Can Only Mods Solve This Problem?

[Episkopos]

I have come across a new problem this weekend (well, it's new for me anyway); one that appears can only be solved by the moderators, if they so choose to. I formally invite the mods to post on this thread as well.

Here is the dilemma:

Suppose you have a member or members who post threads espousing heresy, but when their arguments are challenged they refuse to address the counter-arguments, and instead use every evasive tactic in the book. But they then turn around and continue to post thread after thread openly claiming that no one can refute their claims. Now many may know who I am referring to specifically here as having inspired me to write this thread, and some may actually side with him doctrinally, and therefore not see what he is teaching as heresy. But for the sake of argument, just suppose we are talking here about someone you DO believe teaches heresy.

See, the situation leaves the forum (and by that I mean any forum) with the following problem, and puts moderators in a difficult position. Members who can pick apart the flaws in their theology nevertheless really can't fix the problem. Such members really have only one of two choices as I see it:

1. Either continue to refute and refute and refute them all day long, every day, as if that has now become their new occupation in life (even though their posts will be almost completely ignored by the offending party), or

2. Simply allow the person to continue teaching falsehoods unchallenged, day after day. And when you are dealing with someone who boasts openly in every thread that no one can challenge or refute their claims, onlookers who view such threads continually going unchallenged may therefore be inclined to believe they actually are un-refutable.

Because membership can't fix such a problem, it forces moderators to have to make a determination themselves about whether what is taught is heresy or not, since the problem can only be solved by outside intervention from site management.

Any thoughts? I post this out of concern for saving Christian forums in general from being undermined by a rather insidious problem, but especially ours. This is a good community, and it's a problem I'm having a hard time seeing can be solved by the membership alone.

This is not an attack on the offending party in question, nor is it posted out of resentment. I'm simply coming up empty, as it is an especially tough dilemma to figure out a good solution for.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for considering the issue.
Hidden In Him

Here's the thing. This is not a church fellowship where heresy is censored or church discipline applies.

As long as the heresy doesn't break forum rules how can it be corrected?

God has ordained that the wheat and chaff grow together. That the grain and the pebbles remain in the sieve.

There is a reason for that. It is so that they who are approved of the Lord would stick out...be noticed.

So then while we are in the world there will people of different stripes in the church.

But there is coming a time where the final separation will take place. Until then we hold out a hand of invitation into the truth.

It is with faith and patience...

Heb. 6:12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

[marks]

I see numerous instances where members do not wish to engage over their views, instead prefering to smear and ridicule those who have differing viewpoints.

I've had to give serious consideration to whether or not I wanted to continue to participate in this forum considering how routine this type of thing is for some of the posters, and considering the threads which go on and on founded on what a great many Christian statements of faith would count as heresy. And I watch as sometimes it is believed, in my opinion to the detriment of the one hearing.

Not to mention the one speaking.

But I think if there is an answer to be employed, it is by a Statement of Faith requiring our agreement.

We all request membership in this forum, and we all agree to the terms. Of course, one of those is to not question another's salvation. I've lost count how many people here have done that with me, and others. Routine!

For myself, it's not a matter of fixing every thing wrong on the internet, rather, to give what I have to offer in hope that it will build the body of Christ.

I have to just follow where the Spirit is going, and let that be what it will be.

Much love!

 

[Willie T]

But is Christianity an "opinion"?
Does being a Christian mean anything anymore?

It's one thing to understand baptism differently....
It's another thing to declare we need not obey God.

Do you feel you are incapable of countering a claim like that? I read all your posts, and I KNOW you can speak the words necessary to blow that kind of frail ship right out of the water.

 

[marks]

@Hidden In Him

Hard moderating is also a problem.
Can you believe I've been banned from a forum?
I posted there exactly as I do here....but persons there
"report" you and to moderators make it easy and just give you
points. This is very unfair and I don't care for that.

We also should be able to speak our mind as long as we're not putting down anyone in a serious manner. I feel like we're all adults and should be able to handle ourselves.

I do agree with you about new Christians being helped along and not left to their own thoughts. The problem is that we all think we're right!

But who will give account to God for those misled by smooth enticing words which actually destroy faith and lead into bondage?

Certainly the speaker. And what of the purveyor?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

1) You are only speculating on what Gamaliel would say now a-days

Certainly. But I am basing that on New Testament precedent. Now the argument could be made that forums cannot be run the same way as a fellowship, but in realty they are. People get kicked off of forums or disciplined all the time, including this one, and this is a very lightly policed forum compared to others which I like and think is the way things should be. The question is, where exactly should the line be drawn?

But that’s fine, if you have different thoughts than me, you asked for thoughts, I put forth mine.

For;

Each and every person will have to stand before God and give account of themselves. But only up to the standard to which they have obtained. So you might be right, and see more, but as long as the peace of Christ in your heart is that which you are following, I wish you all good things in Christ.

Quite alright. I do approach the issue a little differently than most. My nature is more protective than most, and it's something that serves the communities I am involved in well much of the time. The question again, however, is where does one draw the line. But in this instance there is little I can do, yet I think something still needs to be done.

 

[Willie T]

But is Christianity an "opinion"?
Does being a Christian mean anything anymore?

It's one thing to understand baptism differently....
It's another thing to declare we need not obey God.

Actually, it is little more than that. (a personal opinion) It is a "belief".... NOT a "fact" we can prove to anyone.
That is exactly the way it seems God designed it to be.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you feel you are incapable of countering a claim like that? I read all your posts, and I KNOW you can speak the words necessary to blow that kind of frail ship right out of the water.

Had to give you a like for that one!
Yeah W, but it gets so tiring,,,,but I DO feel it's very necessary.

I very much agree with all you've said and also @Episkopos ...

I think we've all made good points,,,and I venture to say that there's not much to be done.

If there's a very specific statement of faith, it excludes everybody else and it become a small private club.

Must say good night...
will read tomorrow...

 

[Hidden In Him]

I do that sort of thing in almost half the posts I make. We need to reply with what "we see" as the truth.... NOT be like the mods of other forums we complain about who ban people because their posts do not align with the thinking of the majority. (Frankly, this is the exact thinking of most of the political party people today)

Well, see but that's not what I am saying take action because of. It's because the person in question violates the rules of honest discussion, refuses to address counter-arguments, but then turns around and posts new threads claiming that he cannot be refuted.

If we banned people simply for not agreeing with each other, every forum would be a complete ghost town, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Take all the "action" you want.... but do any of us have the right to tell others they cannot have an opinion that differs from ours?

Come on, Willie. You know that's not what I'm saying. It's more complicated than that.

 

[marks]

Certainly. But I am basing that on New Testament precedent. Now the argument could be made that forums cannot be run the same way as a fellowship, but in realty they are. People get kicked off of forums or disciplined all the time, including this one, and this is a very lightly policed forum compared to others which I like and think is the way things should be. The question is, where exactly should the line be drawn?


Quite alright. I do approach the issue a little differently than most. My nature is more protective than most, and it's something that serves the communities I am involved in well much of the time. The question again, however, is where does one draw the line. But in this instance there is little I can do, yet I think something still needs to be done.

I've learned that same kind of protectiveness, and in particular, over those who are less knowledgeable in the Word. Smooth words, an aura of spirituality, but doctrines departing from the way of truth, that tear down, and destroy.

The damage sometimes takes years as the claims fail the manifest, and by then, faith is made shipwreck.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

But who will give account to God for those misled by smooth enticing words which actually destroy faith and lead into bondage?

Certainly the speaker. And what of the purveyor?

Much love!

Too tired to reply...
tomorrow...

 

[Hidden In Him]

But who will give account to God for those misled by smooth enticing words which actually destroy faith and lead into bondage?

Certainly the speaker. And what of the purveyor?

Precisely. I don't approach the issue from the perspective that we ourselves bear no responsibility in the matter. In fact, I think we all do to an extent, including in how we respond to this discussion.

 

[Nancy]

I think the issue of how to determine what is heresy and what is not is a separate discussion in and of itself. In this particular situation, it would be incumbent upon the moderators themselves to determine, so it would be more important to them than to us as the membership.

Hi Hidden,
I know I need to read this forums statement of faith again...I THINK there is one,
Should that not be used here? I mean as far as "heresy" goes?
JMT's

 

[Not me]

Certainly. But I am basing that on New Testament precedent. Now the argument could be made that forums cannot be run the same way as a fellowship, but in realty they are. People get kicked off of forums or disciplined all the time, including this one, and this is a very lightly policed forum compared to others which I like and think is the way things should be. The question is, where exactly should the line be drawn?


Quite alright. I do approach the issue a little differently than most. My nature is more protective than most, and it's something that serves the communities I am involved in well much of the time. The question again, however, is where does one draw the line. But in this instance there is little I can do, yet I think something still needs to be done.

Well I do hope you find what answers your heart is looking for. Will be standing with you before God.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

Actually, it is little more than that. (a personal opinion) It is a "belief".... NOT a "fact" we can prove to anyone.
That is exactly the way it seems God designed it to be.

Hi Willie,

I have to say I disagree with this. I really do think that the reason we have the Bible is so that we all are looking at the same thing, and that it says actually one thing, not conflicting things. And we can know what that it, and if we are willing, we can do the work to reach agreement, or, we can let it ride, and just get the work done.

Much love!

 

[Willie T]

In all this, we seem to be denying The Holy Spirit His power to get through to those who want to hear.

 

[Hidden In Him]

God has ordained that the wheat and chaff grow together. That the grain and the pebbles remain in the sieve.

If they have already set in, yes. But if they have not yet set in, or if there is a way to prevent it, the command is to not let leaven leaven the whole lump.

Here's the thing. This is not a church fellowship where heresy is censored or church discipline applies.

As long as the heresy doesn't break forum rules how can it be corrected?

God has ordained that the wheat and chaff grow together. That the grain and the pebbles remain in the sieve.

There is a reason for that. It is so that they who are approved of the Lord would stick out...be noticed.

So then while we are in the world there will people of different stripes in the church.

But there is coming a time where the final separation will take place. Until then we hold out a hand of invitation into the truth.

It is with faith and patience...

Heb. 6:12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

I think in general you are taking a more freedom-loving (not the best word, but you know what I mean) approach to this issue. But again, I think others and even the forum itself can be endangered by this sort of thing, and we bear a responsibility before God in the matter.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi Hidden,
I know I need to read this forums statement of faith again...I THINK there is one,
Should that not be used here? I mean as far as "heresy" goes?
JMT's

I actually think the particular theology I am referencing here may fall between the cracks of this forum's statement of faith. The debate that precipitated this thread was over what could rightly be defined as unquestionably false teaching, but of a sort that is outside the normal parameters of what is normally termed outright "heresy."

 

[Nancy]

I actually think the particular theology I am referencing here may fall between the cracks of this forum's statement of faith. The debate that precipitated this thread was over what could rightly be defined as unquestionably false teaching, but of a sort that is outside the normal parameters of what is normally termed outright "heresy."

Ah, I see. It's most definitely hard to define the definition of HOW to define, lol.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well I do hope you find what answers your heart is looking for. Will be standing with you before God.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

I don't know what that answer is yet, but I appreciate it. I do think that the Lord can intervene Himself at times in judgment, but for one I certainly don't wish that upon anyone, and for another the Lord held believers accountable to sometimes act on things themselves rather than leaving everything up to Him taking judgment upon the offenders. I've seen preachers actually use it as a justification to teach heresy, telling their congregations, "If I teach heresy then the Lord will remove me, and replace me with someone else." That man is still leading many into heresy today, and has expanded to where he has fostered dozens upon dozens of churches in Central America who are "under his spiritual mantle."

Thanks for your posts and encouragement. I've been around, and I know when I sense something is wrong, and a spiritual danger to others.