Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Faith without works is dead.
Correct. Or wallow in the mud with them (2 Peter 2:22). Which is my driving point.
Can salvation be lost
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Faith without works is dead.
Correct. Or wallow in the mud with them (2 Peter 2:22). Which is my driving point.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There is a literary style that is of this time period that most cannot grasp. I say most because it is has been 2000 years and it has caused most of the confusion that resulted in all of these denominations. I am working on a presentation for that.
But the simplest, concept is that salvation is solid as a rock for your average Christian. Your average Christian will sin and Grace will cover that. And those sins are between them and Christ.
But your average Christian is not going to be LGBTQ.
Your average Christian is not going to make a life out of drugs.
Your average Christian is not going to be an abortion doctor or staff.
Your average Christian is not going to be a serial killer.
Your average Christian is not gong to be a child molester.
Your average Christian is not going to get involved with the occult.
For Christians, sinful lifestyles hold the most potential for a path to hell. And there are those that take the side that if you can live a sinful lifestyle....that you were not saved to begin with. Of if you can do the most evil of sins that you were not saved to begin with.
I am on the fence on this, it is possible for some of the cases.
But the simplest, concept is that salvation is solid as a rock for your average Christian. Your average Christian will sin and Grace will cover that. And those sins are between them and Christ.
But your average Christian is not going to be LGBTQ.
Your average Christian is not going to make a life out of drugs.
Your average Christian is not going to be an abortion doctor or staff.
Your average Christian is not going to be a serial killer.
Your average Christian is not gong to be a child molester.
Your average Christian is not going to get involved with the occult.
For Christians, sinful lifestyles hold the most potential for a path to hell. And there are those that take the side that if you can live a sinful lifestyle....that you were not saved to begin with. Of if you can do the most evil of sins that you were not saved to begin with.
I am on the fence on this, it is possible for some of the cases.
I wonder if you misunderstand me.
Romans 5:1-2 teach that we are at peace with God, being justified by faith in Jesus Christ. And that by this same faith, we have access into the grace in which we stand.
Romans 7 talks about the Law, that it produces "the motions of sin in our members". How the commandment incites disobedience to it. That's how the flesh responds to God's Law. That's one of the reasons God gave the Law, to increase sin. Paul wrote to Timothy that the Law was given for the ungodly, the sinner.
Serving Law works against us, because it inflames our flesh.
Serving Love is who we are born to be, and circumvents our flesh, instead, rather than things we are doing, we are just sharing what God is doing. When we are loving others we are not sinning, because we are loving.
Much love!
No, because he didn't own them. So of course he didn't bring them home when he returned. I think we're getting afield of what the story was about.Correct. Or wallow in the mud with them (2 Peter 2:22). Which is my driving point.
Much love!
If I could've lost my salvation, then I would've. Thank You, Lord, that You are the author and finisher of my faith, by which I am saved!
I'm a happy camper!
While I do not watch videos, this should help people understand what salvation is:
The Bible does not leave us in the dark about this critical issue. Here is what we find in Romans 3:21-26 (KJB):
21 But now the righteousness of God without the Law is manifested, being witnessed by The Law and The Prophets; [the entire Old Testament]
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
What do we learn from this passage?
1. The keeping of the Law (the Law of Moses under the Old Covenant) cannot make anyone as righteous as God (which is what He demands).
2. The entire Tanakh (the Old Testament) testifies to this fact.
3. It is only by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that a sinner may be declared righteous (justified).
4. All humans beings have sinned, and all need redemption.
5. God therefore justifies FREELY BY HIS GRACE those who put their faith in Christ, and the blood He shed for our sins on Calvary.
6. God Himself made Christ the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Which means that Christ as the Lamb of God was the perfect and complete sacrifice for all the sins of the world.
7. It is the sacrifice of Christ that makes it possible for God to forgive or remit the sins of the one who calls upon the name of the Lord to be saved.
8. Thus God declares His own righteousness and also declares the believer as being righteous (justified) in His sight. Thus also God is just and the Justifier of the ungodly.
9. Since the penalty for sins has been paid in full, God offers His grace, pardon, and redemption to those who are His enemies.
10. But those who have been saved by grace are commanded to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-14).
This is where we need to teach the church what it means to walk by faith, instead of what we see.
For me, I'm not talking in terms of what motivates us. Motivation, those things we think about to impell us to try to make better choices, and to be more determined to carry them out . . .
I'm talking about surrendering in trust to the Lord, resting in Him, and allowing Him to live through me. I'm not trying to keep commandments, I'm trying be family.
Faith expressed through love.
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Mark, I'm not misunderstanding you. This whole post suggests you are not fully understanding me.
I'm not talking about Mosaic Law.
Define the statement for me in your own terms, and maybe we can see where our definitions differ. For me, the statement "faith without works is dead" means that if someone does not walk in obedience to Jesus as Lord, they do not have anything resembling true faith in Him, because His word clearly says that those who give themselves to sinful lifestyles while supposedly "believing" in Him will not inherit eternal life.
One does not need to own pigs in order to wallow in mud with them.
True rebirth makes you a different person. What you may call "faith", if it doesn't make you different, James calls that faith "dead". It didn't "do" anything (double entendre intended).
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Yes, and I am talking about the multitudes of others who subscribe to a theology similar to yours, but which they use as an excuse to practice sin.
You see, they can't make that same mistake with my theology because I give no leeway to sin in it. I know you feel that yours doesn't either, but what I am trying to tell you is that many out there very well misconstrue what you teach because it unfortunately lends itself a little too much in that direction, IMO. You ARE in fact talking about motivation as being the heart of what makes your system work. The problem is that the same theology can be applied to simply subscribe to easy-believism or hyper-grace. And yes, I know you don't teach either of those things, but as I continually try to show to you, your doctrinal statements often run dreadfully close to both, and leave the door open for "misunderstandings," as you describe them.
Mark, I'm not misunderstanding you. This whole post suggests you are not fully understanding me.
I'm not talking about Mosaic Law.
Perhaps I misunderstood . . . It figured you had in mind the lawyer who asked Jesus the greatest commandment, and threw in the 2nd as well. Jesus answered him from the Law, which I feel certain was what he had been asking about.
No?
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
... make you different... see, but that statement can be interpreted in many ways, Mark. I don't think James intended the meaning to be "make you different so that you see yourself as a new person." Look at the context of the passage. True faith as he was describing it didn't just make you view yourself differently in the generic sense. It caused you to engage in good works, such as feeding the poor and hungry instead of sending them off with nothing by telling them, "Be warned and filled." (James 2:16).
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I always found the other brother to be more interesting, all his self proclaimed good works yet he never received as much as a calf.
Because someone twists the true, I'm not going to change what I believe the Bible teaches.
Law does not produce new creation life. Love does.
There is so much more to this than the light surface scratches we always seem to get stalled in.
Much love!
No . . . I've not said something like this.
This guts the meaning of what I wrote.
Much love!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I always wondered why his brother didn’t share in his joy that his brother had returned, instead he was indignant.
