You have now just said he saw a person!

(scripture?)

How could Saul SEE while blinded?

You never did attempt to explain that to us all from way back in this thread...

He couldnt even get the witness testimony of two or more...what a joke!

What next ....Saul definately, with all certainty ....erm...SAW his voice?

 

[Stranger]

You are a Liar.
You have now just said he saw a person!

(scripture?)

How could Saul SEE while blinded?

You never did attempt to explain that to us all from way back in this thread...

He couldnt even get the witness testimony of two or more...what a joke!

What next ....Saul definately, with all certainty ....erm...SAW his voice?

I gave you Scripture. (Acts 9:5) See also (Acts 26:19) "...I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" See that word 'vision'. Speaks to 'seeing'. Paul saw the resurrected Christ.

What he saw blinded him. And what he saw was Jesus.

Paul doesn't need the witnesses. Paul was never one of the 12.

Now, is Peter's writings Scritpure. If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings as Scripture? What writings do you consider Scripture. Still scared?

Stranger

 

[Danube]

I gave you Scripture. (Acts 9:5) See also (Acts 26:19) "...I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" See that word 'vision'. Speaks to 'seeing'. Paul saw the resurrected Christ.

What he saw blinded him. And what he saw was Jesus.

Paul doesn't need the witnesses. Paul was never one of the 12.

Now, is Peter's writings Scritpure. If so, why don't you believe Paul's writings as Scripture? What writings do you consider Scripture. Still scared?

Stranger

You gave me Pauls account of himself.
wow....


Next you will be saying the Lord told the 12 apostles to preach unto the gentiles.
Peter and the wolf? Pinnochio?

 

[Stranger]

You gave me Pauls account of himself.
wow....

Next you will be saying the Lord told the 12 apostles to preach unto the gentiles.
Peter and the wolf? Pinnochio?

So what, Paul's words are inspired by God.

Is Peter's words inspired by God? If so, why don't you cosider Paul's words inspired by God. What do you consider as Scripture? Scared?

You don't believe any of the Scriptures are inspired. If you did you would answer. Your scared you will be found out as a false witness wearing that Christian label by your name. But go ahead...prove me wrong.

Stranger