Can Only Mods Solve This Problem?

[Not me]

I don't know what that answer is yet, but I appreciate it. I do think that the Lord can intervene Himself at times in judgment, but for one I certainly don't wish that upon anyone, and for another the Lord held believers accountable to sometimes act on things themselves rather than leaving everything up to Him taking judgment upon the offenders. I've seen preachers actually use it as a justification to teach heresy, telling their congregations, "If I teach heresy then the Lord will remove me, and replace me with someone else." That man is still leading many into heresy today, and has expanded to where he has fostered dozens upon dozens of churches in Central America who are "under his spiritual mantle."

Thanks for your posts and encouragement. I've been around, and I know when I sense something is wrong, and a spiritual danger to others.

Your welcome, and blessings as we pursue Him with all our hearts.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Mayflower]

I have come across a new problem this weekend (well, it's new for me anyway); one that appears can only be solved by the moderators, if they so choose to. I formally invite the mods to post on this thread as well.

Here is the dilemma:

Suppose you have a member or members who post threads espousing heresy, but when their arguments are challenged they refuse to address the counter-arguments, and instead use every evasive tactic in the book. But they then turn around and continue to post thread after thread openly claiming that no one can refute their claims. Now many may know who I am referring to specifically here as having inspired me to write this thread, and some may actually side with him doctrinally, and therefore not see what he is teaching as heresy. But for the sake of argument, just suppose we are talking here about someone you DO believe teaches heresy.

See, the situation leaves the forum (and by that I mean any forum) with the following problem, and puts moderators in a difficult position. Members who can pick apart the flaws in their theology nevertheless really can't fix the problem. Such members really have only one of two choices as I see it:

1. Either continue to refute and refute and refute them all day long, every day, as if that has now become their new occupation in life (even though their posts will be almost completely ignored by the offending party), or

2. Simply allow the person to continue teaching falsehoods unchallenged, day after day. And when you are dealing with someone who boasts openly in every thread that no one can challenge or refute their claims, onlookers who view such threads continually going unchallenged may therefore be inclined to believe they actually are un-refutable.

Because membership can't fix such a problem, it forces moderators to have to make a determination themselves about whether what is taught is heresy or not, since the problem can only be solved by outside intervention from site management.

Any thoughts? I post this out of concern for saving Christian forums in general from being undermined by a rather insidious problem, but especially ours. This is a good community, and it's a problem I'm having a hard time seeing can be solved by the membership alone.

This is not an attack on the offending party in question, nor is it posted out of resentment. I'm simply coming up empty, as it is an especially tough dilemma to figure out a good solution for.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for considering the issue.
Hidden In Him

I think a vote needs to be taken on what can and cannot be taught on this forum. A written out statement of faith...we need to know the "why" of coming to this board. Where is CB going. What is its mission? Guidelines for debate threads would be good also...because arguing constantly is not brotherly love.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I have come across a new problem this weekend (well, it's new for me anyway); one that appears can only be solved by the moderators, if they so choose to. I formally invite the mods to post on this thread as well.

Here is the dilemma:

Suppose you have a member or members who post threads espousing heresy, but when their arguments are challenged they refuse to address the counter-arguments, and instead use every evasive tactic in the book. But they then turn around and continue to post thread after thread openly claiming that no one can refute their claims. Now many may know who I am referring to specifically here as having inspired me to write this thread, and some may actually side with him doctrinally, and therefore not see what he is teaching as heresy. But for the sake of argument, just suppose we are talking here about someone you DO believe teaches heresy.

See, the situation leaves the forum (and by that I mean any forum) with the following problem, and puts moderators in a difficult position. Members who can pick apart the flaws in their theology nevertheless really can't fix the problem. Such members really have only one of two choices as I see it:

1. Either continue to refute and refute and refute them all day long, every day, as if that has now become their new occupation in life (even though their posts will be almost completely ignored by the offending party), or

2. Simply allow the person to continue teaching falsehoods unchallenged, day after day. And when you are dealing with someone who boasts openly in every thread that no one can challenge or refute their claims, onlookers who view such threads continually going unchallenged may therefore be inclined to believe they actually are un-refutable.

Because membership can't fix such a problem, it forces moderators to have to make a determination themselves about whether what is taught is heresy or not, since the problem can only be solved by outside intervention from site management.

Any thoughts? I post this out of concern for saving Christian forums in general from being undermined by a rather insidious problem, but especially ours. This is a good community, and it's a problem I'm having a hard time seeing can be solved by the membership alone.

This is not an attack on the offending party in question, nor is it posted out of resentment. I'm simply coming up empty, as it is an especially tough dilemma to figure out a good solution for.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for considering the issue.
Hidden In Him

Love that person. And/or place them on "ignore" if you'd like to love them from a distance. You're under no obligation to endlessly refute them and be continually ignored.

There's always going to be people out there that have false ideas-- either different interpretations of Christian beliefs, or even something downright anti-Christian. No one can stem that. We can only be windows to Christ. And at points that means speaking up, and at points that means standing silent.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think a vote needs to be taken on what can and cannot be taught on this forum. A written out statement of faith...we need to know the "why" of coming to this board. Where is CB going. What is its mission? Guidelines for debate threads would be good also...because arguing constantly is not brotherly love.

Guidelines of human behavior are always a good thing.
"Statement of Faith" requirements... *Jane shudders with flashbacks of cespool Christian Forums*

People flaming others, feeling the need to continually "prove" their point-- that's a human behavior issue, not one of faith.

 

[Willie T]

I think a vote needs to be taken on what can and cannot be taught on this forum. A written out statement of faith...we need to know the "why" of coming to this board. Where is CB going. What is its mission? Guidelines for debate threads would be good also...because arguing constantly is not brotherly love.

Firmly disagree with that kind of heavy-handed censorship.

 

[Mayflower]

Firmly disagree with that kind of heavy-handed censorship.

Well at least limited

 

[Willie T]

Well at least limited

And we, the membership, can effect that "limiting" by what we say and how we respond in our own posts.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think a vote needs to be taken on what can and cannot be taught on this forum. A written out statement of faith...we need to know the "why" of coming to this board. Where is CB going. What is its mission? Guidelines for debate threads would be good also...because arguing constantly is not brotherly love.

I honestly don't know if it can be dealt with through a statement of faith, sister... although having guidelines for "why" one comes here might do it. Those who consistently demonstrated an unwillingness to even respond to other's posts (even when the responses of multiple members were being dismissed out of hand) would demonstrate a motive that is foreign to a genuine search for the truth... I consider it akin to trolling.

And you're right. Discussing the word honestly is one thing, but any behaviors that just incite endless division and the minimizing of others will forever only generate strife.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Love that person. And/or place them on "ignore" if you'd like to love them from a distance. You're under no obligation to endlessly refute them and be continually ignored.

There's always going to be people out there that have false ideas-- either different interpretations of Christian beliefs, or even something downright anti-Christian. No one can stem that. We can only be windows to Christ. And at points that means speaking up, and at points that means standing silent.

Like I responded to others, I think you and I are approaching this issue from two entirely different perspectives. But I appreciate the response.

 

[Hidden In Him]

"Statement of Faith" requirements... *Jane shudders with flashbacks of cespool Christian Forums*

LoL. God forbid we become CF. It got so bad they are now heavily segregated from each other. Each denomination has their own forums and they generally stick to their own now. It's more peaceful now, but that's because they have fences up and they're all bleating away in their own pastures. I suppose it was the right decision, for them anyway, but we are on a different level here. It's more of a family.

I wish it could remain an issue that could be dealt with "in house," if you will, but this is something I consider to be a serious "family dispute" of sorts. I saw members get more upset today than since the first day I joined.

 

[Enoch111]

Because membership can't fix such a problem, it forces moderators to have to make a determination themselves about whether what is taught is heresy or not, since the problem can only be solved by outside intervention from site management.

You are absolutely correct. Anyone who comes along promoting heresy should be give a maximum of say five posts. After that they should be shut down. But it is up to the mods. I just ignore their rants.

 

[lforrest]

I think a vote needs to be taken on what can and cannot be taught on this forum. A written out statement of faith...we need to know the "why" of coming to this board. Where is CB going. What is its mission? Guidelines for debate threads would be good also...because arguing constantly is not brotherly love.

There is a statement of faith(SOF) for the site.
Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Each person is also given the opportunity to write their own SOF in their profile to give others an idea of what they believe. The moderator team was against taking a hard line against those who do not agree with the SOF. As it stands the SOF is only used to decide which topics to move into the unorthodox forum. This gives some means to protect seekers from heresy, when the opening post doesn't agree with the SOF. But this only works when the opening post is heretical, because we can't move individual posts there.

Many members disagree with the SOF, such as our stance on the Trinity and grace doctrine.
We have a statement regarding the Trinity, that is an example of how we have dealt with hot button issues in the past. But perhaps one is also needed for the grace doctrine.
Statement on the Trinity

People join the site with an axe to grind, and you can't be sure of it from the start. Nether can we do anything about it until they actually break the rules. Some topics are going on for 80 plus pages, you can be sure that 99% of what needs to be said was said in the first three pages. But that isn't the point of such long topics, you know the last person to post wins the argument, right.

 

[Mayflower]

There is a statement of faith(SOF) for the site.
Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Each person is also given the opportunity to write their own SOF in their profile to give others an idea of what they believe. The moderator team was against taking a hard line against those who do not agree with the SOF. As it stands the SOF is only used to decide which topics to move into the unorthodox forum. This gives some means to protect seekers from heresy, when the opening post doesn't agree with the SOF. But this only works when the opening post is heretical, because we can't move individual posts there.

Many members disagree with the SOF, such as our stance on the Trinity and grace doctrine.
We have a statement regarding the Trinity, that is an example of how we have dealt with hot button issues in the past. But perhaps one is also needed for the grace doctrine.
Statement on the Trinity

People join the site with an axe to grind, and you can't be sure of it from the start. Nether can we do anything about it until they actually break the rules. Some topics are going on for 80 plus pages, you can be sure that 99% of what needs to be said was said in the first three pages. But that isn't the point of such long topics, you know the last person to post wins the argument, right.

Hmmm tricky. Any way to limit debate threads to a certain number of pages? This is done with a group on facebook and it works really well.

 

[amadeus]

What Jesus taught was condemned by the entire "official" church of that day as, HERETICAL HERESY.
We'd best just heed the words of Gamaliel when he told the Sanhedrin they needed to back down. We are not God.

Indeed, if we or the moderators really could solve the problem here it would be solvable on all of planet Earth. Actually, it is solvable, but the solution is according to God's plan. We cannot fix this or anything in the world except to the extent we strive to really always be on God's side... unless He has given a special task to handle it. If He did that He would also, I believe, give us the means to accomplish it.

There is no god on the forum among the moderators, so even if they were to try and I would doubt their ability to finally fix right. This whole question is men trying to figure out how to help God. Lots of this has happened before and we have to show for it perhaps the thousands of different denominations... and so forth.

 

[amadeus]

And we, the membership, can effect that "limiting" by what we say and how we respond in our own posts.

Yes, unfortunately even people who really have a love for God sometimes allow the poor ways of others to influence their own behaviors. Two wrongs does not make a right. All of us perhaps remember the case of Moses who truly strived to follow God but allowed himself in his anger against people going their own way was himself kept out of the Promised Land.

 

[Helen]

Indeed, if we or the moderators really could solve the problem here it would be solvable on all of planet Earth. Actually, it is solvable, but the solution is according to God's plan. We cannot fix this or anything in the world except to the extent we strive to really always be on God's side... unless He has given a special task to handle it. If He did that He would also, I believe, give us the means to accomplish it.

There is no god on the forum among the moderators, so even if they were to try and I would doubt their ability to finally fix right. This whole question is men trying to figure out how to help God. Lots of this has happened before and we have to show for it perhaps the thousands of different denominations... and so forth.

Amen , wisdom indeed.

The thing is “everyone” believes that what ‘they’ believe the bible to be saying, is in fact “The Truth”.
So, who is casting the first stone here?

Who is saying- “ What and how ‘I’ believe is correct , so that brother , or that sister is in error and a heretic, “ ?... that is what got people burned at the stake.
The concept of “ We all agree, so that must make us right.”

Just ‘what if ‘ that person is actually sharing what God showed them, but we are too brainwashed and so sure of ourselves , to have one shred of a ‘maybe he/she is right”.

To be honest , half the forum membership could be banned for believing some area of error in posts......( I’m sure we often roll our eyes at each other’s posts some days) ..
because many of us do not ‘toe the company line’, or live in a neat ‘accepted biblical box.’

We may think that some one else needs shutting down....take care folks , next week it could well be your turn.

I don’t know one single person on here that in every single post, ‘I’ agree 100% with.

We all “see in part” and understand “in part”.
If a persons posts bother us, hit the ignore button and move on.

We can trust the moderators on here. And I hope we take time out to also pray for them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Indeed, if we or the moderators really could solve the problem here it would be solvable on all of planet Earth. Actually, it is solvable, but the solution is according to God's plan. We cannot fix this or anything in the world except to the extent we strive to really always be on God's side... unless He has given a special task to handle it. If He did that He would also, I believe, give us the means to accomplish it.

Actually Amadeus, I think there is a fairly simple means to accomplish it. I think people should be required to give an answer to repeated legitimate counter-arguments to their claims instead of completely ignoring those arguments and persisting to post thread after thread repeating the same indefensible arguments over and over again. If not, what they are doing is essentially just trolling, and should be considered as such by management. If they persist in it in total disregard for other members at this website, they should be dealt with in the same way trolls are dealt with. If not, we open ourselves to anyone posting absolutely any indefensible thing under the sun they wish to here (including some of the rather crude things @bbyrd009 mentioned in a thread today to illustrate the point), and we place ourselves in the position of being hypocrites if we take actions against them but not against others.

Please respond to me in this discussion. I realize that you and "ByGrace" may take the other side of the fence on the particular doctrinal issue at hand, but I want those who disagree with me responding to what I have to say instead of ignoring me like H. Richard has done repeatedly. This issue concerns me, and before anyone argues that I alone am the only one making a big issue out of this, it's not just me who was upset today. When people repeatedly get ignored, this site is already becoming what we all agree we do NOT want it to become: a click where no responsibility is felt to even give reasoned replies to people who disagree with a particular line of teaching or theology.

Blessings in Christ, and you know I mean you no offense, but your responses strike me as if you have not read through my responses in this thread and once again my arguments are not only being dismissed out of hand but I'm not even being responded to.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Actually Amadeus, I think there is a fairly simple means to accomplish it. I think people should be required to give an answer to repeated legitimate counter-arguments to their claims instead of completely ignoring those arguments and persisting to post thread after thread repeating the same indefensible arguments over and over again. If not, what they are doing is essentially just trolling, and should be considered as such by management. If they persist in it in total disregard for other members at this website, they should be dealt with in the same way trolls are dealt with.

That's asking people on the internet to not act like people on the internet. It's just unrealistic.

Or we could just not feed the trolls.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We may think that some one else needs shutting down....take care folks , next week it could well be your turn.

I don’t know one single person on here that in every single post, ‘I’ agree 100% with.

Helen, this is again skirting the issue and oversimplifying it because no one appears to be reading my posts. Like I responded to Willie, you know I would not be arguing for such a ridiculous thing as that we all have to agree on everything. What on earth makes you think I would be so daft as to argue for something like that? LoL .The issue is... Heavens, I am wearing myself out just having to repeat this so much that it's getting more and more difficult to put it down in print correctly.

Let me go find the quotes, so I don't mess it up...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Or we could just not feed the trolls.

Jane, I already responded to this argument. It will not work.