Can salvation be lost
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Amen. Salvation is by the grace of God a free irrevocable gift unto those he believed in before the foundation of the world. And haven written our names in his book of life before he created the world, we shall never perish. But shall have immortal life in him for ever.
God would have to undo all that is accomplished in making us a new creation in him that moment we believed, if we could do anything unbeknownst to Omniscience to lose our salvation.
Thankfully, there is no scripture that affirms that as possible.
For us to lose our salvation, God would need be a liar. And Jesus failed on the cross.
We can never lose what we did not labor to achieve.
God bless.
God would have to undo all that is accomplished in making us a new creation in him that moment we believed, if we could do anything unbeknownst to Omniscience to lose our salvation.
Thankfully, there is no scripture that affirms that as possible.
For us to lose our salvation, God would need be a liar. And Jesus failed on the cross.
We can never lose what we did not labor to achieve.
God bless.
thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
Yes it can be. I always recall the scripture of 'Not everyone who says to me Lord, lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven', something along those lines
I believe that is referring to nominal, name only, Christians.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
No I recall the scripture says 'My sheep hear my voice and follow me. No one can snatch them out of my hand.'
thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.… John 10-27
But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.… John 10-27
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Yes, that would one part would be in verse 27 preceding verses 28 & 29 that I'd already posted.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Hi, Charity.
The video you shared is heavy laden with quotes from Romans, which was written primarily to address Jewish Christians present amongst the congregation at Rome (See Romans 2:17-24). Thus, when Paul discusses "works" in this letter, he is talking specifically about works of the law, such as keeping the cleanliness laws, the ceremonial laws, the Jews feasts, the Sabbaths, etc. Most Christians are agreed these things will not effect matters of salvation if they are not kept, but to say these verses are talking about not keeping the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments and still being able to make it to Heaven are a fallacy. You cannot disregard the commandment to love the Lord your God with your whole heart and still make Heaven. He must take first place in your heart or you are worshiping another god instead of Him, and you make yourself unworthy of the salvation He offers.
I could go into more detail on other passages if you would like. It might make an interesting discussion.... at least up until everyone and their grandmother invades this thread and things get out of hand like they usually do on this topic.
God bless,
Hidden
I don't think anyone at all keeps those commandments as they would have to be kept, if that were what determined our acceptability to God. Since God is completely holy, and, without holiness, no one will see God, I have to ask, who loves God with all their heart at all times?
Love for God supplants everything else, and of itself flows unbidden from our hearts to all who are around us. When we have absolute love for God alone. This is what I believe.
But our acceptability by God isn't determined our performance, or how fully we can grow in love for God and others. I believe our acceptability is determined by, "he believed God, and God counted it to him for righteousness". Jesus' righteousness, and after that, Jesus comes in, our rebirth, our justification.
The real child of God will grow in love for God and others, but not as a matter of keeping the commandments, rather, because we were born from the God Who Is Love, and He is raising us that way.
Moses in the Law, and the Father in the Gospels, they both say, Listen to Jesus. Do what He says. Jesus says, here are your 2 commandments. Trust Jesus, and love others.
I don't believe there will be anyone in the Eternal Kingdom who does not fully and completely love God, and love everyone else. I believe we are already that way deep inside, in the new man, but over-identification with our flesh fools us into thinking we still are in trouble with God. That turns us aside, instead of just walking in the full assurance of faith. When we walk in that assurance of faith, the Spirit of Christ is living through us. As we identify with Christ, we blossom into His light, His life.
Much love!
April_Rose
Well-Known Member
That depends on how the question is being asked. If the question is will God take away our salvation then the answer is no. However, if the question is can we ourselves take away our salvation by turning our backs on Him then I think the answer is yes.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
In the strictest sense, I'm guessing not many. But then who always keeps the second commandant without fail? James bemoaned the fact that many of those he was writing to were not keeping that perfectly either. But the question becomes, do we keep it? A child that obeys his father on a regular basis yet fails in one place is simply a child who has to be dealt with on that issue alone, but he could rightly still be called an obedient child. Likewise, those who regularly live their lives observing the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments could be said to be keeping them, even should they fail on certain occasions and in certain instances regardless.
Not if we only do so in theory, but not in practice. This is not an issue we simply take "on faith" if there is no corresponding action in reality.
Our acceptability is not in question. Nor is salvation. Obedience is what is in question.
For me, nothing in my life is intended to keep the Law given through Moses to Israel.
For me, my primary intention, my one big thing to do, is, remain settled in my mind that God loves me, and has redeemed me, He owns me, has forgiven me, the first and foremost and #1 thing, trust Him! Fall into His arms and let Him carry me.
Knowing His love is the greatest thing there is, There is God, the Great One, and His love, knowing His love, let's just say anything else I do in this world is worthless, at least to me, anything that's not an expression of His love. Love is His way, and trusting Him naturally leads in a course of greater love.
I could focus on my behaviors which fall short, and compare them to Law, and endeavor to correct them according to Law. What I do is focus on my behaviors which fall short, and compare them to love, and I endeavor to correct them according to love. Law is easier, but actually works against us. Love is harder at first, I think, but becomes easier, and so much much better, as that is who we are, being born of the One Who Is Love.
Much love!
Of course NOTHING happens that is only in theory and not in practice. Like saying, You're not doing it if you aren't doing it.
Both in my Bible reading, and in my experience in life, I find that the more settled we are concerning our acceptability to God, the more consistently we walk in the Spirit. The obedience of which you speak.
I know, people become afraid, "IF you tell them they are forgiven, they will just utterly paganize themselves!" But I find, in knowing I'm forgiven, I feel free to be with the God Who's come to live inside me.
I like what @soul man wrote recently, something like, Christianity is about two becoming one. I think he nailed it! It's in that relationship where we find everything works the way it should.
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
But we are talking about the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments as laid down by the Lord. They were not merely given through Moses to Israel. They were given through our Lord to the church. Or don't you agree?
Trust Him? Me as well, but after this there is letting Him do His work of conforming us to His image, which for you I think may be less relevant to the question of salvation than I do. As stated, a normally obedient child who has trouble in a few areas is a child trying to conform himself to the image his father wants him to. But a child who no longer seeks to conform to his father's image, or walk in obedience to Him is now on shaky ground, IMO, no matter how he may see himself. The prodigal was not welcomed back with his pigs in tow. He was welcomed back because the father could see he was leaving the pigs behind in returning home.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
This much we agree on.
For some like yourselves I think this is true, Mark, but for many others I think it is not. There are many out there who instead of being motivated to do good by such a concept use it as an excuse to do whatever they please, thinking God will now overlook it because they are "forgiven." This is where I think you need to make a distinction.
1 Timothy 4:1 (NKJV)
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
On this point, I'd jump over to one of the chastisement threads. God will train us, and if He has to use the grievous ways, He will, and it will be effective upon us.
Afterward DO COME the peaceable fruits of righteousness. Not more righteousness, the fruits of righteousness.
Much love!
I daresay he was welcomed back because he was a son. Besides, he wouldn't have been allowed to keep the pigs, I would think. I wonder what he smelled like?
Much love!
